I almost don't knead mine at all anyway because letting it rise twice in the bowl pretty well takes care of things.

This recipe sounds like sourdough but instead of making a sponge and then adding to it, they just make it all in one step. I like breads that have very few ingredients. This will probably be very good because of the natural yeast working in the loaf, but I'm not that patient and rarely do I know 18 hours ahead of time that I am going to bake bread. You'll have to be more organized than I am to do this one. LOL

Barbara,

Welcome to the revolution. Jim Lahey's bread has been all over the internet and all over America since this article appeared in November of 2006. It has been discussed, debated, improved upon, tinkered with, etc. Other professional bread bakers and cookbook authors have thrown in their two cents' worth about how to improve it. It has been blogged about endlessly. LOL You can google it and read about it for days.

When "Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes A Day" was published, which I think was in 2007, some fans of the Lahey recipe that Bittman wrote about complained that the 5-minute bread was inferior to Lahey's. However, others liked it better. I do think the 5 minute method is more foolproof and easier to do over a period of days/weeks. Also, the original 5 minute book and website offer oodles of recipes for different recipes and variations of those recipes. I like the 5 minute bread more, although it takes longer than 5 minutes on the day you make the initial batch to keep in your refrigerator. I haven't tried any recipes from the newer "Healthy Bread In 5 Minutes A Day" book yet, but I do intend to.

If you make the Lahey recipe, you may (or may not---some folks do, some folks don't) have a bit of trouble with its stickiness. I like the 5-minute bread's book authors' recommendation of using a pizza peel for easy handling and a pizza stone for cooking. Parchment paper can be used too, as can the nonstick aluminum foil to make it easier to transfer the shaped loaf to the pizza stone.

One drawback to making the five-minute bread is that the container of bread dough does take up a lot of space in the fridge, but there are worse problems to have. The advantage, though, is that it is quick and easy to pull off a hunk of dough, shape it and bake it at the drop of a hat.

On Beth's bread thread, I linked the Mother Earth News article from last winter because it has several of the 5-minute artisan bread recipes.

As with so many other things in life, there's many ways to make bread and I like a lot of them, and am not married to any of them. : )

Dawn

I'm with you Dawn. Sometimes I want one kind, and sometimes another. I love using a pizza stone, but I let my bread rise on the parchment paper then transfer the entire thing to the hot stone. Much less mess than the peel and cornmeal method. Remember I'm the one that always has a shortcut. LOL

I have to read that other thread. But this one got my attention. Thanks for posting! My father and I are both into bread making and he was just telling me about this. Now I don't have to go looking for the recipe.

George

Now I am just SO embarressed to have even posted that link, and feel so "behind the times". My only excuse is that I was working and spent little time reading up on either cooking or gardening stuff or anything else for that matter.
Well, I'm BACK, LOL! Better late than never.

Thanks for the heads up on the 5 min bread, and also the use of the parchment on pizza stone. I'm wondering though how it would keep from burning at high temps, and if any of y'all have ever used it for thin crust pizza dough, which can really be a bear with a pizza peel.

The reason I ask is that I usually bake my pizza dough first at at least 450F and after a bit, when it's slightly browned on the bottom, and stiffened up a little, let it cool and then fill it with whatever, then back in the oven to finish.

My no knead bread dough is starting to be all nice and puffy there on the kitchen counter this morning. Oh the magic of flour, water, pince of yeast and salt!

Learn something new everyday. Keep on teaching gals and guys, I'm listening :)

Barbara

Barbara,

Oh, don't be embarassed. I just wanted to bring you up to speed on developments since 2006 so you could catch up before 2010 rolled around! No point in working on refining the recipe and technique when everyone else has been working on that for a few years now. A lot of people got really irritated with the stickiness of the dough after Bittman published the recipe, so the later recommendations to use parchment paper, a pizza peel or nonstick aluminum foil were helpful to some extent when handling the dough--especially after the 5 minute artisan bread became such a hit. Also, some people put their Le Crueset pans in the oven without removing the little knob things, and that was a big mistake too. : )

If you followed along on all the internet chatter/book reviews/forum discussions and such after the 5-minute bread book came out, you'd see that certain people were incredibly 'attached to' the Lahey/Bittman recipe and resented the 5-minute book, and others felt both missed the boat and that only more traditional forms of breadbaking were correct. It is amusing because I just don't think breadbaking techniques are life-or-death or worth arguing over, but some people do. I think all the methods have merits and everyone should just do what works for them, and the experimentation to figure out what works best in one's own circumstances helps keep life interesting.

I remember making stromboli in the 1980s for a baby shower at work and using purchased frozen bread dough and feeling guilty for using it (instead of fresh, homemade dough), only to find my co-workers incredulous that a working mother would take the time to thaw frozen bread dough and use it to make something, because that was more effort than they were going to make. LOL I bet some of my former co-workers who once thought frozen bread dough was too much trouble are now on-board with making their own bread completely from scratch. Times change.

You don't use the parchment on the stone itself. You form your dough on a pizza peel, or on an upside down baking sheet or cutting board covered with parchment paper or the nonstick aluminum foil. You preheat your pizza stone. Then, you open the oven door, slide your bread dough or pizza crust from the peel/parchment/foil, etc. onto the stone and cook it.

The hottest temperature I've ever used parchment paper with is probably 375 or 400 degrees, so I am not sure how it actually functions at higher temps, and I don't have a package handy so I can check to see what the box says. I've been out of parchment paper for a while now and keep forgetting to buy it at the store. Making a list doesn't help because I forget the list. LOL

I guess this winter while it is too cold to do much garden work, except for the planning and dreaming and such, we all can work on refining our breadmaking techniques....or cheesemaking or yogurt making or whatever else strikes our fancy during the 'off-season' for gardening.

Dawn

Yep Barb, You understood right. I do slide the entire loaf with the parchment under onto the pizza stone and I usually bake at 425. My box says 420 but I haven't had any trouble at 425 or even a little higher except the paper darkens a little. Maybe it is just my oven.

I make pizza crust in a pizza pan and I pre-cook the dough before I add the toppings. I sometimes take it out of the pan and cook it on the stone, after the pre-cook, but not always. I can hear that bag of pepperoni calling me from the refrigerator as I type. I have at least six or seven types of cheese right now but forgot to buy mozzarello.

Check out the website www.thefreshloaf.com. I've been active in the forums for several months and my bread has improved dramatically. Especially of interest is the "french fold" technique. It's a way of developing the gluten in very wet and sticky doughs without adding more flour, using a mixer, or resorting to dreaded kneading. You can search for the term on the website and there is also a video available on www.gourmet.com, wherein Richard Bertinet explains the technique in detail. It's well worth your time. I love talking bread!

-Matt

Matt...
You are my kind of guy! You remind me of my gourmet son who knows his way around the kitchen and then some.
Loved that link and will be studying it more, including the fold technique you mentioned.

Dawn...
You are absolutely right about the 5 min loaf technique. After studying this a bit, I realized I had already been doing this for years, (minus the nuances) from a Mediterranean cookbook I used as a bible, til my DS tossed the cookbook while cleaning, (grrr).

Simply, the author said you could keep your pizza dough in the fridge overnight or for several days. I would always yank the leftover dough out and make a loaf with it which turned out fine. But the 5 min loaf explains the finer points of bread making in detail and lists all the varietions so skillfully.

This should take my breadmaking skills to a whole new level!

As mentioned in the link you posted from Mother Earth News, what I can do with a bit of the leftover dough from tonight's batch of No Knead Bread, is to use it as a starter for the new and improved 5 min loaf technique, since it should already have that fermented sourdough quality I love so much.

And....Ok, I won't worry about being "embarressed". A little humbling is good for the soul.

Oh, and Dawn, I use Always Save frozen white bread dough all the time for my nutritionally challenged DS because he prefers soft, insipid bread. At least it doesn't have preservatives in it. I have used the Rhodes wheat dough and it does make a tasty wheat loaf that rises nicely and is foolproof. Just a tad too sweet for my liking.

Soonergrandmom...
I think the parchment will probably hold up as you say to at least 425. That's hot enough!

I have silicone cookie sheets that go to 400 but unfortunately they are not big enough for a full guy sized pizza.

My son is going to LOVE this..!! Dawn is right. Now that the big push in gardening season is over, we can turn our attention to other fun things, like baking and cheesemaking.

I am looking over some cheese making ingredients for mozzarella and others and trying to decide the best and least expensive online place to order.

One of the things I am looking for is a source of dried Buffalo milk. There may not be such a thing, but I think there is a place over near Carol that raises Water Buffalo and sells the milk. Probably in quantities to cheese making companies tho. :(

Well, thanks all for renewing my inspiration. In lieu of wheat berries and a grinder, I'll be on my way to town soon to buy tons of unbleached and wheat flour. Just think of the money saved and you don't have to pay 6 bucks for a loaf of "artisan bread".

Barbara

We're all gonna be full of bread and cheese or yogurt before this winter is up! LOL! I've been looking at making yogurt... but that project will probly have to wait untill after the holidays.

Barbara, if you make some mozz succesfully let us know! I've seen it made on t.v., that seems like a neat project to get into.

I'm caught up on my housework and DH has taken youngest DS to his grandparents for the afternoon... oldest DS is going out with his friends after school. Momma is gonna spend the afternoon making bread and peach pie! LOL! Great fun for a friday night! ;)

Beth

Beth
Peach pie, omg, you guys are killing me!! Now I'm craving peach pie, LOL! This forum may end up being as fattening as the Paula Deen show!

Barbara

When I was reading an earlier post I was going to post this, but didn't. When I was making bread dough today, I remembered.

Although I mix dough in a bowl, I put it in a tall one gallon pitcher to put in the refrigerator. It takes up much less room that way because the footprint is smaller. I have tried just to mix it in that container but it is too hard, so I just dirty an extra bowl. I would never be able to find room in my refrigerator for a big bowl that would stay there as much as I make bread.

OK Barbara, here is another one to make you hungry. I always think about this one when the weather starts getting cool for some reason. I make pineapple upside cake in a cast iron skillet, I do the bottom the normal way with sliced pinapple, pecans, brown sugar, etc. Then instead of cake, I make gingerbread. It is to die for. LOL Now tell me your not hungry!!

Carol...
Ok, so I'm HUNGRY!! LOL! I like that idea, and the tall pitcher idea too. I'm going to have to get some very large containers, like a food grade 5 gallon bucket with lid just to store my flour in. Dang it, I want some wheat berries!!

I had the DS pick up lots of unbleached flour at the local Walmart, plus more parchment paper.

Then I've been over on Matt's fresh loaf website hanging out with the pizza gods, and getting tips. I LOVED the one about making 10 to 20 thin pizza dough shells and freezing them with parchment in between, til used. He's a chef and he's tried this method. Swears the frozen dough makes a better thin crust than fresh dough. Tomorrow I am starting the process to see if he's right. We love good pizza around our house!

As you can probably tell, like you and the other gals we always have to be doing something to entertain ourselves, (and our loved ones), either in the garden or kitchen.

Tonight, just for the DS, it's Rachel Ray's Sloppy Joe recipe, with oven fries. I know, I know, it comes under the catagory of kid's food, but he likes it and I may have to have one too.
Barbara

I have tried buying flour in bulk but it didn't work so well for me. Instead, I keep several extra 5-lb bags in the extra refrigerator. One full shelf of that refrigerator is usually filled with all purpose flour, self rising flour, corn meal and dates. Sams usually has dates for the holidays but not other times, so I buy heavy. One veggie drawer has the yeast. I only grind wheat flour when I am ready to use it, but if I didn't have a grain mill, I would keep the extra frozen until I needed it. White flour will last about 2 years before it smells yucky, but whole wheat will not last that long because of the bran. It lasts forever if not ground.

Carol
The first Jim Lahey's no knead recipe turned out okay. I shoulda watched the YouTube video first. The bad part on my first try was part of the dough stuck to the towel and sort of drooled into the hot crock pot, even though I hadn't used terry cloth and had floured it well with cornmeal. It rose like crazy anyway while baking.

I think one of the limitations with his method is you don't have the option to make an "artisan" shape. Also, Lahey's oven temp is not hot enough IMO.

Right now I have a "5 min loaf" of Cimbalta in the oven on the stone set at broil, lol! My stove is gas. Last night it was a 5 min pizza set on broil. I think that particular 5 min loaf pizza recipe needs some work. or maybe another dough altogether. I like thin crust. And I found a good website for that purpose.

Anyways, once I get a new obsession to sink my teeth into I can't let go until I've shot the curl.
Now, I'm looking for an online source for a good sourdough starter, as well as nagging my DS to build me a brick fired oven. He HATES it when I do this, LOL! Actually, I am now convinced that if you have a thermometer to control temp, and a gas stove, you don't need a brick oven.

Another thing, for those who have a self cleaning oven, it can be fixed, (altered) to "safely" replicate the temperatures of a brick oven and really, that's all one needs to achieve a brick oven artisan bread, or proper pizza crust is a temperature of from 700 to 825 degrees and know how to prepare and control the starter and the dough for baking.

These old fashioned Hearth and brick oven breads really do make store bought breads seem insipid.

I WILL get my wheat berries, one way or another. I do have some white winter wheat growing on my place. Sounds like a lot of work but when the food supply gets scarce, I'll have some good seed and it won't be from Monsanto. Carol, I will NEVER forget that post you made on here about those folks standing in line for food.

Thanks Carol and all,

Barbara

I cook bread in my regular electric oven, or a dutch oven outside, the fireplace, or.... it's not too picky and there are a hundred things to try. When I make artisan type breads I use a recipe without any oil at all. I have a tiny little metal pan that will sit in the front of my oven between the heat coils. I fill that pan with ice cubes to create extra steam, and as I said before, I wet my hands and pat the loaf all over to make sure there is no dry flour on the surface.

When I make loaf bread, I make a softer bread which uses oil. I don't wet the top so it usually has flour on it. As soon as I take it out of the oven, I rub the top with a stick of butter which melts on contact and makes the top shiny. Everyone probably has their own special way to do it.

Barbara,
Guess, I'm with you. I never heard of this guy or the method!! I only make homemade bread once or twice a year and it's quite a todo so I don't mind making it the old fashioned way. I have never owned a bread making machine either. The people at work told me they liked it so much they were making 2 loafs a day and gained 40 lbs and had to get rid of it. LOL. I can just see me having hot homemade bread, lots of butter and homemade jam. yummmmmm. Oh heck, I just had some. LOL!!!

Barbara - have you checked out the Oklahoma Food Coop? http://www.oklahomafood.coop/ One of their producers offers hard red and hard white wheat berries. I think you have to join the coop to buy, but you can look around the site without being a member. You might check it out. Lots of cool stuff. It's only around $55 to join, and that's a one-time fee.
Carol
BTW - thanks for the info on the 5-minute bread. I generally make a loaf of whole-wheat, finished off with bread flour every week, but definitely want to try their method. I let my starter go last year, but my brother's bringing me some of his at Thanksgiving, so I'll be back in business. WooHoo!

cjlambert- You can always make a new starter and by the next day you can start using it. On one of the 5 min bread sites someone said they didn't wash out their container when they took out the last batch, but immediately made a new batch in the same container. That way you would be getting a "somewhat" sourdough effect. I have a little sourdough crock that I keep in my refrigerator for sourdough. Sometimes it gets pretty strong because I don't use it much. My DH likes sourdough pancakes sometimes tho.

Long before I saw any of these recipes, I had been keeping my bread dough in the refrigerator. After the children were grown, I didn't need to bake much at one time. DH and I are so spoiled that we only like it fresh.

Barbara, How much wheat are you planning to buy?

Okay, I tried this no knead method and made a very nice loaf of bread this evening. Jerreth agrees that it had the best crust of any bread we've ever made. Thanks for the heads up on this Barbara. My dad had mentioned this to me a while ago. But I needed another little push to look it up and give it a try.

By the way, if anyone wants to start a sourdough culture, it's really easy. Just let a cup of milk sour for 24 hours. Then mix it with one cup of flour and leave it open to the air, occasionally mixing, until some bubbles start forming. Once you notice bubbles, just add another cup of flour and water, mix, let sit for half a day, and you're ready to go. Jerreth and I have done sourdough since we first met, back in 1977.

George

I made bread yesterday. I wanted to try the Wheat Montana flour I bought at Byler's. I modified my Honey, Oatmeal and Wheat recipe by using the raw sugar and I used milk instead of water. They turned out nicely and we loved the color and flavor. I used 50/50 AP and the Prairie Gold flours. It toasted great this morning.

FYI: I read somewhere that you should trim the excess parchment paper off so it won't burn.

Talk about taking shortcuts or the easy way... I do my first mixing in the KA then add the rest of the flour by hand, dump on board, knead then oil the original mixer bowl without cleaning it out, turn the kneaded dough to oil it and let it raise.

gldno1, that's beautiful bread! Makes me hungry.

This afternoon I started my first batch of 5-minute bread. I didn't have 6 cups of AP flour, so I used two cups of hard white whole wheat (which we generally use anyway) and 1 cup of bread flour along with the AP. It's rising well, and, since I don't need bread right now, will wait a couple of days to bake.

If this works, it will make my life a lot simpler.

Well, we've made at least four batches of this no knead bread. It's really GOOD! Yesterday morning we turned out our first batch of no knead sourdough bread. It came out very well. I suspected, however, that when they said that one only has to use a 1/4 cup of sourdough starter instead of a 1/4 teaspoon of instant yeast (no mention of baking soda), for this bread, that they were using "fake sourdough." "Fake sourdough," is simply a yeast culture, used like sourdough, but which started with packaged yeast. "Real sourdough" starts out as a "captured yeast culture," without any commercial yeast added. It tends to be stronger than packaged yeast. So, when we did our sourdough no knead bread, we added 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda to the batter. It worked. I might even try 1/3 teaspoon of baking soda, since our sourdough was, well... a little sour. Still, it's good enough that I have to be careful not to eat too much!

The beauty of the no knead method is that one can through it together in less than 10 minutes. Let sit for at least 18 hours (I have let it sit 24 hours) and then there's less than five minutes of work before a 1 1/2 hour rise and one pops it in the oven. 45 minutes after that presto! One has a really crispy tasty bread, very much like a good French bread. It's very little work, but one does need to time things.

George

This weekend I am going to make the chocolate bread from the 5-Minute Artisan Bread book. I love bread, and I love chocolate, so I cannot imagine this recipe won't be a winner as well.

I like having dough in the fridge and ready to go.

George, I have noticed that the longer the dough sits in the fridge, the more sour it gets.....not that it is likely the dough will sit in the fridge for too many days! I do love sourdough bread, but you know, there is a point where it can get almost too sour. LOL

Dawn

I made my first loaf this morning, and it came together so fast, even though I had worked in some raisins & cinnamon/sugar. Rose well, and baked up nice and with a crunchy crust. The directions called for 'about a cup' of hot water added when the bread goes in, but it all boiled off so I'll be using more water next time. May not have made much difference to the bread, but our good old hard water left deposits I had to scrub out. grrrrr

Anyway, thanks a bunch; this is a keeper. I'm anxious to try the sourdough, too.
Carol