Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness don't they say, so I guess I shall bump this on down.

I am not sure what type of conversation you are interested in starting, but here goes . . . .

I thought the values of modernity are about learning from the past so as to improve the present with hard work, faith, science, and optimism. Most certainly a different way of dealing with the past.

Are we talking about alienation? Solipsism?

Ink,
Our travels over the past few weeks found us in the inner section of a northern city we have never visited before. A local resident suggested that touring a section of homes built in the 1930's might be of interest to us. Armed with clear directions we soon found ourselves in a city section that made me feel in a time warp. Beautifully crafted brick/stone homes built by emigrant labor lined the streets. Every European house style was represented within a 20 block area. Beautiful leaded/stained glass windows on each house. Although this city has been in turmoil and decline for years these homeowners have quietly, lovingly preserved the houses and character of the neighborhood. But, here's the kicker. There was no landscaping! No pretty little backyard gardens. Just tall oak trees shading each lot, a bit of lawn and....meatball shrubs carefully marching with precision along the front foundations. Of course the shrubs were the original yews with massive, limbed up trunks and shaved into contorted forms on top. I saw no effort to update the landscaping in the area. Very interesting.
So, I don't know if the thoughts above are a "map or conduit" to anything. Especially when I had to look up the word "solipsism". Garden restoration is such an interesting subject. I, too, would like to see the dialog restored on this Forum. There are a number of us who enjoy the research connected with restoration projects.

Maybe those 1930's houses are owned by mainly elderly who cannot do the gardening anymore and the only type of landscape help available/affordable are the mow and blow guys. Or they do all annuals, and of course they are all gone and the place tidied for winter. Could you see the back yards at all? The garden goodies might all be there. I had read somewhere that these designed neighborhoods from the '30's were going for the estate type look, where everyone's front yard merged seamlessly together to look like a large estate.

Thanks for the "jumpstart" INK!

I think Jill is on to something. It's only when older folks start moving out, and younger families start moving in, that you get "landscaping." I've seen this more in my sister's Milton neighborhood than my own. Say what you will, lawn and meatballs are WAAAAY lower maintenance than perennial beds.

Also--I think taking on an "established" yard is intimidating. It takes cojones (and a strong back) to rip out ancient meatballs and replace them with more intersting shrubbery. Additionally--mature trees can make life difficult on a small lot. They suck up water, they cast impenetrable shade--their roots are EVERYWHERE. Yes, one can cut down a 70+ y/o oak...but the neighbors frequently get upset.

Case in point:

We had a neighbor move in and the first thing he did was take out all the 40 + year-old azaleas and all the pines. Much of the neighborhood was VERY unhappy. "It was so pretty in the spring!" (Yeah, for all of three weeks.) I tried to point out that the lot was overgrown and that the Tall pines were a hazard. No one thought these were good reasons. He did my argument no favors by doing some truly hideous landscaping...but the point is, the neighbors were doing the BMW before they even SAW the hideous landscaping.

I'm rambling again...

melanie

What I mean is that it is often necessary to admit that you don't know before you can discover anything, what happens to that childlike sense of wonder when we are afraid to own up to not knowing. For a successful dialogue about the subject Nandina nicely describes it is not necessary fo someone to pose a Big Question and expect a Definitive Answer because the answer is often discovered in a side issue. When someone asks a question that you cannot answer but find interesting and you also get a kick out of the research process, what do you do? It is in the ensuing discussion that we all learn
whereas checking in every day to check for the next big thing leads to stagnation.
Perhaps the self is the only thing that can be truly known to exist (not my view) but, as I said, I am not looking for the holy grail, only a shared interest in the speculative how's and why's about gardens , their history and their restoration.

INK-
You wrote:
"It seems to be the modern idea is to deny anythIng that may have provided the conduit or the road map to where we are now and this is not the way I see it,"

Maybe this is why we have such a dearth of postings on this forum . . .

G.

Maybe ginger.
Nandina and I recently corresponded about the Innocenti garden down in NC and she sent me some pictures. It matters not if you are from North Carolina or Boston but, and Nandina is as game as I am, to explore this in an interactive way for free, here, is indeed a gift.
In our midst is a neophyte restoration freak we have not encouraged too much. One must assume that we have all just landed here from another planet, a notion that would please melanie but there is much to explore here. Dreams are connected with sleep but when you awaken please share them with us.

INK---???????????

Confused again---but what else is new?

melanie

Thought-flow:
When the definitive answer didn't actually work in the situation, that's when it's good to be able to safely say that, and call for contributions of even little bits that might help.

More options and resources. More by-ways that may lead to a different way of seeing or resolving the issue.

Being able to bat ideas around, have them picked up, rethought, sent back with a different POV. It can feel uncomfortable, but it also helps to develop a touch of humility and stringency.

Making an environment where new folk are included and can contribute. Some sites can be downright chilling, and others lack the traffic for a lively feel.
Getting together often enough to build rapport - and dialogue.

But then where are we V, in need of a topic or subject worthy of attention?
To me the whole idea of garden restoration is of interest, but I see it from an historic point of view, in other words what it being restored has to have some significance other than bringing it back to a state that once was just for the sake of it and ignoring recent discoveries.
I agree with every word you say but how is this done, I clearly do not know as you can easily tell from the fact that of the top four posts here, three are mine, or me reaching out.

re: "what it being restored has to have some significance other than bringing it back to a state that once was just for the sake of it and ignoring recent discoveries"

Excellent and interesting point, I think, for a couple of reasons. Recent discoveries may include new cultivars that are more disease resistant, for example, thus better suited for the garden. The original garden might include plants that were just a fad of the time - should they still be included (if available) in the restoration? Have changing sun/shade (neighbouring trees getting bigger) or water table levels made change necessary?

I'm also wondering how old a garden has to be to be "restored," and to what previous state it should revert. My backyard garden is barely ten years old ('reclaimed' from a muddy, weedy yard) but needs some drastic renovations thanks to rapidly growing neighbouring Manitiba Maples hogging the sun. Should I research 1920's factory workers'gardens? Look for plants of that era that will grow in shade? Or one of the era's between then and now? Perhaps the era that included the lead poisoning that caused gardens in the whole neighbourhood to be dug up and have soil replaced 20 years ago. (Lead Plant?)

wow. they had to take everyone's soil away becasue of lead contamination? From what kind of factory? Had it been air born,or what? Did they reimburse people for all the plants that got destroyed?

Yeah - they carted it all away, I'm told. It was before we moved here so I don't know the details. Front yards must not have been touched much, though, considering the extremely old maple in my front yard and other rather large trees in the area.