As I sit here and read and reread the post I start to scratch my head too. When I first read it I thought like Memo that this was someone trying to corral or put limits on what we post. I hope that this isn't the intent, Like GGG I hope that it is going to be a friendly place without limits. I read the link about veggie/victory gardens, and no where could I see anything about potager in the article at all. I think that so far all the articles have been on topic and going under the appropriate heading. I think that as we go along that the topics will change as we start planting gardens, growing and harvesting.

A internet search found this under the helpfulgardener.com as to definition of potager

"Another popular style is potager, which mixes flowers in together with herbs and vegetables in an ornamental fashion so that the garden is both functional and ascetically pleasing."

So as we go along and grow as a forum group I think that flowers, herbs, veggies, design, harvest, and form will all be areas that will be discussed.

Stacie , who understands what memo is talking about, and hopes no one's toes get stepped on.

"Stacie , who understands what memo is talking about, and hopes no one's toes get stepped on."
Then can you explain it to me, Stacie? I'm still not seeing it. While I agree that Diane's linked article doesn't specifically delineate a "very ornamental" vegetable garden, it doesn't look to me like she's trying to tell everyone that we can only talk about ornamental fences.

Some seem to be ignoring large parts of posts like this one of mine: "IMHO, the Potager Forum needs to have threads talking about birdhouses, arbors and cut flowers mixed in with plenty threads about squash vine borers, corn tasselling and whether peppers cross when planted next to each other ~ light on the flowers and heavy on the veggies. In other words, just like it seems to be headed now ~ threads about composting and raised beds amongst threads about ornamental fencing and pictures of your garden." How is this trying to put limits on anyone?

I'm trying not to be offended by others being offended, but I'm starting to get my feelings hurt a bit that people are reading things into my posts that I certainly did not say ~ seeing maliciousness and exclusivity where absolutely none was intended.

Thanks CampCreek. As you wrote, I was simply trying to help those who had asked for further clarification. I spent a couple of hours reading articles online about "potager" gardening and settled on the one I linked to because I thought it most appropriate for today's gardeners wishing to garden in this manner, while still allowing for diversity in design, etc.

As for my words "watering down," I meant that I hoped that the original purpose of the forum, to discuss and share ideas about ornamental vegetable gardening, would not be so redefined that it became just another vegie forum. I was reflecting more on the future of the forum and not on anything that had previously been posted.

As for potager being mentioned in the article, here is a quote: "Even flowers, a frequently overlooked feature of the kitchen garden, can contribute culinary variety as well as go a long way to turning a potentially prosaic and practical horticultural space into a potager of notable beauty. In my own garden, I grow the 10 or so herbs I use most as well as an assortment of annuals for cutting during the spring, summer and fall. That way, each trip I take to the kitchen garden supplies me with not only the comfort of fruit and flavors for the meal, but a cheerful bouquet for the house as well -- surely a substantial inducement to include a kitchen garden in your gardening plans this year."

Instead of reading false intent into my post - "someone trying to corral or put limits on what we post" - how about examining why you came to this forum in the first place. Wasn't it to learn about potager gardening? And doesn't that knowledge usually come from those who have actual experience with this type of gardening?

Furthermore, I would offer that if anyone feels restricted by the definitions stated on this forum, then perhaps this isn't your style of gardening after all. And instead of trying to change it to suit your needs, why not just find another forum that your style is more suited to.

Diana

Here's my two cents worth....
When I found out about this forum I was excited because I love the potager style of gardening. I love to grow vegetable, fruits, flowers and herbs in a formal but decorative manner. The potager style fits me. While gardening this way, I also need to learn about growing each type of plant, what to do about pests and diseases and what plants grow well together. So I am hoping that this forum will be filled with people who like to garden in this style but will also answer questions about function as well as style!

Angelcub (Diana) I can see why a few folks are offended by what you write. When anyone writes 'I hope this forum doesn't get watered down' and 'if anyone feels restricted by the definitions......why not find another forum' it sounds as if you are the one in charge of defining who and what can be posted. Not very welcoming at all.

I love the Cottage Forum and I'm so happy about this one. Am I a *strict* keeper of a cottage or a potager garden? No. But I'm growing as a gardener and learning more and more every day. Those elements are increasing in my gardens. If we get in a snit because someone posts something we think is off topic, we run the risk of having those newbies plow up their gardens and install concrete.

Please let the forum grow and become a wonderful, joyful place it is destined to become.

Just my two cents...your mileage may vary.

Happy

Campcreek,

I think what I mean is summed up by happy. By saying that you " hope it doesn't get watered down" and about looking for another forum. Made me kinda feel like a little kid:)I felt a bit like I was being told that this forum was for those serious about potager, even though by looking up and researching potagers, it seems that anything can be in a potager.

That being said, I think that we should all remember that we are all human, and what ever is happening in our own lives, that time of the month (for me at least) and how we infer what is being typed, affect how we may perceive things. So for me it is dropped and let us focus on the gardens and see what the season brings and the continued growth of the forum.

Stacie who is just a crabby mom of a 2 yr old and baby, who wants to play outside;)

For me, it's not dropped. People are saying I said things I never did. The posts are still right up there ~ read them if you don't believe me. I feel like I got a bad rap here and don't much like it.

I was trying to be nice and just express my hopes that this forum doesn't turn into "just another veggie gardening forum", like some I've seen that started out as a neat place we could talk about pretty birdbaths and having a bench in your veggie garden and ended up with so many "function before form" veggie gardeners posting that questions like "What can I put at my entry gate to jazz it up?" never got any answers. What's wrong with saying I'd hate to see this forum go down that road? I specifically stated I'd like it to stay just like it seems to be going now, so you'd think people would see that I wasn't aiming anything bad at any of the posts here now.

I also don't like that I'm getting blamed for things I didn't say. For instance, Stacie, I did NOT say that anyone could look for another forum if they "didn't like it". That was Diane and was posted AFTER so many took offense, so that point is moot.

Happy, again ~ the "find another forum if you don't fit in" was said AFTER people took offense. I think Diane meant that if people aren't gardening in a potager, then maybe the Potager Forum isn't the place for them. Seems logical to me. And she even put it civilly, even when getting heat for the nice things she said above (nice things, complete with smilies and attempts at heading off trouble at the pass by explaining herself in a nice way).

Why are some so sensitive that they look for things to feel bad about? Why not look for things to feel good about? Why not give everyone the benefit of the doubt (of which there is a LARGE one here)? I'd SURELY hate this forum to continue to include people second guessing my posts and getting offended by my opinions, even when I'm agreeing with them. If that's what I wanted, I'd go to FreeRepublic.com or the new "Hot Topics" forum for it. I tried all day to drop this and just go back to posting like normal, but this completely blindsided me ~ I surely wasn't expecting to get heat for simply posting that I hope the Potager Forum stayed just like it is, as a forum about potagers. And the blindsided feeling is sticking around. I don't know how to get rid of it except explain myself to you Stacie, as well as Memo, Harper and Happy until y'all see it. But I have a sinking feeling that I'm just going to have to deal with it.

Sorry kids, I think this whole thread is beyond silly. Get out in the fresh air, stick you hands in the dirt, and let it go.

Campcreek,

I wanted to email you but couldn't so I'll repost what I said at the end of my prior post

That being said, I think that we should all remember that we are all human, and what ever is happening in our own lives, that time of the month (for me at least) and how we infer what is being typed, affect how we may perceive things. So for me it is dropped and let us focus on the gardens and see what the season brings and the continued growth of the forum.

Stacie who is just a crabby mom of a 2 yr old and baby, who wants to play outside;)

What I meant by the up above response is....I am not upset, sometimes what we read and what was meant by someone is misunderstood, no matter how kindly it is said . The bad thing about the internet and posts and forums, is that it is just something we type, I can't see your emotions, your gestures , nonverbal language and so forth. Plus like I said, sometimes it is just that time of the month or we just read what was typed wrong.

I know that I can be crabby and things are taken the wrong way...with 2 little girls and money tight sometimes I see and read things that are not meant to be:)

So be happy and know that I am not upset, just a tired and crabby mommy;)

Stacie

Personally, I came to this forum to see what it was all about, not necessarily to be taught what is/ is not acceptable to those that think they know it all.

Becky

I kinda liked this "article" link (really a book description) a tad better. FWIW, I lived next to France for a decade in Switzerland and the Swiss also tend potagers. My own garden, while tiny has dwarf and espallier fruit trees, grapes trained along a fence, trellis for vines, cages for tomatoes scattered about and in between I squeeze in the herbs, greens and veggies. There are edible flowers, flowers for fragrance like Brugmansia, Michelia, tazetta daffodils, jasmine, night-blooming cestrum, tuberose and jasmine. But I also can't resist certain colorful foliage like cannas, iris, etc. I feed my son's pet rodents, two parrots, a lot of wild animals and sometimes get a little for my tummy out there but always a feast for my soul.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Potager

Oooo lists. I like lists. Cool link.

I'm a pretty thick skinned person but in all honesty
I'm a little fearful of posting in this site. I may
accidentally water something down after-all I'm new
to the potager site, I was hoping to learn.

What this site desperaty needs is a "Before posting a
question, please check the FAQ" in the heading
like the other sites have. People can be politely
asked/advised to read up on potager gardens before
they post questions or comments.

Edna

I have added the links to my favorites, thanks Angelcub & Greenwitch.

Becky

I have a potager that is lovely to me and to all who see it. But as yet, it has no fence, and I have not really decided if I want to actually fence it. I think I would rather give it the illusion of being fenced, corraled, set apart, than put in another fence to chop up my property more than it is already.

I like the idea of fencing with espaliered plants.

It is ornamental. Also functional. I grow many plants that I would never eat myself, such as broccoli and Brussel sprouts. They will never cross my lips, but I will cook the broccoli for my husband. Others are invited to harvest the Brussels sprouts. I grow them because I like to watch the way they grow.

I have artichokes growing, beautiful, architectural plants that produce the wonderful fruit. Right next to the artichokes, I grow Cardoon, which looks almost identical, but does not produce the fruit. I am thinking a border or artichokes and cardoon could make a handsome barrier/border for my potager.

My husband doesn't want to fence the garden. We have only a half acre and it has to give us everything. My husband has a wood and metal shop, as well as a little mechanical shop to keep our machinery running. We have 2 big greenhouses, built from all recycled material. A large back yard that is fenced provides exercise room and security for our dog- children. Also in the back yard, we have an outdoor kitchen, a lathe house with the hot tub, and a big pond.

We are remodeling the house, and I am trying to keep the flower gardening in borders until we get the porches as we want them and all the doors installed where we want them. When we remodel, WE REMODEL EVERYTHING! LOL

Right now, the potager, potting bench/area, and greenhouses cover the whole north side of the property. It backs up to our neighbor's property, and we do have a 4' chain link fence between us. We could take that fence out and replace it, but I have found it useful for growing roses and flowering vines.

Flowers abound in my potager, as well as herbs and vegetables. We garden year around here on the Texas Gulf Coast, both a blessing and a curse. I am never out of 'Gardening Mode'.

Are we allowed to post pictures here? I would love to show you what my potager looks like now.

Janie

I don't think there is the danger of this becoming a veggie dominated forum.
It seems we are all interested in the ornamental aspect as well.
I am hoping to discuss all aspects of the potager whether it is fencing, soil/compost, veggies, herbs, flowers, companion planting, junk/decorations, materials used for paths, raised beds or not, how'd you build them, what do you grow, looking at pictures....blah blah blah...Basically every aspect that goes into creating, growing, decorating and maintaining a potager. I don't think they all need to look exactly the same and I don't think that was implied. How boring would that be? I think originality is most interesting. I don't think anyone is saying you need a picket fence to call your garden a potager. Show us what YOU do. I would love to see them (then steal..uh borrow your wonderful ideas, lol)

It seems that this is what it has been about so far and I LOVE IT!!!!

Janie, lots of ways to divide areas. Maybe bean or peas tepees or better..sweet pea tepees in a line for an edge. (I think I may do that)A bamboo fence is nice also. I know I saw a very open design in an old Martha mag. Very pretty.

Just my 2 cents...I love this forum and feel at home here. Lets talk gardening!! :^) Michele

Hi campcreek! Once again I must thank you for being so understanding and for trying to help explain things. And thank you for commenting on the civility of my posts. I try. : ) But after staying away for several days and then returning to find not even an attempt at an explanation from MeMo, whom I thought was a friend, but instead more posts from folks who choose not to even consider our other posts, I think your efforts are in vain. It's been my experience when reading threads that go awry such as this that other things are really at the core of many of the posts.

Maybe some are in a bad mood or having "that time of the month." Who knows? I personally think that is a deplorable excuse for bad behavior. My only advice is this - don't post. Like harper said, "Get out in the fresh air, stick you hands in the dirt, and let it go."

Then there are those who let the green eye of envy and jealousy rule their tongues, cyber and real. Well, this is one garden gal who doesn't intend to apologize for being able to afford a very comfortable lifestyle. That said, I should state that my DH and I come from working class families and have this lifestyle from good old American hard work and sacrifice. And in case some have forgotten, we built that picket fence ourselves. Bought every stick of wood locally and DH cut every one of those posts, rails and pickets - 150 in total. Then I put 4 coats of paint on the whole thing, two of primer, two of exterior paint. Same goes for the front, only there's about 250 pickets out there and a beautiful arbor.

And then there are the "pot stirrers," folks who just can't resist commenting on threads just to fuel the flames and see how bad they can make others feel. Very small people with even smaller hearts and souls. They could care less about explanations. Their lives are filled with daily misery and strife, largely caused by their own attitudes, but completely oblivious to the role they've chosen. They often forget that the very people they target with their rude and hateful comments have been their greatest supporters and friends. They always remind me of a very famous baseball manager whom many described like this - the only time he's happy is when he's unhappy.

So, campcreek, that's my take. I hope you can move on from this. You've been a dear to be so supportive. And to think I just met you on this forum. Well, I am going to be moving on from GW. The quality of posters has gone down considerable in the last 6-12 months. How I miss the days when I could just email Spike and all would be well again. : ( My only regret is trying so hard to get this forum. I seriously doubt any others did the same.

I hope your potager thrives and grows beyond your wildest dreams. You deserve it!

Bear Hugs,
Diana

P.S.: GGG, you are an angel on earth! I hope your potager explodes with every color of the rainbow. And when I win the lottery I'm gong to buy you that orange stove. LOL!

Diana, please send me an e-mail.

greenwitch - that was a wonderful link. Thank you! I
enjoyed the lists provided for fast fillers, edging beds,
and self sowers. Several of the plants listed I've used
as host plants for butterflies. Looks like I'll need two
potagers, one for me and one for the wildlife *LOL*.

Edna

Dear Dear Diana,

I'm sorry if you have been waiting for me to respond. I have been quite busy this week. You know, you and I have very very different lifestyles. It wasn't always that way as you know. A couple of years ago my lifestyle was pretty much exactly like the one you have today. But I gave up my beautiful five bedroom ranch and all that that life entailed for what I have now...best decision I ever made. I'll spare you all the details of what being a farm wife entails but trust me...there isn't much time left for anything else.
Why else would I be sitting here writing this note at 3:30 in the morning? Because I have just finished cooking tomorrow's dinner for the ranch hands.

Anyway, I think that the differences between us all is a great thing. It's one of the things I most enjoy about the internet. I learn so much from people like you and so many others that I have "met" on the internet. I'm always so amazed at how much we are all alike no matter how different we all are...how much we all seem to have in common no matter what the discussion is.

I regret very much my part in this thread. I didn't intend to insult you in any way. When I posted I did feel that you were insinuating that there were posts that pertained to things other than a potager garden and it was your comment about "stepping on toes" that made me feel that way. I was very embarassed in thinking that I had somehow stepped out of bounds. I can see now that I should have kept my discomfort to myself rather than trying to understand. I'll try to remember this lesson in the future.

At any rate, I'd like to applogize to you and CampCreek for any discomfort I may have caused you. I would also like to appologize to everyone else who read this thread for my part in it. I hope we can ALL go back to posting and learning about all things potager.

Now I'll say good night before it's time to start cooking the bacon ;)

MeMo

Diana,

Sorry if I offended. What I said about that time of the month, I meant that it could be that, other things going on or what ever else goes on in our lives. No where here did I see any "bad behavior" just people posting opinions or thoughts. So sorry if more was read into this than was intended. That was the purpose of my posts, that sometimes life helps in our interpretations. By no means was I attacking someone.

As for the comment "Then there are those who let the green eye of envy and jealousy rule their tongues, cyber and real. Well, this is one garden gal who doesn't intend to apologize for being able to afford a very comfortable lifestyle" I don't know where that came from. I didn't see anyone tying to put down your lifestyle. Sorry if you felt that way by any of the postings.

All I wanted to say was that sometimes people may read into a posting or just read it wrong. I apologize for any one who may feel hurt, but all I wanted to do was say, we are all human and sometimes life colors our outlook on posts or how we read them.

Now bowing out with a lighter heart,

Stacie

Anytime someone leaves a forum it is a loss. A loss of their knowledge, their perspective and their accomplishments.

Diana's artistry and talent in not only gardening, but also in home decorating and quilting, are well known. Her sense of humor ( Catarina Carrot!) and positive, supportive attitude towards everyone's projects and endeavors never failed.

What is particularly sad is that she championed the cause of creating this forum in the first place.

As mentioned earlier, the loss of a member is always sad, but in this case we have lost a talented, supportive gardener.....and MUCH more importantly, the loss of a good friend.

Marilyn

I'm obviously new to this group, although not to gardening. I don't understand how anything said in this thread warrants a member leaving the group. I'd venture a guess that some of you brought baggage from your former gathering places. Maybe it would have been a better idea to leave it at the gate. I hope y'all can work it out.

Harper

Hello all,

For me as far as when I said bowing out I meant out of this posting. As far as I am concerned that this post was interpreted in our own ways and should be over. I posted a couple of times trying to get this across, but some think I was stiring the kettle. So I am done with this crazy post, looking foreward to learning about potagers:)

Stacie

The GardenWeb has lost a great friend and contributor. I don't know of anyone more supportive, friendly, and encouraging to EVERYONE! Never did she even harbor the thought of anyone's exclusion from any thread, post or forum. Some lost the best friend they had here and should be ashamed.

I for one would be deeply sad to see you leave Diana.
Since 2004 I have read your posts, seen pic's of your
beautiful home, gardens, potager and Abby (whom I adore).
You are a very talented woman and you have been an
inspiration to me. The very first rose I ever bought was
one that you had recommend, the Westey. The very first
cyber hug I ever received was from you.

I am grateful that you pioneered this new site. I was
hoping to learn more from you and Campcreek. I am in the
process of building my potager this weekend. I have the
area roto-tilled and DH is building wood framed raised
beds tomorrow.

You and Campcreek are a wealth of experience and
information, it would be a loss to all of us and new comers
if you were to leave.

I must say I was taken back when you explained how many
coats of paint you did to paint your fence. I've been in
process of painting mine and it's hard work ! I'm doing it
by hand and I figured two coats would be sufficiant but
now I'm thinking maybe not??? Did you use a
sprayer or hand paint?

Please don't leave ;-)

((((BIG HUGS TO YOU))))
Edna

I for one would be deeply sad to see you leave Diana.
Since 2004 I have read your posts, seen pic's of your
beautiful home, gardens, potager and Abby (whom I adore).
You are a very talented woman and you have been an
inspiration to me. The very first rose I ever bought was
one that you had recommend, the Westey. The very first
cyber hug I ever received was from you.

I am grateful that you pioneered this new site. I was
hoping to learn more from you and Campcreek. I am in the
process of building my potager this weekend. I have the
area roto-tilled and DH is building wood framed raised
beds tomorrow.

You and Campcreek are a wealth of experience and
information, it would be a loss to all of us and new comers
if you were to leave.

I must say I was taken back when you explained how many
coats of paint you did to paint your fence. I've been in
process of painting mine and it's hard work ! I'm doing it
by hand and I figured two coats would be sufficiant but
now I'm thinking maybe not??? Did you use a
sprayer or hand paint?

Please don't leave ;-)

((((BIG HUGS TO YOU))))
Edna

Good Morning All,

I have a very heavy heart over this thread. I'm not sure exactly what I said that has caused Diana to leave all of Garden Web.

I asked if the fencing was the issue because everything else we had discussed up to that point, was then and is now, available on other forums. I wanted to know in her opinion just exactly what was being discussed that would change the focus of this form and make it just another vegetable forum and was it some of my posts that should be taken to one of the other forums? I said that I was never going to have a picket fence because I not only didn't want one...totally impractical in my environment and not available to boot...because I live in farm country where we don't even have access to that sort of thing. My question was is a picket fence or fencing of some type required to be part of this forum? Cuz that isn't goin to happen in my garden.

In re-reading the few posts that were on this forum at the time it was the only thing that I could come up with that was not available on another Garden Web forum. How was that an attack on her lifestyle and what did it have to do with how much money she has or how hard she works?

I think Diana's garden and her entire yard and home are beautiful. I am very happy for her that she has a wonderful husband who does the sorts of things for her that are important to her. I consider it one of lifes best blessings to have a mate who loves and respects you. Not everyone finds that in life. Am I envious? Not at all. I have a fiance who treats me equally as well and I feel very lucky and blessed to have him in my life. Do I long to have the "things" she has? Not at all. My lifestyle is completely different from hers. As I said earlier I had a lifestyle very much like hers and it just wasn't my personal cup of tea. We measure our success in a very different way out here on the plains. Mostly we consider surviving the elements and having a successful crop to rank up there with success.

I still don't understand what any of this has to do with potager gardening. I don't understand what her fear was about this turning into just another vegetable gardening forum. We are all growing similar things. We all want it to look beautiful. We will all go about it in different ways. I love to garden and it is very much a challenge for me. I have access to seeds only in my area and the weather challenges my attempts to make them grow on both a large scale and a small one. I have to order any plants or trees or herbs from far away sources. No one else around me even plants flowers for goodness sake.

I sincerely hoped that I found the right place for me on this forum. I wanted to learn and share with all of you about the very things that the forum statement says this forum is all about. You know...why can't I get rhubarb or lavendar to take in this climate? I really wanted to understand what it was that was going awry in Diana's opinion becuase I do like her and I respect her as a gardener. I also share her love of quilting and decorating. We are far more alike than we are different. I really felt when I posted on this thread that I was out of place here and I felt very uncomfortable about that. I was simply trying to understand.

I feel awful that Diana has decided to leave this forum and worse that she is leaving Garden Web entirely. I don't know what I said that would make her abandon all her friends on all of Garden Web. I also feel terrible that since this thread started, people have stopped posting. I don't know how to correct what has happened. I do feel like it is my fault since most of Diana's posts were directed towards me.

I can garden all alone. I am quite used to it. I can find all the info I need all over the internet. It doesn't matter one fig to my family how I plant my garden as long as they can grab a cucumber to much on when they come in from the fields. And as long as we have pickles and salsa when it's all said and done. I will leave this forum and I hope that when I go all of you can let this thread drop to the bottom and fall off. I sincerley hope Diana that you return to this forum once I am gone and continue to post and help others to be the kind of gardeners they wish to be.

Please people, go back to posting. Let this go.

MeMo

Am I right in assuming that all of you know each other from other GW forums?

I'm as confused now as I was in my first post (#6) on this thread. Things seem to have gone from silly to absurd. Nothing posted on this thread warrants a person leaving, although I did find the comment about "pot stirrers (and) small people with even smaller hearts and souls" to be out of line.

Let it go ladies!

Harper

This is the silliest thing I have seen. Who wants to post on a forum where people are bickering at each other over nothing at all. We are all adults here. Get over yourself and come back and lets talk gardening. It takes a big person to swallow their pride and forget this nonsense. And as far as what is posted, thats all it is, nonsense. Everyone misunderstood everyone else and I think bystanders reading the posts can clearly see that.

Harper:
Many of us know each other from the Cottage garden forum, where in the past we have discussed ornamental kitchen gardens in the English tradition, and last year began discussing potagers.
I will very sadly miss Diana if she leaves GW. We lost a dear friend Dawn already this year.
I have made many dear gardening friends at GW. They are just two. Memo, gurley, and dear Edna are others, and I'm getting to know gardeningwithbaby thru her posts...and of course the rest of you.
So far I think that aside from this one problem, the forum has been going very nicely. There have been great discussions, descriptions, a few photos. So many forums here at GW consist of many threads of short posts. Here they are a bit longer with more information, you truely feel like you are "talking" to someone, having a real conversation.
How about we let this thread rest, and begin something new and much more uplifting and useful for us all.

GGG

Oh, no! I got busy for a week and when I come back some of us are gone! First of all, I want to apologize if any of my posts came across as melodramatic or nasty or anything remotely like that. I do have a straightforward way of talking and did try to temper it. I hope I was able to.

Nextly, I hope Diana and Memo both come back. I know I'll be firing off emails to them right after I get done with this.

I do agree with those of you who said this was a big misunderstanding. I don't agree with the ones who said "get over it", atleast not 'til the feathers are un-ruffled, because if we don't un-ruffle those feathers now, that hostility will still be there, just under the surface, waiting to pop up and spoil someone's day. So to try again to un-ruffle...

I accept everyone's apology and hope y'all accept mine. I also am grateful for the sweet things some of you have said about me as well ~ thank you for un-ruffling my ruffled feathers. ;) Diana, please don't leave! I don't think all is lost yet. You did a wonderful thing in calling for this forum for us ~ please don't leave before you can enjoy it. And Memo, let me try to help explain so you can understand. This obviously bothers you and that bothers me, and maybe I can help? I mean nothing other than good with this ~ I promise. :)

"I asked if the fencing was the issue because everything else we had discussed up to that point, was then and is now, available on other forums." It wasn't about us discussing things that were or weren't available as other forums. Honestly, it wasn't.

"I wanted to know in her opinion just exactly what was being discussed that would change the focus of this form and make it just another vegetable forum and was it some of my posts that should be taken to one of the other forums?" I think I can speak for Diana when I say that the reason we posted what we did about hoping this forum didn't get watered down had nothing to do with what had been posted here already. It had everything to do with simply hoping that in the future it didn't get "taken over" by purely vegetable talk, leaving no room for talk about birdbaths, trellises, etc. Like I said in my last post above: "I was trying to ... express my hopes that this forum doesn't turn into "just another veggie gardening forum", like some I've seen that started out as a neat place we could talk about pretty birdbaths and having a bench in your veggie garden and ended up with so many "function before form" veggie gardeners posting that questions like "What can I put at my entry gate to jazz it up?" never got any answers." Noestly, that's all it was ~ nothing aimed at you or anything you or anyone else was posting.

"I don't understand what her fear was about this turning into just another vegetable gardening forum." Maybe, like me, she'd found other "potager" forums that turned into just "form before function" vegetable gardening with no room for "pretty" without being laughed at. Or maybe, again like me, she'd found a "potager" forum that turned into nothing but talk about flowers. I know I've been disheartened before when I spent time at other forums and they either moved sooooo sloooooow or turned into one thing or the other, instead of a mix of it all. I'd LOVE a mix of it all, and that's what I think everyone here wants, too. That certaily seems to be what the forum's for. :)

"I really wanted to understand what it was that was going awry in Diana's opinion becuase I do like her and I respect her as a gardener." I think this was the entire problem, Memo ~ nothing was going awry, but you got worried that there was something wrong. Diana was simply expressing her hope that it wouldn't in the future, as was I, and trying to help all the people who had asked "what is a potager" on other threads. Again, neither she nor I were aiming ANYTHING at anyone who was posting anything. We didn't have any gripes or anything about anyone or any post.

"I really felt when I posted on this thread that I was out of place here and I felt very uncomfortable about that. I was simply trying to understand." And I think this added to the problem ~ you felt out of place, but neither Diana nor I were trying to make you feel that way at all. We had no control over that. Diana even tried to avoid that by making the comment of "not stepping on anyone's toes" ~ she was trying to tell everyone that she wasn't singling anyone out or being upset over anything that had been posted.

We weren't aiming anything at you at all. I promise. But maybe your fear that you "did something wrong" led you to maybe post a bit heatedly instead of simply asking, "Hey, are y'all saying we shouldn't talk about this or that? Or are y'all saying you just hope it doesn't come to that?" Maybe your feelings simply got in the way of thinking clearly about this ~ maybe? That's not a horrible thing ~ we all do it from time to time. But please see now that we didn't mean any kind of offense to you. None at all. And maybe next time you can maybe give us the benefit of any doubt there may be? Please? :)

Peace? Truce? :)

Now I'm off to see if I can get you and Diana both back here. :)

Well, crap. Diana doesn't have any way to get ahold of her through her member page. Please, Diana, don't leave. If you don't want to post here, atleast please email me at linda1 (that's the numeral "one" at the end) at campcreektexas.com. I was just getting to know you (and Memo, too). I'd like to get to know you more.

Linda

I also wanted to email Diana and could not get her address. Diana, please come back!!! You are a great gardener and person and I miss your postings.

Adriene

Linda,

Thank you for the post. I am glad to see you back. I too had a hard time trying to get ahold of Diana by email. Just to let you know, We can't email you thru your member page either:) I wanted to apologize to you and Diana and try and make amends and understanding but couldn't email you.

Stacie

((((GROUP HUG))))

I sincerely apologize for my last post. My hurt turned to anger and I wrote things I normally would not even think of anyone. So I am just as guilty of making assumptions and being rude, as I accused others. Please forgive my bad behavior. I assure you all I will do better in the future.

And I'm sorry about my page. I had been redoing things and cleaning up my PB albums in anticipation of the coming year's pics, which I hope will be as nice as last year's. Then when I got my feelings hurt I deleted the whole thing. My email is dmfurtak@verizon.net. I will try and fix things when I get more time. Right now I am looking into a .mac account. I'm a long time Mac gal and want to learn how to make my own page (or whatever it's called - see, I have a LOT to learn).

(((Group Hug))) Now I hope we let this thing float away into the oblivion it deserves.

Bear Hugs, Diana

((Group Hug from me, too)) DIANA! You're BACK!! *Dancing a jig!* Now we just need Memo back here...

Stacie, thanks for letting me know about that ~ I had no idea! I'll go fix it now. :)

"(((Group Hug))) Now I hope we let this thing float away into the oblivion it deserves." I couldn't agree more.

Welcome back!!!

Hi Diana - Sooooo happy your back . . .now on to business
;-) because I REALLY need to know . . . did you use a
sprayer or hand paint? My fence is a 1/4 done and I
see no light at the end of the tunnel.

Edna

Welcome back!

Becky

Diana, I am so glad you came back. I have felt bad ever since all this came up, but thought I better stay out of it. You have so much to share in so many ways that. Welcome back.

gld

Hi everyone! Has enyone on this forum grown smokey fennel in their potager? I know it has a big tap root and wondered if it was a problem for anyone? This year will be my first attempt at a potager garden. Like others in this forum, I can't get excited about veggies alone. I'd love to see more pictures of members gardens if you have them as I have no firm plan laid out yet and would love ideas.

Hello All.....

Firstly, I'd like to say that although some seem to have been offended in / by this thread I for one was not. It seems to have made the subject of this particular forum quite "defined" without being to linear. The article was a great read and reinforced what I was already coming to understand about my own gardening tendency's

I am new to this particular forum and am glad that I have found it. I have discovered over the past few years that although I LOVE flowering ornamentals in my gardens I also want them to be a little more functional. I can't wait for this spring to get underway so that I can start my gardens on their next course of development into what I have discovered is termed "Potager" gardens

I look forward to being more active within this forum and learning all about your varying Potager Gardens INCLUDING all the different elements you include within each. Whimsey is a good thing!

Claire

Diana,

You know me, here for awhile, gone for awhile. . .well after checking in at calgardening and cottagegardening for a few days and not seeing any of your posts, I got worried! Is she in AZ for spring training? I ran a search and found a link to this new forum, and then this post. Wow. I was surprised at my sadness when I thought you had left, amazing how our cyberfriends really do feel like friends! I have always found your words kind, honest, respectful and helpful! I have enjoyed your posts for the last few years, and as a fellow socal die-hard Angel fan, always felt a connection to "angelcub"! SOOO glad you are back.

GO ANGELS!!!

Janna

OK, I am new and really don't understand what the rules are for this forum. I am just looking for ideas about how to design a small potager garden for my front yard. Can anyone help?

What a strange thread. I thought about not posting at all, and I agree with one poster who said folks need to get outside for some dirt and fresh air.

Where I come from in Hawaii, land has always been worth its weight in diamonds. No one can afford to grow in rows;
consequently, people there take advantage of every nook and cranny they can find. They've gardened that way for generations.

In any garden bed you will find mustard or pak choi cabbage growing alongside Thai basil growing alongside daikon radish growing alongside Manoa lettuce, hot chili peppers, and often, a big pot of Portuguese parsley. Bamboo tepees support string beans and yard long beans. Green onions are tucked everywhere because they are used daily! Hanging above it all in typical wood slat pots you will find one or more of the thousands of orchid varieties, some blooming on fragrant long stalks that perfume the entire neighborhood.

My father grew vanilla orchids on an old rotten tree stump, the tallest thing in the garden. He'd use a ladder to get up there to hand pollinate the blooms. Not four feet away were a couple of papaya plants laden with fruit. Way in the background was banana and a small avocado tree on its way to becoming a giant.

My mother used to always have a pineapple or two growing because she said the sharp, sword-like leaves chased away bad spirits. We shrugged our shoulders at that, but the pineapple was always sweeter than what was found in the stores. All of this was growing in a postage stamp of a back yard which still had to have room for a clothes line.

I live in Kansas now, where it is quite easy to grow in rows, but my garden is no different from my mother's, always has been, just no pineapple or papaya alas.

I guess the term "potager" must be like a buzz word for some and that makes it more special. Who knows. I just garden the way my parents did because it is practical.

Looks to me like this extremely old thread was resurrected quite by accident, so may I be so bold as to suggest we let it die back into the woodwork again? The most recent post that resurrected it is off the main topic anyway. The Potager forum is located here: Potager Forum, and you are welcome to start new threads within it.

Zuni, I know you didn't mean to post your question in an old thread, and I'll copy it into a new post on the forum for you now and give my reply there. And hopefully others will chime in as well with suggestions and help for you.

Sound okay? :-)

Sorry about that Jodi. I should have checked the dates but I did not. That will teach me to be more careful. Still, I thought my comment did fit the thread because it began with someone posting on the definition of a potager garden.

Hi Aulani,

No problem, Hon... I was actually referring to the post by zuni, who I'm sure probably came in here via a search, was new here, and just didn't realize she was in an old thread nor how/where to post a new note to this forum.

I enjoyed your description of your gardens growing up. Sounds like it was very beautiful.