I plant old seeds every year with good germination. Unless it got extremely hot I wouldn't be concerned. One way to get an idea is too put 2-3 seeds of a variety in a little potting soil/germination mix in a cup inside your house and see if they germinate. Be cheaper than buying a bunch of new seeds. Because I would imagine they are good. If germination is a little low you can always plant 2 seeds where you would plant two and them thin those that germinate double. Jay.

Many seeds will keep for several years. The most notable exception is okra. Okra seed is very short lived unless frozen. If it were me, I would get out the paper towels and do some germination tests. I usually soak the seed overnight, pour them through a screen to get rid of the water and then roll in paper towels in sandwich bags. Check every day for sprouting. I like to test 4 or 5 at a time or even 10 if there are a lot.

How resilient are seeds in heat? Gardens alive had a huge seed clearance last summer, so I ordered about 10 different veggies. They've been packed away in the fridge since I received them, but they sat in my black mailbox in 105 degree heat for several hours first before I got home. Hopefully they'll still sprout!

I might add onions to mulberry's okra post, but otherwise I would guess they will be OK.

Miraje,
I'd recommend you try a germination test on those seeds. Mailboxes in summer heat are notorious for cooking seeds. But test them, as described above. You never know. It's worth testing.

Also, lettuce and parsnips are noted for short shelf lives. They say parsnips only last a year and lettuce, at most, two. I've had decent germination with parsnips at two years and lettuce, perhaps at three.

Under normal household temperatures I generally figure that seeds will last as follows:

squash - ten years
beans - four years
carrots - three years
corn - at least five years. I've heard of 20.
okra - I have grown it at four years on the shelf. But this doesn't mean that it will always work.
tomatoes - five years, easy.
cowpeas - six years, for sure. I once planted some Georgia Long, which is a yard long bean, at 12 years of age, stored in a garage and then in my bedroom. Germination was over 90%.

One disclaimer: for reasons I don't understand I have also have seeds expire in much less time than mentioned above. So, when one is getting out "on the edge" a germination test is prudent.

George
Tahlequah, OK

Like George stated a germination test is basically the only way to get a good idea whether they will or not. I store my seeds rather hap hazard much of the time and overall have good shelf life on my seeds. Overall my experience with varieties has been similar to the time frames gave by George. I've had lettuce germinate well that was 3 years old and then had fresh seeds that had poor germination. Many factors enter in. How they were saved I feel influence their shelf life a lot. I also think our dry humidity here helps. I have never froze a seed yet. But once in a while I'll have seeds that germinate poorly for no explainable reason. Then I was sent a bunch of older seeds last year as the person felt I would have trouble with germination. Planted 20 of them and had 100%. So you never know. I have germinated tomato seeds that was 15 years old with no special treatment and then had to use a clorox soak on year old seeds to get any to germinate. I've had at least 50% germination on okra seed that was 5-7 years old. So without a germination test you really don't know. And you can use what ever method works for you. I just use a cup and germinate them like I start all of my seeds. Others use the wet towel method. For some reason I've never had good results using it. Not sure why. Jay

My dad died in 1999. He stopped gardening four or five years before that. He left a jar of field peas in the freezer. I planted them two years ago. I planted a few, and totally thinking the wouldn't grow, I just kind of flung the rest of them around (I usually have no luck sowing seeds). They grew like crazy. The great pea takeover.

Just thought I would throw this out there. This spring,during the seed buying frenzie,someone posted a website that carried alot of different kinds of pepper seeds. I went to that website and was reading their recommendation on how to raise their seed and was amazed that they did'nt recommend using peat pellots or any type peat mix because they believed the PH caused certain types of peppers not to germinate. They did'nt say all peppers but said they shied away from peat just to be sure.Last spring I started afew jalapenos in peat pellots and most of my bells in coir because that was all I had left.All of the ones planted in coir came up and grew like crazy but 3 out of 8 of the jalapenos did'nt come up at all nor did they prosper and start to grow til I repotted them in larger cups filled with coir. My tomatoes did'nt seem to mind either type of soil. I guess its something to think about.

you guys are great. i love this site.

"They grew like crazy. The great pea takeover."

Betty,

Freezer storage adds a whole new dimension to seed storage. Back in 2006 I grew squash and tomatoes from seed which had been frozen since 1985. Germination was as good as if the seed had been produced in 2005. I've heard estimates that such seeds are good for at least 40 years in frozen storage. I don't know how they came up with that figure.

Here's another interesting anecdote. Back in February 2006 I was teaching a module at a Bible Institute in Hidalgo Mexico, and one of my students handed me a bag of pepper seeds. They were of Chile Rayado, a Jalape�o type raised in a certain area of the Sierra Madre Oriental. I had been looking for this seed for probably a decade. Anyway I've grown and saved this seed every year since. Last year I dug up the original bag of seed and did a germination test, five years after receiving it. The seed germinated as if it were new. Yet on other occasions I've had pepper seed show a marked decrease in germination rates at only 3 years.

George

telow, I stumbled on to that pepper website last week, it was so interesting. I didn't even realize they are perennials in the right conditions. I have a lot to learn about peppers.

George, that is a great story! This will be my first year to grow peppers from seed. I've ordered some Tam Jalapeno and Fish Pepper from Baker Creek. Yes I admit I chose the Fish pepper because it is pretty

I grow dozens of peppers every year and I find that they germinate just about like everything else except I have had trouble more than once with two kinds, Red Marconi and Odessa Market Peppers. The OMP could be a seed problem, but I have planted from more than one pack of Red Marconi and it either doesn't germinate or produces a weak plant. I have wonderful Yellow Marconi every year and it's one of my favorites.

This year I had several hot pepper plants that were just too slow for me. The pack said 100 days, but that didn't happen, so I will watch that in the future.

Hot peppers and chile peppers like warmth. Many of the sweet peppers will germinate and also grow in cooler temps. That means soil and air temps. I hardly ever have any trouble with pepper germination. Did on seeds of 1-2 varieties 2 years ago I think. And one of them was Red Marconi. But last year with seeds from a different source I had over 90% germination and the plants did well. On the chile/hot peppers I either use a heat pad under the trays or if just one tray I germinate it in the bathroom. I have had good results both ways. When I get some of my other projects finished I'm going to build a germination chamber for peppers ect in an old fridge. I've seen it done and it works well. The man used light bulbs for heat and installed a thermostat that would shut off if it got too warm and turn on when the temps dropped. At least that is the plan. In my opinion the 2 crops that can be set back and stunted the worst by cool soil and air temps are okra and chile/hot peppers. With the cool temps we have of morning here in the spring a person either needs to wait till late May or use some type of protection over them. I learned that from the chile growers in NM. Many of you may not have the cool morning temps and then the warm days. Usually my soil temps are sufficient to plant peppers long before the morning air temps are. Jay

My nightime low temps are just like Jay's. I could plant peppers in the ground much earlier than I do if I based my plantings on soil temps and daytime highs, but those nighttime lows are the issue. By planting hot pepper plants in the ground later than I used to plant them just a few years ago, I'm actually harvesting mature peppers earlier than in past years because the plants no longer are exposed to cool overnight lows that cause them to stunt and stall.

I also find much more success with coir than with peat. I've never been crazy about peat-based mixes anyway, and hae been using coir mixes more and more the last 2 or 3 years.

You asked about flower seeds also. Most ornamentals, and especially natives, store for a very long time. I had several seeds, not even stored under proper conditions, that I "discovered a couple years ago. I decided to give them a whirl. I don't even use the germination test. 1) Not enough space to do so 2) it's easier to just toss them in a pot and see if they will grow. Sometimes we make gardening so detailed and difficult, and I find that cutting a few steps here and there simplifies what doesn't have to be complex and frustrating. I'm into making things as easy as possible. Could be I'm just getting old, too. At the hospital the other day, a lady called me "elderly" and I wanted to cry, lol!

Anyway, nearly all the seed germinated and it was about 7 years old. They were various seeds of native plants, the only one I recall was Button Bush, or Cephalanthus occidentalis.

Think about weed seeds, for example. If I turn over new ground there are always seeds that have been dormant that will then germinate - too much, too often IMHO! I've also had seeds lie dormant of flowers, such as Gomphrena and Catnip. I had a Catnip germinate last year that I had planted over 5 years ago, and it had reseeded. The seeds remained dormant until I turned the soil last year. Voila! Catnip plants!

If you want to test your seeds, go ahead. I'm just sayin' you don't have to if you don't want to. They'll likely grow in either situation. Testing just gives you an idea of the percent of germination you might expect.

That said, there are seeds of certain plants that will only germinate if they are "fresh" seeds, e.g., Passiflora, Aristolochia, Valerian, Arisaema, Colocasia and Alocasia, Hellebore, a number of woodland plants, and many others I'm sure. Lotus seeds will remain viable for centuries.

Proper storage of seeds will extend their life, no doubt, and there are varying opinions on the net about the length of time seeds will remain viable under ideal conditions. There is really only one way to know if your seeds are viable, and that's to plant them. I bet you'll be surprised!

Susan

Susan, I'm noticing they throw around that 'elderly' word a lot more. I hate to see them waste it on us 'young-uns', don't you?

The one thing I don't like about planting without doing a germination test (on older seed) is that I might get right down to that window of time, in which I REALLY want to start that plant, plant it, and ... find out that it doesn't grow and I have to wait a couple of weeks in order to obtain new seed. So, if it's older seed, and you don't have a back up to start at the same, or nearly the same time, and it's important to you that it grow,... it's probably worth the time to do a germination test.

Susan, I know the feeling. I was referred to as "an old guy," last year, and it totally shocked me! But then, while purchasing something in a convenience store, I spotted a white haired fellow on the closed circuit TV, and was surprised when I realized it was me!

George

Carol elderly is just one of the words I hear frequently at work. When you've been there 37 plus years I guess it can be expected. I told them that they should be ashamed when the "old man" does more work than a teeny bopper. LOL.

George I agree. I do on anything that I won't have extra plants or seeds of. Many times on old tomato seeds I receive I may only receive 4-5 seeds. So in that case I just wait. On corn, okra, ect if I don't have extra then I do a germination test.

Jay, I know what you mean by us "older folks" doing more work than the teeny boppers! I worked for the government for many years and the older employees had a stronger work ethic (among other things) than the younger generations. We took off less time from work, applied ourselves to the job at hand, and realized that we were getting paid for the job we did rather than socializing around the office. I was often the target of resentment for getting more awards and bonuses than the "young uns" - hmmmmm, I wonder why?

I understand why germination testing is important with veggies, more than anything else, when you are working within a tight planting schedule. Since I grow few veggies, if any at all, it is not as important for me to test Zinnias for example. I should have made it more clear that I was addressing flowers in my response.

Carol and Max - you guys are tooooooo funny!

Susan

Hey folks,

I just ran a germination test on some 1996 Georgia Long Cowpea (yardlong) which has been stored at room temperature (often without air conditioning). I got 8% germination!

My wife's grandfather passed this exact jar of seed to me, the last year he gardened, and asked me to keep it going. He passed away in 2002.

George

I've been doing a germination test also on the seeds that I ordered last summer. So far so good! I'm 100% germination on nearly all of them except the black seeded simpson lettuce (80%), the evergreen bunching onions (60% so far), and the sweet peppers (0%...:/). Do sweet peppers absolutely have to have light to germinate? The only other thing I can figure (besides them all actually being duds) is that I'm not keeping them warm enough. The tomatoes and squash sprouted just fine, though.

Miraje - keep those pepper seeds warm for a few more days. In my experience, the peppers take 3 to 5 days longer to germinate than tomatoes.

Miraje, I agree with Paula that peppers tend to be a little slower than many other veggies to germinate at average room temperature. I've never read anywhere that they need light to germinate. Usually when that is the case, the seed packet will tell you to sow on the surface and barely press the seed into the soil-less mix, or soil if you are direct seeding into the ground.

What peppers do need is heat. Up to a point, the warmer the temperature of the soil-less mix or soil, the faster peppers will germinate. If I sow seeds into a flat and put it in a cool, unheated location, the peppers are very slow to germinate and might take up to two weeks, or with habaneros maybe even three weeks. If I sow those same varieties into a flat and put it in a warmer room, or especially if I put the seedling heat mat under the flat, they'll sprout in 3 to 10 days. The average is about 7 or 8 days.

Years ago, Tom Clothier conducted extensive seed germination tests and established a database in which his results can be found. I'll find in and link it below. When you look at it, you can see the correlation between soil temperature and both the percentage of seeds that germinated and the speed (or lack of such) with which they sprouted.

I'll link the vegetable page of his germination database below.
Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Tom Clothier's Germination/Temperature Chart

It's probably been about 10 days since I first started the test, so by Tom's chart I should probably wait a few more days. I tried to find a warm spot for them, but our fridge doesn't seem to give off much heat and husband tends to keep the thermostat much lower in the wintertime than normal people would (mid 60s). I might need to move the bag to the windowsill to get the greenhouse effect working for me. :)