I don't use it for Grapes,mostly Blueberry cuttings,but also Blackberry,Cornelian Cherry,Honeyberry and a few other things.
Right now,there is a cheap timer that has 15 minute increments and I have them turn off a few times during the day for 15 minutes,mostly to not overwork the fogger.It is set to turn off at night also.
I recently bought some foggers on Ebay and need to set them up to see how they work.I'll probably use a similar timer hooked to a water control valve. Brady

Here is a link that might be useful: Netafim Coolnet Fogger

Brady,
The link that you supplied is that the fogger you bought? If so, please tell me about your setup.
At present I have a 3 head ultrasonic fogger also connected to a 15 min. timer. I have it turn on at 10 AM off at 4 PM and on and off every 15 min. during the day.
I have a 4'x8'x16' high grow box covered with plastic. In the box I have a small raised bed in which I stick my cuttings and I also have several 2.5 qt. containers full of cuttings. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Hans

Here is a link that might be useful: Muscadines And More

Yes,I bought two of them to try out.
Right now one of my setups is using a Mist-a-Matic controller with an inexpensive Orbit water valve and even cheaper mister/fogger heads.They do okay but need to do a better job at atomizing the particles in my opinion.So,I'm going to try these new heads with the M-a-M.They are said to make more of a fog,which is what I want and have a built in shutoff valve so there is no dripping after the water shuts off.I'll report after they are installed.
Your box is 4 feet x 8 feet x 16 feet high?That's really tall for a propagation chamber.Do the foggers cover that much area?
Here is another system from North Carolina State University.I've never tried building it,just something saved when searching. Brady

Here is a link that might be useful: NCSU Mist System

Brady,
I messed up, it's only 16" (inches) high. At least the 16 was right.
You might be disappointed in the new foggers as per the link they put out a 65 microns of fog which is Hugh compared to an ultrasonic fogger which is close to 5-6 microns. Let me know how it works out.
I am checking out your newest link now.

Hans

Hans

Hans,
Okay,I made up a manifold for the new foggers.Yes,they do shoot out a lot,but it's more uniform than the previous setup.The tent is only 5' x 2' x 2' high.I used two heads and probably one will suffice,but with the simple function of the Mist-a-Matic,they can be adjusted to turn on and off at just about any duration.
These may work in your setup but your timer may need to be more complex.I've seen one online that operates on solar power,I believe and has small increments and is less than $75.
I'm still going to be using my pond fogger setup,because it works pretty good.
If I can,I may post a video of the new setup when functioning. Brady

Brady,
Any updates on your new fogger system?
Hans

Hi Hans,
It was used during the Summer and I like the Netafim spray heads better than the original ones.The output is greater,but the pattern is much more even,like I posted earlier.
I tried to make a video using my phone's camera,but the detail was not enough to see the spray pattern.
Most cuttings grew well. Brady

Brady,
I recently used a 3 head ultrasonic fogger in my 2'x4'x16" propagation structure in my green house. I used (2) 18' rope lights for bottom heat. I put in about 100 or so Sunpatient cuttings and in 3-4 weeks I had about a 98% success rate in root production.
Planning to use a waterbed heater for bottom heat in a sand bed next summer to increase my rooting production rate on my Muscadine cuttings.

Hans,
That looks like a quality setup.More sturdy than mine.I used a PVC frame and draped plastic film over it.Yours gives me new ideas.Thanks for showing.
I don't use bottom heat and probably should.I was in Lowes Home Center once,looking for plumbing parts and an employee I was talking to mentioned something about some kind of board or mat that I think he said is used in floor heating systems and can be cut to any size.It's been awhile and I should of paid more attention to what he was saying.I'll have to investigate further.
Great success with your cuttings. Brady

Brady,
This might interest you.
Jan. 21st, 22nd, and 23rd I will be attending horticulture event present by GGIA ( Ga. Green Industry Assoc.) in Atlanta. It is called 'Winter Green 2015'. On the 21st I will attend an all day plant propagation class given by 4 professors from the U of Ga. going over things you didn't learn in class. The afternoon class will be all 'Hands ON'.
On the 22nd I will attend a class on 'NEW PLANTS'.
on the 23rd I will attend a 'Walk Through' of all of the plant booths by Dr. Michael Dirr.
There will be special 20 min. classes given each day, all day long.
I always want to learn more, especially on plant propagation.
This event is only for people in the business not for the general public.

Hans

I've heard of fogponics before but never tried it. I thought that the roots were supposed to be in the fog.

The fog keeps the cuttings moist so that they can develop roots. You can fog the tops or the bottoms either way it works. Many of the big name propagation companies are switching to fog over mist since it has so many advantages. I can give you a whole list of advantages.

Hans

I have a stupid question is fog the same as mist? I have got a setup which is not finished it is in the open but under a tree. I wonder about the light levels you need for cuttings. I guess full sun is too much in Australia.
Do you use mist as well for seeds? I think it is so easy to forget to water and things bake in an hours or two.

You might want to check out this link: http://www.greenhousemag.com/greenhouse-0311-fog-alternative-germination-propigation.aspx
It gives a good comparison between fog and mist.

Hans

Here is a link that might be useful: FOG

thanks!

Brady,
Any more updates on your new fog heads.
Thinking about using them as mist heads.
My mist heads put out too much water, satuate the growing media.
Your thoughts.

hans

Hans,
What is the media composed of?The stuff I use is half perlite and peat moss.It does get a little heavy and I may try 75% perlite to 1/4 peat.This should allow for good drainage,while still providing enough organic matter for the roots to grow into.
My system is shut down for the Winter,as it's in an unheated greenhouse.
The Netafim heads put out more of a spray and they need water pressure,probably something like 40 psi and won't work as fog type setup.I think that these heads will be ideal suspended several feet above cuttings,because of the output.
Possibly try different run times with the timer.I know it's difficult to do if the surrounding air temperature fluctuates during the day.
That's what's so nice about the Mist-a-matic.It acts like one of the leaves and doesn't care about temperature and just turns off and on as water evaporates.I haven't used it with a pond fogger,but I don't see any problems,if it could be connected to turn the fogger on and off. Brady

Brady,
For the last 3 days I was in Atlanta attending an event set up by GGIA which was called "Winter Green 2015". I spent most of the days in classes which were presented by professors of Horticulture from the university of Ga. Of course my favorite class was an all day class entitled Plant propagation. It was mind boggling with all of the new techniques that are used now. I plan to give a class at Lowe's where I work part time in a few weeks teaching the customers what I learned.
Back to your question:
I have used all kinds of mixes from straight Perlite, 75% perlite, 25% peat, sand, potting soil, hard wood mulch and finding out the 25% peat and perlite so far is the best.
I have been using Dramm Sticks for my mist system. The green sticks put out way too much water, 64.8 gal/hr. I am thinking of using the Netafim heads as misters not foggers. They only put out 8.1 gal/hr at 60 PSI at 65 microns. Where as a fogger puts it out at less than 5 microns.
A professor at the classes suggested not to use the mist-o-matic since spiders love to hide in them and screw the whole thing up.
Last summer I used my misters for 5 sec. every 10 min.. Thinking about using them 3 sec. every 5 Min.
I am also thinking about constructing a "water bed" for bottom heat. I know that sounds wird!!! but might work. Got the heater. Planig to get a super double mattres for $48 and build a frame. Its 48"x84" it would hold a lot of cuttings.
At the classes, we were told that there is an international Propagaters Association were every one helps each other.
Have not checked into that yet, but will research it shortly.

Hans

Brady,
Check this out
www.ipps.org

Hans

Hans,
That sounded like an excellent event.Thanks for the site info.I may go to the meeting in Modesto this September.
I'll keep a lookout for spiders. Brady

'Is there anyone out there who has successfully used fog for plant propagation???
Any hints would be greatly appreciated.'

In my observation, as a person, not a plant, standing in a propagation house where fog has been operated, I have not been impressed.

It does not cool the air like mist; it does not rest on the leaves, and I felt as uncomfortable after the fog as I had felt before the fog.

Maybe it wasn't on for long enough, but what I felt, when the nursery manager wanted to change to fog when our misting system had been so good, was puzzlement.

Not very long ago I was standing in a new, huge, very expensive propagation house and again, the manager had changed to fog. Same thing. Same uncooled air, same unmisted leaves on the cuttings.

In my opinion, misting is so much better than fog that there is so comparision, as far as the cuttings are concerned. Maybe there is a difference in cost, I don't know. I am just unimpressed with fog.

Hi tete-a-tete,
I for one as well as thousands of others have had great success with fog propagation. I have successfully rooted, Sunpatients, blue berries, grape vines, Muscadine vines and much more.
I just came back from Plant workshop presented by many professors from UGA and they too spoke highly about fog propagation.
The internet is full of positive comments about fog propagation. Most of the large propagators are switching over to it since it has so many advantages over misting.
I put a link below that will give you some more info.

Hans

Here is a link that might be useful: FOG Propagation

I would like to think that fog is great because many people are switching over to it. But I can't. I stood there uncooled, in two different propagation houses. The plants looked unimpressed. I felt unimpressed. What I wondered was, why switch to fog when mist is lovely?

Is it vastly cheaper? I had a quick look at the link but I got to thinking, why am I reading about fog when I don't like it?

Let me ask you.
Are you looking for your comfort or the plants?
You might want to look at studies of the use of fog in plant propagation.
Apparently you don't want to listen to the facts, your loss.
There might be some people who have positive experience in using fog, but your mind is made up.
You asked for other peoples experience with fog, but you don't want to listen. Your mind is made up even after you get the facts that you ask for.

For me temperature is not a big issue.In fact where I'm at in the Pacific Northwestern US,more heat is usually needed.
In my opinion,fog is better for a smaller enclosed environment and misting for something like the inside of a large greenhouse,at least in my experience so far. Brady

Brady,
I think that you are right.
I am thinking of getting some of those new fog heads that you recently got. I noticed that the water output is about 8.1 gal./hr and the particles are bigger than the ultrasonic foggers. The problem I have with my misting heads is that they put out too much water and my growing media gets saturated even though they only mist for 5 sec. every 10 min. So I think I will give them a try this summer.

Hans

Hans, I have read your link:

http://www.greenhousemag.com/greenhouse-0311-fog-alternative-germination-propigation.aspx

And here is what I think.

The article: Fog is an alternative to mist for germination and propagation. Its advantages include more uniform wetting across the plant area...

T-a-T: Yes, I think it would be 100% uniform.

Article: ... deeper penetration into the foliage...

T-a-T: I have seen no evidence of that.

Article: … higher efficiency and lower maintenance costs. For propagation, a high relative humidity can be maintained...

T-a-T: Who wants high humidity? The aim surely is to cool the air and supply some moisture to the leaves.

Article: … without saturating the growing medium.

T-a-T: Mist, correctly set up, should not be wetting the medium. If it is, adjustments must be made. Also, check to see if the pipes delivering that water are leaking or whether the person who waters the pots or trays of cuttings is over-watering.

Article: Fog is also frequently used for evaporative cooling.

Fog vs. mist
Fog particles are generally considered to be less than 50 microns (0.002 inches) in diameter. The particle size typically used in high pressure greenhouse fog systems is about 10 microns.
Mist consists of particles from 50 to 100 microns. As a comparison, human hair is about 0.004 inches in diameter or about 100 microns. Breaking 1 gallon of water into 50 micron droplets produces about 68 billion droplets of fog.
Injected into the air these tiny water droplets remain suspended until they are evaporated. The smallest particles vaporize almost instantaneously. The larger particles are carried by air currents, gradually becoming smaller until they are vaporized.
Mist particles are much heavier and take much longer to evaporate.

T-a-T: Yet, mist seems to work better.

Article: These particles are more likely to fall out of the air and wet plant surfaces...

T-a-T: Yes. And this seems to be very helpful in keeping the cuttings cool and from losing too much moisture through their leaves.

Article: ... or saturate the growing medium.

T-a-T: Again, mist doesn't saturate the growing medium when it is correctly used.

Arctile: If the particles don’t evaporate before nighttime, the potential for disease increases.

T-a-T: It should not be coming on at night. You need controls in place to signal when the cuttings no longer need the mist to operate.

Article: Fog for propagation

The humidity in the air affects the evapo-transpiration rate from the leaf surfaces. To achieve good propagation, a balance between humidity and transpiration is needed to allow water and nutrient uptake without excess dehydration.

In a crop with a dense foliage canopy and without much air movement, a boundary layer of moisture approaching saturation develops around the plants. If the growing medium is also saturated, there is a potential for problems from fungi, moss, Botrytis and fungus gnats.

T-a-T: Air circulation is needed, but not wind.

Article: When the air temperature is high and leaf temperature increases, water loss can exceed the ability of plants to take up moisture and stress can build up within the plants. The use of fog at this time can reduce the air temperature and increase the humidity within the plant canopy without saturating the growing medium.

T-a-T: Again, I think mist does this much better than fog.

Bradybb WA-Zone8

I purchased several Netafim spray heads since they put out a lot less water than my present spray heads. In trial runs I noticed that when you turn off the water supply they do not stop misting right away. Have you noticed that? If so what have you done to compensate for the delay in shut off time?

Hans

Hans,
I just read your last comment and question,as another forum has been my mainstay.
It seems that was one of the features with the spray heads,the ability to shut the flow of water off right away.I thought mine did,but not totally sure.The system isn't running now,because I've been busy grafting,but I'll probably start it soon and pay attention.The old mister heads certainly ran on for awhile. Brady

Brady,

Just found your comment. Only 6 months late. I switched to misty Mist heads by Dramm. They are a major expense, 79 cents each and put out very little water, even at 45 PSI. I packed all of my Netafim spray heads away. I may or may not use them again.

My mist house is all put away waiting for winter to hit. Will order 3-4 more misty mist heads, if I can afford them, for next Spring.

Hans

I totally agree. But last year I found some Dramm Misty Mist Mist heads which only put out .3-.5 gals/hr at 70PSI. This is far less water than any other I have found. I start taking cutting tomorrow and hope to have taken at least 5K between now and Sept. 1. My misters are set for 5 sec. on 10 min. off from 7 am to 4 pm. Last year I successfully propagated and sold over 1,500 starter vines (rooted Cuttings). At present I have 20 different variaties. Please check out my website: www.MuscadinesAndMore.com.

Took a look at the website....great work!

I came across a fascinating account of growing Swamp Cypress from soft wood cuttings in China, in full sun using only hand applied misting! There is a photo of this at the end of this article: http://arnoldia.arboretum.harvard.edu/pdf/articles/2011-69-2-can-taxodium-be-improved.pdf

It shows women walking up & down beds containing over 1 million cuttings misting them with great hand held sprays. It says the results are superior to automated systems...........would be great to have a 1.3 billion strong population from which to select cheap labor eh?

I clicked on your link, no results "Page does not exist."

Yep I tried it too & you're right. I'll check it & re-post it corrected shortly

OK now it works......the picture & description of the amazing operation striking 1 million cuttings in the open air in full sun is at the end of the article

Peter