Hi Jali,

I do have a drip system at this house, but the whole thing is all just one zone, with emitters all over in the weirdest combination IÂve ever seen! From large whiskey barrels in the front yard, to medium size planters in the back yard, to SMALL hanging baskets on the deckÂand small overhead sprinklers in one narrow bed in the front yard! TheyÂre all in the same zone! The people who put the system in didnÂt know anything at all about gardening (the ROCK people!), and didnÂt know that BIG whiskey barrels and SMALL hanging baskets use different amounts of water! Some day IÂll either have some different zones put in (which I think will be pretty expensive), or IÂll figure it out well enough to just turn some of them off. But I havenÂt had time to try to figure the whole thing out yet! IÂm too busy gardening! LOL BUTÂeven if I were able to use the drip system, I, literally, donÂt have anywhere to set any pots! I canÂt even find anywhere to store the B-B-Q when IÂm not using it! Every square inch is allocated to the perennial and veggie gardensÂwhich WILL have good soilÂsome day! IÂve decided this is going to be a good tomato year!

HappyÂwhiteÂspring,
Skybird

What is everybody's opinion on which of the small-fruited varieties is the smallest?

The smallest in the tomato family would probably be the currant tomatoes.

Are you thinking about the smallest plants, Mcmooreacctnt? I'd imagine that this would be one like Jaliranchr's Red Robins.

Far from the smallest fruit or plant, the Jelly Beans we grew one season were "small enuf." The Jelly Bean plants had quite a sprawl and I think I burned more calories getting a handful than I gained.

If anything, the Sugar Lumps we grew last year were smaller than the Jelly Beans but I enjoyed the flavor so much that I didn't mind the harvesting exercise. Honestly, the Jelly Beans were delightful, also.

To understand where I'm coming from size-wise with the small-fruited varieties, the one we just HAVE to have each year is the LARGE red cherry.

You can look at descriptions of quite a few tomato varieties at the Cornell U. webpage linked below. Also, it would help other gardeners if you rate those that you've grown.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Varieties for Gardeners

Digit:

Thanks for the info. I did not specify the size context... I was after small fruit. I'll be sure to rate on the Cornell U site w/ what varieties I have grown.

**bump!**

How are everyone's seedlings doing? When are you planning to transplant them?

If anyone is interested, the Colorado Master Gardeners are having a seedling sale in Boulder and in Denver on May 19th and 20th. I went to the one in Boulder last year and they had 50 varieties of tomatoes (heirlooms and hybrids) for sale and tons of other vegetable and flower starts. In Boulder it will take place at the corner of Iris and Broadway starting at 9am. Get there early if you want varieties like San Marzano and Sun Gold because they were gone before I got there last year.

My seedlings are just fine and made their outdoor debut yesterday. Lined up on sawhorse tables and against the fence where they can hide from the afternoon sun, they look like quite the sturdy little troopers.

Already they need more soil . . . . Some have gone into 4" pots but that's the way all should be taking and soon. I'll buy a little more time by putting dry fertilizer on them today but that's a very temporary fix. Actually, what I'm buying is time to find space in the greenhouse as I wait to move SOME OF THESE OTHER PLANTS OUTTA HERE!

DigitS'

The biggest are a foot high, the smallest 6" high, and all ok so far. I too need to shift stuff outdoors here, I have a dozen or so very large, 15 gallon containers stuffed full of geraniums that over winter in the greenhouse, and they take up a whole lot of prize real estate by the south facing windows. They will move out on the front porch here pretty quick.

I'm not too impressed with my tomatoe seedlings this year. I'm using a Parks seed tray with the sponge bio-cells. It worked great to get them to germinate but the sponges are very small. I should have re-potted them by now I think because of the extensive roots growing in the bottom of the tray. However, repotting them will geatly increase the amount of space they take up and I have no additional space under the lights. As a result my seedlings are about 3 inches tall and and slightly weak in color. Not bad but not great. I'm going to re-pot and figure out the spacing issues today when I get off of work. Next year when I have the majority of my perennials established I'll have more room under the lights for vegetables.

~Yago

Mine are doing terrifically. Really pleased with the plants this year.

Only little setback was my tomatillos spontaneously died overnight. I have no idea what happened. Looked like wilted lettuce the next morning when they were fine the night before. Oh, well, the tomatoes are doing fine.

Shelley, I've never grown tomatillos but I've seen others claim that the only reliable method is to allow volunteers to reseed each year.

The mysterious deaths may have little to do with your efforts. Territorial says that you shouldn't direct seed them but maybe that's in Oregon.

DigitS'

I'm going to my first tomato dance this summer. Going to try to grow in containers because I don't dare plant anything edible "out there."

I got some Better Boy because I have no clue and after reading your posts I am painfully aware of my lack of knowledge.

I am eager to find out how you all did!

Wishccr, my neighbor grew Better Boys last year, I was very impressed.

I noticed during a visit a few days ago that she's growing them again. DW tried to give her a few of our Big Beefs and it was, "No, no, no, I've got all the big tomatoes that I need. Do you have any extra cherries?" I think there's no question that she's happy with the Better Boys.

DigitS'

I guess I should have thought to give you some advice, Wishcrr, since you are saying that you're a complete novice . . . Okay, here it is:

Give your tomatoes everything, including plenty of room in those containers. Do all that you can for them. Never let the soil in the container become completely dry. Give them plenty of fertilizer. Assign the sunniest and most pleasant spot on the deck to them. Tie their stems lovingly to a trellis. Be prepared to squash, swat, and, otherwise kill, anything that dares cause them harm. Talk to them. Sing to them. Treat them as your Summer companions. Pamper, indulge, humor, spoil, coddle, baby your tomato plants in every way.

And, they will reward you with amazing abundance.

D'S'

Agree with Steve, Better Boys are good tomatoes, and a good tomato to learn with, and they take the heat well.

Nobody is gonna harass ya about growing hybrids on this board, because too many of us grow them alongside the heirlooms. Good tomato is a good tomato whether it is hybrid or heirloom, there are good of both and stinkers of both.

Enjoy your tomatoes, wishccr!

Better Boys? I always grow some Better Boys because they're reliable as heck, never get sick and are good canners. I'm not growing as many this year because I canned enough to last years last year.

I only grow one or two tomato plants a year, and this year I'm trying First Girl from Johnny Seeds, which is an early blooming indeterminate hybrid, supposed to be disease resistant.

Mine are still fairly small, in their four-inch pots. I carry them outside to the sun each day, and bring them in at night. I can do that since between the peppers, tomatoes and eggplants I only have a trayful to move around.

I've recently moved to the country and now have a 30x30' garden on 2 acres, much larger than what I had before. All of your comments and experiences are helpful, as I haven't done much gardening for many years, when I used to grow just Rutgers. This year, I have a mix of heirlooms and hybrids from Johnny's and Cooks Garden. So far, all made very good starts. Heirlooms, started 3/25: Caspian Pink, Cherokee Purple, Striped Cavern, Mirabelle Blanche, Polish Linguisa. Hybrids, started 4/8: New Girl, Dafel, Estiva, Tomosa, Sungold Cherry, Balcony. I planted most of them in the garden on Sunday, 5/20. They seem happy. I used Alaska Start-Up (molasses-based) transplant-fertilizer each time I moved them, and will continue to fertilize with that until they seem grounded. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on favorite fertilizers. Since I just moved, I don't have an ample compost yet. And, is it possible to have too many varieties? I didn't do a lot of research on my selections, other than looking for good flavor among lesser known varieties - the same way I buy wine. Anyway, I'm happy to join up here, and look forward to hearing about abundant harvests across the board.
--toppertea

I think you are going to have a lot of fun with that selection, toppertea. And, the only concern I'd have about "too many varieties" is saving seed from your heirlooms.

I've saved seed from a few tomatoes over quite a few seasons and had never worried about cross-pollination. However, the other day Zeedman (who seems to be a well informed guy) addressed the issue and you can find that info at the link below. I guess I was quite impressed because I've already quoted this once or twice elsewhere. Here's part of what he said:

"However, some tomatoes are very prone to crossing:
(1) Potato-leaf varieties
(2) Currant tomatoes
(3) Double blossoms of large tomatoes (usually some of the first of the season)
(4) Varieties whose blossoms have a protruding style/stigma"

I'm growing Prudens Purple this year (a potato-leaf variety) and won't be saving the seed based on this info - just buy more if I like Prudens. Of course, crossing won't have any effect on this year's fruit, flavor-wise or in any other way.

With regards to fertilizer, I once was told by a successful tomato gardener that she used her father's technique - 1 tomato plant, 1 bag of cow manure. She was an older woman from the East Coast. Altho' I never saw cow manure in a bag until I was 30 or so, I have long suspected that this is useful approach to fertilizing in the absence of manure-rich compost.

A few years ago, I was using fish emulsion as a foliar tomato fertilizer on a regular basis. However, I had so much trouble using the hose-end sprayed with any consistency - I gave that up. It generally worked well and followed the use of kelp spray in the greenhouses so other than some soil amending, all fertilizing was done thru the leaves.

These days, I buy Whitney Farms lawn fertilizer, applying it to the planting hole and then on the soil surface about a month after planting. It has a high N number for an organic fertilizer but I'm using a lot of it for greens (lettuce, spinach, bok choy, etc.) and it has done well for most everything over quite a few seasons now. I should say that the garden where I grow tomatoes doesn't have especially fertile soil. I kid the neighbor that my tomatoes get nervous when they hear the sound of his mower but otherwise they seem to do okay with lawn fertilizer. Ingredients: Blood Meal, Dried Poultry Waste, Feather Meal, Bone Meal, and Sulfate of Potash.

DigitSteve

Here is a link that might be useful: How did Great . . . Grandmother avoid crosses?

Thanks for all that information on the fertilizers. My tendency would be to overdo it, so I'm going to wait a month as you suggest to reapply, unless of course, they start talking to me. We have horse properties nearby, and I'm thinking of asking them for some manure. Any thoughts on one type animals' offerings vs. another?

toppertea

My experience is not so much the species but the feed stuff the animals have been eating. None of their systems get hot enough to kill seeds, so what ever is in the feed is what you will be planting, unless you compost everything. Even then, given the choice of cow or horse I would still pick horse. Cow hay is generally lesser quality, more weeds, so more weed seeds.

I'm not a knowledgable tomatoe gardener. Have always done well and tend to stay with what works for me. A question though to the experts. I planted four different types. Three are great, but one has turned yellow leafed and looking poorly. They are all within 2-3 foot of each other, so soil and water should be the same. This plant was given to me, looked healthy and is a yellow plum tomatoe. I can't quite remember, but think the leaves were a lighter green than the others. Any ideas why it is getting yellow leaves and looking so sick? Do you need more information?

No expert here but yellowing of the foliage (chlorosis) may be caused by just about everything: disease, overwatering, underwatering, etc.

Just as a shot in the dark, I'm going to suggest overwatering in that Colorado clay (of course, you wouldn't want to "overreact" on that one) or allelopathy.

Aren't I correct in believing that this is a new garden site for you, Sandy? And, aren't there quite a few trees nearby? Allelopathy refers to the chemical inhibition of one plant species by another. Like black walnut trees essentially poisoning any other plant growing near them.

Really, just a shot in the dark and some varieties of tomatoes aren't nearly as dark a green as others.

digitS'

I can second the weed seed and feed quality of cow manure. I spread some in the garden last year and a number of never-before-seen weeds made appearances earlier this spring.

Also, I started tomatillos last year both indoors and late outdoors. The outdoor direct plantings had much thicker stems and larger tomatillos than the miniature indoor jiffy pellet starts. This year I went the direct sow route.

I also experimented this year with transplanting earlier. Due to last year's late start, which may have been an advantage for the tomatillos, I started some roma and celebrity seedlings in .... January. We have an empty 2nd story room with a south facing window. Well, I eventually transplanted one each of the tomatoes into an 8 inch pot and another two into four inch pots. The plants in 8 inch pots shot up, of course, probably way too leggy. They are now outside with new dark green growth, although the older growth, including a couple of tomatoes, looks really yellow. The ones in the four inch pots are also outside, looking very dark green (blue-ish?), but also probably a little too leggy.

Here's the interesting part, the remaining plants I put into an early section of the garden. I was thinking that they had to be transplanted, but there was no room for all of them, so I tried the mini-green house. I put them into the garden probably in March (I need to document my experiments better) I cut the bottom off of a clear plastic 2 quart juice container (and gallon milk containers when I ran out of juice bottles) and "planted" that over each plant. On sunny days, I took off the cap for additional ventilation. Now all the bottles are off, I removed them when the plant started growing out of the opening of the container after the caps had been off for some time. I only lost two or three of maybe ten plants. The plants look much healthier than the larger pot transplants, but I hope I haven't stunted their growth somehow. I did notice one of them appears to be developing blossoms, but none are over a foot tall. I started some eggplants using the same method, but a much later start indoors.

I think I've read about the importance of early development and the impact of stress early on, but I'll have to see later this year, unless someone already knows the answer, how this method will impact growth and production. Also, any thoughts on whether I should be pinching off the blossoms in favor of plant growth? I guess I didn't do it for the 8 inch pot transplants...

emagineer, I'm with Digit, and I'd guess with the wet spring the clay is saturated. Too much water causes the leaves to yellow. Just hope we get some drier weather for a bit. (Did I really say that after a decade of drought?!?)

cyclewest, picking blossoms is totally a personal preference. I let them go to get early fruit. Others prefer to pick them and let the roots develop more. Your choice. Whatever you want to do. Wow! January seeding! Mine were started in mid-March and they almost took over the basement. You are a daring soul! Good luck with your experiments!

Yes a new garden Digit. But, the area is wonderful soil and definitely not clay. It is an area which was under a brick patio I moved. The only place which gets full sun. Lots of black dirt, some sand included, good worms and I added sheep fertilizer along with soil amendment. The other tomatoes look great and over a foot tall. Seedlings (okra, beets, peas, eggplant, chard) are growing quite well. Even the corn is an inch high.

Tis just this one lonely tomatoe plant that looks sick. I may just take him away (quarantine like the guy on the plane). Perhaps plant in a pot alone and baby sit rather than take a chance the others could get what he has. Notice Digit, that he is a he.

I hope it isn't the Ildi. I don't remember who got it, but if it is, the rest of mine look good, so it's probably not diseased.
They are the two lighter green ones on the left in my *just* planted tomato patch:
{{gwi:1194424}}

And here's more awaiting pickup:
{{gwi:1194425}}

I love tomatoes and grow a lot. I have 80 tomato plants this year ( I do Farmer's Market - not totally crazy!) I also grow in hoop houses which gives me an edges on the cool nights and frequent frosts. I am south of Hamilton Montana. I have tried many varieties looking for those that are tasty and will ripen. So each year I try several new varieties.
Many have blossoms already this year. It should be an early year like last year was.
Aussie*, Opalka*, Celebrity, Big Beef* Polish Ellis* Aunt Gerty's Gold, Aunt Ruby's German Green* Brandywine* Kellog's Breakfast* Moskavich*,Kotlas*,Big Rainbow*, Erali Belle*,Cherokee Purple*, Norweigan*, Marianna's Peace, Pink Heirloom*, Abel*, Pruden's Purple, Neves Azorean*, Kimberly, Fireworks*, Legend*,Pinneaple*, Beleive, Rose*, Omar*, Red Robin*, Amana Orange*, Fusion, Greg Altai, Kosovo*, Azoychka*, Tidewell German*, Red Barn*, Red Penna*,Early Wonder*,Sun Gold*, Black Cherry*, Sweet Million*, Isis Candy*, Jelly Bean*, Yellow Pear*, Gold Nugget*. Those * I have grown before.

I do trade seeds.

Margaretmontana, I will be curious if your Aunt Gerty's Gold turn out as well as mine do, now 3 years in a row.

As I think I mentioned earlier up this thread, growing tomatoes in the Rocky Mt region is not the same as growing them in, say Ohio, where the taste can be enormously more intense and different then what is achievable here with the cool nights and much shorter growing season. So all those varieties that folks elsewhere rave about, may just be so-so here. I've tried all those Brandywine Suddeth strain and so many others; they're good, and every now and again I can pick a fruit thats so good, I can understand what all the fuss is about. But generally, a whole lot seems to get lost when trying to do it here.

But that Aunt Gerty's Gold turns heads. It would be worthwhile, I think, that we Rocky Mountain growers compare notes.

Margaretmontana, I'm glad you found your way onto this thread. I remember your comments last year on the tomatoes in your garden and knew you have a real interest.

Nearly purchased Fireworks seed but it would have required a single-packet order or some convoluted efforts. Fireworks has been recommended by some as a very productive variety for the NW Interior. It doesn't seem to have much popularity nation-wide, however.

My Pruden's transplants look really nice - very pleased so far.

Has anyone grown Cherokee Chocolate? I've kinda assumed Purple was outside my possibilities as an 80 day tomato but some sources have listed Chocolate as a 75 day variety.

And, what about the Mountain series of tomatoes? They are considered a "strong determinate." I'm not entirely sure what might be "strong" but it is the "weakness" of determinates that sours me on them. I hate watching plants weaken and die when there are weeks left to the growing season. Maybe there are determinates which can stay healthy and productive to the end of the season. Or, maybe I should just grow a determinate that produces late so that after a decent crop comes off the plant, an Autumn frost can put it out of its misery.

digitS'

Netter, I just went out to check on them. And....I lied. The yellow you gave me is beautiful and doing great. Tis the other one that is sick and it is a standard Better Boy. Remember that I ended up taking all the leftovers when leaving the plant swap...was the one that had room in her garden.

Am glad you posted and that I kept the tags with the plants. I'm not as concerned with the plant now, but whatever the problem I need to get it out of there away from the others.

Thanks all for answering. Onward to the important tomatoe conversation.

Better Boys are resistant to most of the blights, diseases, etc., so I'm thinking it's still something other than disease. Another thing that comes to mind that can cause a plant to look sick is an overdose of fertilizer. I'll be curious to hear what the roots look like when you dig it up.

Steve, I grew the original Mountain a few years ago. Nice harvest and good tomato. I'm growing Skorospelka, another determinate, again. It is interesting because it has two waves of production. Nice firm tomato, but not as tasty as many. Nice for some early canning though.

One I'm growing for the first time is a semi-determinate (doesn't make sense to my literal mind) called Sheyenne. I tasted it at my cousin's place in Chadron, NE. Wonderful flavor. It is a favorite in the upper midwest and comes in around 70 dtm. I'll let you know how they do (they were spared by the storm, thanks to the big blue spruce behind them).

I haven't done Cherokee Chocolate. Fireworks is a determinate with salad size tomatoes. Not outstanding but doesn't take a lot of space. It did go in late last year so hoping to see better results this year. I did Cheyenne 3 years ago and was disapointed. It was determinate and about 1 1/2 feet tall (would have made a patio container plant - a little bigger plant than red robin)I got 2 tomatoes from it.

Hey Margaret, I made an attempt to count those varieties - - over 40!?! Some peeeopllle . . . what's that - 1.6 plants per variety? I'd lose myself in a tomato patch with that much diversity. If I could get away with it, can't think of too many better ways to have fun.

Fireworks? - Well, I'm confused but not only is that my common state but it hardly matters this season since I didn't order Fireworks seed. Tomato Growers Supply has them as indeterminate/60 days. But, I see a Fireworks II as a determinate/50 days. Two different tomatoes. Fifty days!?! How 'bout those early numbers?

Not only are the very, very early choices limited by not growing determinates but I wouldn't at all mind having a lot of tomatoes in a rush at various times thru the season. My problem is seeing the plants die after producing and often with a lot of fruit on them. (I guess the spots on the fruits and the cause of death, or extreme illness, are blight. I have thought to call any spots that result in rotting as "blossom end rot" but know that's not always the cause.)

Another big plus for determinates is the compact size of the plants - many people don't bother to stake them. Well heck, I tend not to stake indeterminates but suffer for my laziness. The patch turns into such a jungle that I can't walk thru it - I pretend to be a savage beast prowling the perimeter (carrying buckets ;o) while DW sneaks thru the underbrush.

We grew Husky Red Cherry last year and it is a compact, "husky" indeterminate. The fruit was nice and sweet but very slow and late ripening. Barely got most of them off the plant before frost and that came late in 2006.

That "original Mountain" is Mountain Spring, right? It would be a relief to have better behaved tomato plants (savage gardener, tame plants ;o).

digitS'

That "original Mountain" is Mountain Spring, right? It would be a relief to have better behaved tomato plants (savage gardener, tame plants ;o).

Yuppers, that's the first. I honestly don't think the others are quite as good as that first one. They are good, but the Mt. Spring is still the best to my taste buds.

Margaret, my Red Robins on the front porch are two feet tall at three months and the Sheyennes out back in an earthbox are already that tall. I dunno. But I know it isn't a cherry.

I got my tomatoes in late this year because I was getting sprinklers installed and re-did my garden area, so we'll see what happens. I have Cherokee Purple and Cherokee Chocolate side by side, so I'll be able to compare the two. I figure if I don't get a lot of fruit I'll be happy to at least save seeds as my seeds were thrown out by helpful children---100+ varieties of tomato seeds and 20 varieties of peppers. So, I'll be starting over with my seed collection. The folks over at a tomato place I visit are really nice though and will probably help me out.

Tyff

Well, I went out to buy seeds and came back with tomatoes, too! I have no idea what to do with these things, vegetables I guess is what they are called :) I thought I'd better post a link to the tomato forum, so I did. I also figured that many tomato growers may not understand my climate, so I copied and pasted my posting below. If any of you have an idea what I should do, I'd love to know. I think I'll start with reading my general garden book so I can at least get the area ready for planting...unless I can keep these babies inside??? That is probably wishful thinking...

Thanks a bunch!

***************************************

Hello. I'd love some help. I perused the postings and am totally overwhelmed! Any basic/first-timer help would be greatly appreciated.

We just bought two plants, both heirloom, from a nursery over 3000 feet lower than where the plants will live. They are Tommy toe, a cherry, and Mortgage lifter, a pink.

I am way up here in zone four, in the rocky mountains, at about 8240 feet above sea level. I did buy two roses from the same nursery and they seam quite happy.

First question:
Can I grow tomatoes inside? I live in a house that is ALL windows and the sun is magnificent. It is more humid inside than it is outside.

Second question:
Do they have to be put in the ground? They are in plastic pots, 6" in diameter and 7 1/2" in height. The plants are 10" high and 11" high, measuring from the top of the soil. I have a feeling I am asking a very silly question!

Third question:
They each have some flowers and fruit. The fruit is extremely small and green. The shop clerk suggested getting rid of both fruit and flower and letting it put its energy into the roots once planted.

Main deal:
I am in an area that has barely any growing season, like none...the last frost is June 15th, but snow or hail comes once a month except July. I do use a translucent plastic tarp for my flowers when there is a hail burst, so I could do the same for the tomatoes. Example of short season--down the mountain by 18 miles, the lilacs have finished blooming. Here, they are just popping out leaves. Does this mean I should or should not try tomatoes outside?

Honestly, I am slowly learning what to do hear, but I wanna get these puppies producing fruit before the season ends so any help would be absolutely wonderful!!

I thank you all in advance,

J.

I recommend you plant them in the warmest, sunniest place you have! TheyÂre both too big to grow in potsÂunless you have some VERY large pots. (There are small "patio" tomatoes, BTW, that you can grow in pots.) Cherry tomatoes tend to produce earlier than larger tomatoes, and I bet youÂll get some ripe ones. For the earliest frosts you can cover them, and if they have green fruit when you get your first hard freeze, you can cut them off at the ground and hang the vines in the garage or somewhere, where at least some of the tomatoes will ripen slowly. I do that every year, and I recommend cutting off the leaves when you bring them in, otherwise the leaves make a BIG mess when they dry and fall off. I was still eating tomatoes well into January this last year. I doubt that youÂll get much on the larger one. What I looked up showed 85 days to produce, and I doubt that youÂll get that. But youÂve already got them, so you have nothing to loose by planting them out. ItÂll be a good trial for youÂmaybe in more ways than one! ;-)

When you plant them, remove a few of the lower leaves and then bury them all the way up to the remaining leaves. Tomatoes are one of the few things that will form roots all the way along the stem. And, if it was me, IÂd leave the flowers and the beginning fruit on it. Others may have other recommendations for that. And theyÂll need pretty regular watering. And IÂll let the tomato experts take it from there! I donÂt get too technical! I just stick them in the groundÂand pray!

Good luck,
Skybird

jchaber, first thing is get those babies into at least five gallon containers to grow and flourish. No biggie there, you can use most anything from a five gallon pickle bucket from a restaurant to a more expensive decorative pot. Stake them with a sturdy pole of some sort to climb. Make sure there are drainage holes in them.

I know I'm contradicting our dear skybird and she offers good advice, but I'm a container gal and I've always had good harvests with containers.

Whether you pick the blossoms or not is purely your choice - if you do, energy will go to root production and if you don't you'll have early, if small, tomatoes.

Given your shorter than usual season, I would seriously consider growing them inside. That late-season Mortgage Lifter tomato just won't make it outside to ripening and harvest. The tommy toe should be okay if you should choose to plant it outside. Most cherries start ripening in 70 days or less from transplant.

For next year, stay around here and we'll let you know how the various varieties do in shorter seasons. :) Good luck to you!

Tyff, sorry to hear about the seeds! That's rough!

Eeeeek! DonÂt apologize for contradicting me, Jali! I wonÂt be able to post around here anymore if people arenÂt willing to post opposing opinions. ThereÂs too much good info around here to be limited to just one opinion.

I donÂt really know a whole lot about tomatoes, so I was just saying what IÂd recommend based on my experience. IÂve never had much luck with pots myself. When I tried to grow them indoors, I always wound up having them covered with whitefly, and when I grew them in pots outside for a few years it worked a little bit better, but they still never did that wellÂat least compared to now when IÂm able to plant them directly in the ground. And even when I had them in pots outside, I still wound up with way more whitefly than I do now. With them in the ground, I donÂt usually see the whitefly until really late in the season, so they never have time to get really bad. Of course growing them in pots when youÂre gone for days at a time didnÂt help the situation, but most of them were in pots that were much bigger than 5 gallon, and I had a neighbor who was watering, so that wasnÂt the whole problem.

I agree that the Mortgage Lifter isnÂt going to make it before it freezes. And definitely do come back here in late winter next year for recommendations from the real tomato experts around here, J. With the right varieties, and with your good indoor light, I donÂt see why you couldnÂt start them inside WAY early and have BIG plants to put out when itÂs safeÂeither in the pots or in the ground. One thing I just thought of, if you do try to grow them inside, youÂre going to need to hand pollinate themÂwhich is easy to do. I usually hand pollinate mine early in the season even when theyÂre outside! Just a sort of backup plan to the bees! ;-)

Please, please, please donÂt anybody be afraid to say what works for you just because something else is working for me. ThereÂs no one right way to handle this addiction!

:-)
Skybird

Well, I'm chancing them outside in pots. Thanks for all the advice!! I think they will do alright as I am putting the cherry in a five gallon and the bigger one in a pot a little bit bigger. Luckily, I stay at home playing with dogs and digging around in the dirt, so they will have a keen, although un-tomato-familiar, eye on them.

Do whiteflies really come way up here? My, gosh, I must be living in a bubble!

I just placed the mortgage lifter in its pot with freshly sifted, treated and mixed soil. It fits nicely in the tomato stand that someone left down the hill by the creek! It is the third one I've found just floating around as debris. What-ever!! I like free stuff, but, I wish people didn't litter so much.

I think my stakes are all too short, I have a few that are three feet, but nothing higher. Off to Ace I go...

I will put a photo up, if I can figure it out, once they are both in their new homes.

Yay! Planning for next year! I'm already ready...

Thanks a zillion,

J.

ThatÂs a good question! Does anybody up in the rarified air above 5280 have whitefly? I kind of assumed they were everywhere, but I donÂt actually know that.

Anybody have a whitefly report?

I think youÂre gonna have fun, J, whether you get any/many tomatoes or not! But IÂm pretty sure you will get some of the cherries! You will definitely need something higher than 3' for the stakes. I switched from the tallest tomato cages to 6' stakes a couple years ago, and by the end of summer theyÂre hanging over the tops of those! I have a recommendation. If you put 3 stakes in each pot and tie them together at the top like a teepee, itÂll be easier to tie them than with just one stake, and itÂll be a LOT more stable than just one stake when it gets heavy. Or just put 3 stakes in a pot and donÂt tie them together, and every time they grow up another foot or so, tie twine all the way around the 3 stakes to cage them as they grow.

Enjoy,
Skybird

Hi - I have planted my first crop of tomatoes! One bush type, one cherry tomato and one roma tomato. Last week I saw little yellow flowers on all of them, although the plants are very small. I pinched the flowers off - now there are more flowers. Should I continue to pinch them back until the plant is really big? Thanks - any other advice please feel free to tell me. (2 are in the ground, one in a container.)I know you are all talking variety here but you all sound like experts. Thanks - citypigeon.

I remove flowers if they are on the plants when setting out. That's it.

Once growth has started, I don't think it is important to inhibit the plant producing fruit. For many varieties in this corner of the world, the chance to set and ripen tomatoes would be lost. I'd be turning my early tomatoes into late varieties. They may never ripen!!

digitS'

Hi City,

Welcome to RMG.

Everytime you pinch off a little yellow flower, picture a big red tomato in your head, and don't pinch off anymore of the little yellow flowers! :-) If they're ready to start blooming, they're ready to start producing tomatoes, and from here on out, they'll keep producing flowers AND keep growing. Now is the time to start watching the flowers, and as they dry up and look like they're going to fall off, you'll see a little round green tomato developing right at the base of the flower. That's the time to start cheering! After that it really won't seem to take too much time before they develop into full size tomatoes, but once they're full size, it'll seem to take FOREVER until they start to ripen! But you'll really only notice that a lot on the first few that ripen, because once some of them start to ripen you'll find you're more interested in eating them than in watching them! So just let them bloom and do their own thing---and enjoy! With your warm weather back there, they should do very well with little help.

Since our climates are so very different, if you should have any problems with them, you might want to check out the New Jersey Forum to get more local advice, or the Tomato Forum---I understand there's some really good advice to be found there.

Have fun,
Skybird

Here is a link that might be useful: New Jersey Gardening

Hi! Digit mentioned taking off the flowers when first planting? I planted my tomatoes in a pot last weekend and did not remove the flowers. Should I do this?

Not necessarily, Coloradobird.

I have some Bloody Butchers this year (aka Jaliranchr's). One of the things I'm most interested in with regards to this vareity is how early they can ripen fruit. It doesn't serve the purpose to remove the flowers.

Yes, the plants should grow larger and be more productive if they have a chance to grow some before ripening fruit but that's just in the relative scheme of things. Removing the flowers is likely not to make a whole heck of a lot of difference.

digitS'

OK, thanks. I planted an Early Girl and a cherry tomato (don't remember the variety). The cherry has quite a lot of flowers on it, EG doesn't have too many.

Next year, I think I will plan better and plant something more interesting. Last year, I planted a Better Boy and didn't get anything. Maybe he was too big to do well in a pot. EG always does okay in a pot and cherries have in the past, too. I always forget to do the research on tomatoes and end up at the store and buy EG because she's at least been reliable for me!

Thanks!

Thanks Skybird and Digits!
Sorry it took so long for the thank you but I am new here and then couldn't find my post! Yes, since I wrote, my tomato plants are FULL of flowers - I am very excited!
Take care,
City