I'm not sure as to your location. . . but I'm in northern Michigan and in year #2 of a prairie garden plan.

I will say that my place has sandy soil, and lots of wildlife that have eaten seeds in the past. I cleared the soil and ended up w/ dry sand in year #1.

This spring, we ammended the soil a little w/ soil peat and manure to hold moisture. We have also added an irrigation system. (A hose w/ a timer on it that is run up to the field to a sprinkler head on a pole)

We planted both seedlings (~ 280) and seeds on May 17th.. Despite the cold and even frosts, we have hundreds, if not thousands of seedlings this spring. We believe we have been more successful w/ the steps we took this spring.

I wish you the very best w/ this project. We have our fingers crossed over here. Our seedlings are very small (2 leaf at the moment), however, appear very happy in their place.

The direction and seed came from the advice of the people at the Vermont Wildflower farm for this spring's work. They are on-line, and very accessible by phone. I'll highly recommend them as this year is a totally different year than last. . . . and we have a very high germination rate w/ the seed.

Thanks. I am on the CT shore zone 6, where we rarely have subzero temps.

The only problem with Vermont Wildflower is that their seed mixes contain highly invasive alien species. But at least they report what's in them - I just hope people actually do that, and then don't buy the stuff. :-P

I called and spoke with them today and found them to be extremely helpful. What invasive alien species would you say they have in their northeast wildflower mix?

Isn't planting something like oriental poppy alien to this area and invasive?

Personally, my entire hillside is dominated with autumn olive which is not a native species and is a prolific seeder in the fall. It was introduced to this area as roadside erosion control and it has taken off from there. My point is I would take anything alien and invasive that would choke out what I have now.

Thanks for the help.

Most of their NE mix is alien, it seems:

Centaurea cyanus
Cheiranthus allionii
Leucanthemum vulgare - pretty common & weedy
Chrysanthemum maximum - not invasive, but alien
Dianthus barbatus - quite aggressive
Gypsophila elegans
Hesperis matronalis - invasive

Most of the rest is not native to the Northeast but to the South or the West. In general, their seed mixes seem to consist of common species with lots of annuals and biennials.

Hi Again,

I'm not an expert in Wildflowers. . . I just enjoy them! I too would welcome plants that survive in the area where I'm trying to grow them. Of the above listed on the 'alien' list includes, in common names: Cornflower, Siberian Wallflower, Sweet William, Baby's Breath, and Dames Rocket.

And well, Dames Rocket grows along the freeways here in Michigan, and other people around here grow Cornflowers and Baby's Breath for flower arrangements.

I chose to use their All Perrennial, All Annual, and the Partial Shade mix. The plot is approximately 100 feet deep by 50 feet wide.

I'm not sure how to upload a picture of the area. But if I can figure it out, then I'll post one of the area taken last September.

Am attempting to post a pic of the area. . . . Please stand by !

Here is a link that might be useful:

It's a nice site, GIP! From that pic it does seem a little shady for a prairie planting, though. Most prairie forbs like full sun.

Yep, this site is somewhat shady. It's a picture of 1/2 of the site. . . the other part gets a little more sun. The surrounding area is heavily forested. We've got mature oak trees growing on the area where we have seeded.

The story for us is that an area conservation officer was working w/ us a year or so ago on our property. He was the one who made the recommendation for a wildflower site. The local DNR sold us our first batch of seeds, which were promptly eaten by a flock (no less than 25) of wild turkeys. Thus, the picture shows the somewhat cleared area. Few plants survived the wildlife. In the meantime, the conservation officer died suddenly. He was a young man. . . .and we are somewhat determined to get this area designated as a wildflower field in his memory.

So now I am totally confused.

I did some more research and I am getting two different recommendations-

1st recommendation (American Meadows/Vermont Wildflower)-
plant some perrenials and annuals, the annuals will bloom first year, make you happy, and out compete the weeds.

Positives to me- I like the colors of the annuals, having the annuals first year would outcompete the weeds, solves the problem of leaving the soil bear from now until fall when I seed again.

Negatives- Most of the mixes are 50% annuals, they contain some "weedy" or possibly invasive species. This may not be a great long term solution

2nd (Prairie Nursery, Inc.)-
Plant their butterfly wildflower mix, it contains mostly perrenials, biennials, and grasses such as dropseed etc.
It seems like a "true" prarie mix and they say I will need patience as it will be a few years for success. They are recommending I continue to control the area until fall with repeat applications of glyphosate until I have completely erradicated the weeds/grasses in the area. Then in the fall after the frost I should plant the seed mix. Mow the first year consitently to control the grasses and any remaining weeds. Second and third years are annual mowes, weed control, and possibly burning. 4+ years sit back and watch these wonderful plants do their thing.

Positives- I was impressed with the advice and it seemed like the "right" advice, I like the mixes and most of it looks like quality stuff

Negatives- will not get the color my wife wants (poppies/conrflowers), this is my front yard- curb appeal of a browned out yard for 6 monthes, wife screaming at me that browned out yard is necessary for long haul results, no real results for a few years.

I have already sprayed the area, so in the next week or so the area will be brown. I was told I have about 2 weeks to get the seeds on the ground if I want to go with option one.

What advise can give me based on my prefrences?

We recently took a road trip to Georgia a few weeks back. That state has started to plant highway wildflower gardens.

I almost ran the car off the road when we approached a Poppyfield! It was SPECTACULAR!

After having a barren year last year w/ all of the site prep and no growth. . . . We chose the annual and perennial combination. We now have thousands of seedlings covering the area. My thoughts are if only annuals come up, I can still get a perrenial seeding in the fall.

We have found there are many professional opinions/recommendations out there, and they all have their advantages and disadvantages. I'll say go w/ what you want!

thanks GIP. I am leaning towards the same thing. A 50/50 mix and then doing some fall plantings over the year.

Are grasses(IE-prarie dropseed) necessary for a meadow, I have seen sites that say its vital for success, others say that grasses will eventually out-compete the grasses and they do not recommend it.

I am pretty sure I will do a 50/50 mix, but I ask the grass questions so I can decide where to get my fall mix.

Front yard is dicey. My meadow and native woodland are in the back. If you lay down mulch over the dead lawn, it won't look so bad. Might want to consider planting some shrubs and a few trees near the edges, though, to give it a little more "structure." A path through the meadow might also make the planting look intentional and well-kept-up.

Prairie Nursery is a well-respected prairie restoration vendor. I also highly recommend Prairie Moon Nursery (seeds & plants), Shooting Star Nursery (mostly plants), & the New England Wildflower Society (seeds online Jan-Mar, plants at store). But I'm really just familiar with what's around in the Midwest & Northeast; I'm sure there are good vendors in other parts of the country as well.

The key with grasses is to sow native grasses, most of which are warm-season bunchgrasses. They won't outcompete the forbs - to the contrary, they'll help keep down cool-season weeds like dandelion, plaintain, burdock, & so on, which can shade out the wildflowers. The "bad" grasses are the sod-forming cool-season ones: they'll form dense sod before the wildflowers can come up. That's why you really have to kill a lawn before putting in a native meadow.

Looking at your picture again, I think you have plenty of trees & shrubs there already to frame the meadow. So I'll go back to the "kill and mulch" idea. :)

do you think my plan of a mix of annuals/perrenials first year now, and then do a fall planting of perrenials and prarie grasses is good or bad idea?

I would like to avoid having a brown front lawn from now until novemeber, then waiting a full year from that for results- that would be two years or so.

the other problem with putting the grasses down in fall is the following year I would have to mow the meadow to prevent the grasses fom taking over and seeding, while the perrenials take time to develop. the reason its a problem is that i have seedlings I am planting in the late summer that i have cultivated in the greenhouse. so these will be trying to flower second year and thats when I will need to mow- could kill my seedling efforts b/c they will be farther along then the perennial seeds.

Well, the difficulty is that most wildflowers native to the northern regions of the continent require "cold-moist stratification," i.e., a period of 60-90 days of cold temperatures to simulate winter, before they germinate. There are a few species that could germinate if sown in spring or summer, & most grasses don't need stratification. I'd recommend doing some "Combination Searches" at http://www.wildflower.org/plants/ and probably picking up the book "Wildflowers: Growing and Propagating" by William Cullina to find out which species you want to use.

Anyway, it would be really tough to control weeds if you had little wildflower seedlings interfering. You couldn't use Round-Up or smothering, and hand-pulling would be difficult. The only thing you could do would be to use a hand-trimmer and mow the weeds down to a reasonable height (4-6 inches) so that the wildflower seedlings would have a chance. Maybe if you sprayed everything with Round-Up first, then put mulch on top, then seeded in summer with species that don't need stratification, then mowed at a 4-6" inch height for the rest of the season, that could work tolerably well. I don't like to recommend cavalier use of Round-Up, though, since it harms amphibians.

If I were working on your garden, I would not attempt to seed the entire area, or even most of it. In fact I might plant very few seeds directl into the ground. You don't really have an overwhelmingly large area. I would clear manageable sections, perhaps each as large as a dining room table, and plant each with a single type of wildflower. I would probably get my shovel and dig out a lot of the weeds, but you could also use Roundup as planned. Either way, try to make sure most of the weeds are gone, then plant a nice single-species stand of flowers. The single-species group will allow the plants to develop at the same pace as their neighbors without having the quick growers shading the slower growers, while the dining room table sized patches will still look like a wildflower meadow when you're done. In a real meadow, you'll find surprisingly large patches of each type of flower, and not usually a random scattering of single plants of many species. By planting patches like these, you'll find that the whole area is planted in a couple of years, and even in the first year you could have a dozen or two patches planted and the hillside will start to look very colorful. You cannot have this project done in a year or two. It will basically take forever, but after the initial couple of years you'll discover which flowers grow well, look nice, spread, and persist more than a year or two. Once you have lots of robust plants growing there, weeds will become less of a problem, although there will always be a few popping up.

I would focus on native plants that spread vegetatively. Bergamot is a good choice. I would also get some Bee Balm - Monarda didyma - which is related to bergamot. Any native plant or hardy non-native perennial could be used, but the ones that spread vegetatively - that is, the plant grows now shoots or new plants alongside it - will be nice because they will cover the ground and keep weeds at bay better than non-spreading plants.

I would not expect satisfactory results from sowing a wildflower seed mix. First, you'd have to till the soil to expect a decent germination rate. Second, you'll have to distinguish the wildflowers form the much more numerous weed seedlings that will be all over, and third, you'll probably get a skimpy stand of plants and then have to decide is you should try to salvage what you have or start over. I would either buy plants and encourage them to spread, or start plants from seeds in pots as you've been doing.

I wouldn't expect poppies of any variety to be a major part of your meadow. They grow OK in a garden, but will probably only tolerate, not thrive in a meadow setting with lots of competition from other plants.

Just curious as to what is happening in your wildflower garden? Have you decided which path to follow?

The site looks like a great one for the project.

nediver, as you have discovered, doing it right takes time. You cannot acquire a high quality / low maintenance meadow in one growing season.

Follow the prairie nursery instructions. Tell your wife to have some patience and look the other way for a couple growing seasons. By the third year, she will be very pleased.

The other option is not do it all once. Only work 1/4 of the yard each growing season. Then keep expanding it each subsequent year. By the time the last quarter is being killed, the first quarter is in full mature bloom. Working smaller areas is easier... and that way you are not looking at an entire lawn of brown for the first year. However if you want to tackle it all at once, go ahead, you get fuller results sooner, than if you broke it up.

I probably would section off an area for the poppies... probably mix 'em with slow growing fescue (also available from Prairie Nursery).