Hi, Jenny

1. Basically, potager is more of a garden design thing while lasagna is a gardening method.

2. Sure paper bags will work. They're just not commonly given out anymore in this age of plastics. At least not around here. Just pretend they're newspapers.

3. Not sure about what you're asking on this one. Do you want to start seedlings and then transplant to the bed or do a winter sowing?

4. Manures are greens ( don't go by colors, that's not what's important. the nitrogen/carbon is what is important. Greens are high nitrogen while browns are high carbons. ) You can also use coffee grounds, grass clippings (untreated) and ask around your neighborhood supermarkets for their spoiled produce.

Good luck on your gardening,

Stumpy

Oh goodness, your effusive thank yous are embarrassing me. Really, there is no need to take up so much of your time thanking me for the time and trouble I went to to answer your many questions. I was happy to condense 2000 pages of archived messages into one concise posting for your convenience. Now, I know many people will say "Stumpy, why do you help people out when all they need to do is learn how to use the handy-dandy search feature that is listed on every forum?" Just the smile on your face and the knowledge that I helped out such a lovely person is thanks enough.

Stumpy

Uhhh... whatever.

Anyway, Jenny, you ask some good questions. They might be better asked on the Soils forum, but that's OK. I'll take a crack at them anyway. :-)

1) Stumpy's right. There is a lot of confusion about what is/isn't a potager. I've given my version of an answer on this forum before - here it is cut and pasted because it's NOT always easy to find information via a search:
"It's a good question, and it's good that you raised it here. I'm sure the traditional idea of the French potager needs to be re-thought for the purposes of this forum to accomodate the (probable) majority of American gardeners who congregate here. I've done some ruminating about this before, and I think of it as follows:

A potager is primarily an edible garden, with flowers mixed in either for harvest (cutting flowers) or for functional purpose (attract beneficial insects or have some other beneficial companion effect on edible plants).

A cottage garden is primarily ornamental, with edible plants mixed in as the aesthetic allows.

A potager need not be formal, although some most definitely are. There is a distinction between a potager and a parterre, which is a very formal landscaping technique involving knots/cordons, color, patterns, and shrub borders. Parterres/knot gardens are of much later origins and are associated with royalty. Potagers have their origins in medieval jardins de cure, which were enclosed sunken medicinal herb gardens tended by monks. At some point, the jardin de cure was blended with the peasant vegetable and cut-flower garden and the potager was born.

To my own way of thinking, a potager should contain most (but not necessarily all) of the following characteristics:

Primarily vegetables
Herbs
Flowers for cutting
Flowers for beneficial/companion purposes
Fruit trees/shrubs
Enclosure (fencing, stonework, etc)
Framed permanent beds
Permanent paths
Biointensive planting methods
Companion/Interplanting
Successive planting
Organic or biodynamic pest control
Compost program
Water feature
Other aesthetic features (sitting bench, bird houses, etc.)

I think mixing and matching the above characteristics into something that suits your tastes will achieve what you could rightly call a potager."

So you can see you're talking apples to oranges when comparing potager with lasagna.

On to your other questions:

2) Yes, brown paper bags will work fine.

3) I know a lot of people on the Soils forum would disagree, but I don't think that the lasagna method is appropriate in all cases. I would encourage you to till or deeply dig the soil in the beds now, in preparation for next year. If you have any organic matter, dig it in now and let it begin to compost in-situ. Water it occasionally for the remainder of this year and early next. Let the weed seeds sprout - any weed seed that sprouts and grows now only to be killed by frost or a hoe is one less weed seed that will sprout next spring when you're trying to grow annuals in that space.

4) If you really must go lasagna and are looking for a green, try alfalfa pellets (which I think are pretty much the same thing as rabbit pellets, but I think they may add more ingredients to rabbit pellets - not sure).

-Diggity

Stumpy
Excuse me if I offended, I asked my question AFTER and hour or more of reading through messages on this forum and was still confused. This was on Monday, Tuesday I went out of town on business and came back today. So there was no thank you because I did not see the message!! I know it is late but thank you.

My grocery stores here still give us the option of paper or plastic, I always choose paper, for various reasons which is why I have a large stash.

I was asking if it is possible to plant seeds in a lasagna bed. Now am thinking I will start them indoors and use seedlings.

DIGGITY
Thank you for clearing up a lot of confusion. I am looking more for easier planting methods in which to expand my flower beds. Which led me to an article on the Lasagna method, and a search on gardenweb brought me to this forum. I was originally under the impression they were the same. I have since learned differently, thank you.

I think I will combine techniques I already use, with some of the lasagne techinques and get my new beds going for next year. My hubby is getting to the age where he groans at me when I ask him to fire up the tiller!

I will check out the soils forum.

Jenny P

I'm thinking the reference to "rabbit pellets" may be the rabbit manure, rather than the rabbit food (not sure).
Rabbit, goat and sheep manure is not hot and can be added straight to the garden for a good shot of nitrogen. Horse and poultry manure needs to be aged as it is "hot" and will burn your plants. Nancy

Jenny,

as someone who loves the lasagna method, I would say that as long as you start your layers in August, there is no real reason to till/dig the bed.

Lay down the bags,add a deep layer (6 inches) of leaves and water heavily for a week. Add another layer of leaves, and then layer whatever you can get your hands on. If your neighbors/restraunts/grocery stores won't share grass/veggies with you, then buy a bale of alfa alfa (NOT coastal) hay from a local feed store and use that. If you want to direct seed this fall, you are going to have buy compost from a local garden shop and spread it deep (2-3 inches) over your layers about 2 weeks before your first freeze. Spread a thin layer of (1/2 inch) top soil over the top, then sow your seeds. If you want to make a specific pattern, glue the seeds with white glue to brown paper bags, then lay them out with just enough dirt and rocks to keep them from blowing away.

Of course, if you willing to wait until spring to sow seed, you can add manure and coffee grounds instead and skip the more expensive compost. If it was me, I would get the manure and coffee grounds in the bed by the beginning of September, then I would plant potatoes this fall, harvest them this winter and put your annuals out next spring. Potatoes and tomatoes are the roto-tillers of choice for lazy gardeners like me! One caveat: potatoes won't care if the manure is rotted or not, BUT some composters believe that manure should be well rotted before being used around vegetables for safety reasons.

hope that helps a little!

Manzo, you're right, but I think Jenny might have problems planting potatoes in September, since she lives in zone 3b, she'd pretty much end up with frozen spuds. :-)

-Diggity

lol! thats a good point, diggity! Goes to show how much we southerners forget that y'all have real winters up there, huh?

ya know, the summer droughts and 100 plus temps are worth it if it means I get potatoes and collards in the winter!