I guess I would like to know are they 1st year blooming perennials or 2nd? How many different varieties are we talking about?

We sow allot of 2nd year seeds in the late summer/fall of the current year then over winter them in cold frame. Why cant you do the same.

As for the 1st year bloomers we sow in Nov. and on for sales next spring.

Maybe I don't understand your issue. But it sounds like you got something more going on here.

I just wanted to know if it would be safe to sow in October as it is recommended that most perennials are sown no later than July. I dont know if oyu have warmer temperature than me where you are (although in some respects in a heated greenhouse I dont suppose it matters. The replies I seem to be getting at the moment is that it should be safe but be very careful with temperstures.

The money is in cloned plants mostly, not seed started.

The money is in cloned plants mostly, not seed started.

Pardon???
A bit of an explanation please.

michaelhampton
You can start a seed any time of the year as long as you have the capability to maintain a good growing environment after the fact. So the question would be do you?

yes please explain `the money is in cloned plants mostly, not seed started` Im a little confused

michaelhampton:
I'm a little confused from reading all of your post. You say you grow 1.8 MILLION plants a year? Why would you come here to ask a question that would, on the surface, be a question that you would already know? We will start 40,000 plants, from seed, next year and I had an answer to your question. Something just doesn't add up. Im not questioning you but with a staff of 10 you would think someone would know the answer?

Surely you have way more experience/education then I?

Seed started are the easiest to do.
Seed started is full of freaks and runts, and generally uneven.
As opposed to cloning a worthy, proven plant by rooting cuttings or division, etc, which takes a bit more effort and expense.
Therefore the giant growers with the locked in markets lean towards seed started. The worst of this is the same old, same old plants which are seed started in late winter in greenhouses. Fooling the buying public every early spring.
As a matter of competing with the banal mega-growers you have to do cloned to raise the quality.

Every person in the world has a different opinion Mylu. From asking questions I get different opinions. I listen to those opinions and get ideas from them, thats what makes me good at my job. Its the same as different clients wanting different plants, you have to listen to every one of them clients and then you suceed. If I listened to my staff all the time nothing would change. I still listen to my staff now and have done since i started my company but I need to find a new strategy in order to solve the poblem. At the moment my staff do not seem to be coming up with anything new. Plus I dont want to alarm them if I told them the problems I was having they`d probably be anxious about their own futures. In reply to yuor first question which I seem to have missed, they would need to be first year bloomers from October sowings which I know is possible with some perennials. I dont think second year bloomers would sell as well. Im not as interested in different culivars, but I do need to grow a lot of different species. May I also say that no matter how much I sell no matter how big my nursery I still learn every day and sometimes I actually learn a lot more from reading these forums that what I would in my nursery, although I know its not the same as experiencing things first hand. Mylu your a very inquisitive person!!!
I dont know what to say to your reply super. Seed sowing is full of freaks and runts lol but I dont know if theyre easier to do than plant propoagation and in several circumstances I`d actually say propagation can actually be easier than seed sowing. For starters I find propagation a lot more reliable than what seed sowing is. The only reason I would choose seed sowing is the variety availiable. With seeds you can purchase all sorts of diffeent varieties but with propagation you would have to have an awful lot of different plants availiable to propagate from in the first place, especially for someone like me who sells a lot of different varieties. Youve then got to care for not only the cuttings but also for the main plants. Plus youve got to buy those plants for 1 plant you could buy 2 packets of seeds from which you could get at least 100 plants from. The quality from seeds can also be a lot better thanpropagation. How often do you see an immaculate plant. You can not guarantee that the plant doesnt have any diseases or growing disorders and if you propagate from these sorts the likelihood is the cuttings will suffer from the same problem. However when seed sowing you get new plants which I know you can also not guarantee wont have any problems but the chances are a lot slimmer. One more thing is lets imagine an amateur took a cutting from a diseased plant perhaps without even knowing it, that cutting is already diseased before its even grown roots, you might as well give up before you`ve started. Now with seeds you usually know that when those seeds develop cotyledons they are more than likely to be healthy so its up to you to keep them healthy from then on but at least youve started of in the right direction.

Interesting comment Superphosphate.

We grow a lot of our stock from seed. Some of it quite rare and unavailable elsewhere. Most established seed strains are actually quite uniform - with the odd occasional surprise, good or bad. This is a very good way of offering a wide selection of species not often covered by the big dutch growers who dominate the big box/garden center sales in europe for example.

We propagate some clones from vegatative propagation, and I think that this is a quicker route and sometimes more reliable than seed. Good healthy mature stock plants are required to do this well.

In all honesty, I think that in general there are far too many clones out there which are virtually indistinguishable even to the expert eye. I'm not interested in offering 300 clones of hosta for example. For me there is a green one, a blue one, a white variagated a yellow variagated, a giant and a darf (apologies to all hosta fans out there!). After that its just a question of picking one of each type with a name that you think will sell.

There are some good clones out there, but there is a lot of 'hype' for the newest 'name' out there as well. I'm a nurseryman not a name collector.

People don't pay more for clones on my nursery, unless they are particularly difficult to propagate - in the same way that my Romneya coulteri seedlings are worth quite a bit more than your average Russel lupin.

Of course you can always propagate vegatatively from unsold stock, however if its unsold do you really want even more stock of the same thing.......;)

This topic brings to the forefront the debate between vegetative and seed produced plants. I feel there is room for both approaches. At my small place we have display gardens for beauty and customer educational puposes,(and great silent salesmen), but also these gardens are used for stock plants for cuttings and division, and even the occassional seed collecting. Several of the best plants we have introduced arrived via seed sowing, some on purpose, some naturally. I think that we should not lose the genetic diversity inherent in the plant world by ignoring the possibilities of seed production. But I also feel that obviously superior cultivars are best produced vegetatively, unless and until a better one comes along to take its place.
Jack

We often sow perennial seed during late spring to late summer if time permits. It gives us a good start on next season.

Go to the seed forum. Start second year flowering now or in
sept. and put in a cold frame. I have started Heuchoria now and will be doing the same. You can start first year fowering from now till Jan. Yes it is ok to start your seeds in a heated grednhouse in october. Your plants you start from seed will be healthier than the others I dont care what they say, and you have to love what you do. Enjoy youself wile you save money.