If you can babysit them from drying out, get them in the sun full-time.

That's the problem with trying to grow them on windowsills and such=== there's hardly ever enough light that they tend to get leggy.

Your best bet is to invest in a shoplight. This way, no babysitting on drying out, no insects(except fungus gnats and aphids), no legginess, no limit on hours of light(limit to 16 hours ON).

Kevin

Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the insight.

For now I can only go with option 1, but can probably get them in a spot that will get nice afternoon sun and then from there I can monitor/babysit them each day.

However, I'm confused because I thought during another post, we were talking about the cotyledons not needing any sun?

What was said was that they don't really switch over to full metabolism until they get true leaves. The cots aren't the metabolic factories that true leaves are. But cots do use light to supplement the seed package, so the lack of light delays the appearance of the true leaves. In other words, the plants can't fully use daylight until true leaves appear, but they do need light or growth slows dramatically.

The recommendation to take them out of full sunlight was to avoid heating and drying out the soil around the still-small roots.

IMO if you could ensure that the soil remains moist and relatively cool, putting seedlings into direct sunlight wouldn't be terrible. (I've never tried it so take the suggestion with a grain of salt.)

Dennis

Thanks all for the help and advice! I'll start introducing them to afternoon sun and see how it goes... I'll monitor to make sure they aren't drying out as well.

Hi All,

So its been almost 10 days and I've tried to get them as much sun as possible (while keeping them moist/preventing them from drying out), but growth as been SUPER slow. There are tiny little inklings of new leaves appearing, but nothing even close to substantial. Unfortunately it hasn't been super sunny here the past week, but they are getting 2-4 hours/day.

Is there anything extra I can do the boost this growth and get them going?

(On a side note, they all are still very green and look super healthy).

2-4 hours of direct sun? That's not very much, especially if cots are less efficient than leaves. (Remember, a lot of this is an informed guess on my part.) What about the rest of the day? Partial sun? Heavy shade? Any way to supplement the light?

If it's not the light, then I'd have to start suspecting the soil.

Dennis

You could find yourself a piece of shade cloth or a old yard sale table cloth to protect them outside or a CFL bulb 6500K and light them up at least 12hr a day. As Dennis commented have to have proper soil seedlings are like kids all they want to do is eat

DMForcier - Unfortunately they have been receiving limited sun these days, mostly due to the weather. I'm afraid to leave them outside all day as I can bring them in if it rains.. quite risky at this stage (I'm in a tropical environment so you never know what the day will bring!)

If its the soil, could it be lacking nutrients?

I didn't want to go the indoor light route, but I'll see what I can find. I think it should be easy to find a CFL Bulb 6500k around here if something like this would work:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Electric-200W-Equivalent-Daylight-6500K-Spiral-CFL-Light-Bulb-ESL40TN-D/203252142

What do you think?

Why avoid rain? If the soil drains and doesn't act like a sponge, the roots will be fine.

True and the soil drains really well, but I think we are going through a period of what they call "winter" here where we won't get much sun everyday.

I think with that, I'll finally go the indoor lighting route to get them started and then transplant them to their new outdoor garden once they have a few sets of real leaves.

I'm going to buy one of those bulbs and a lamp shade to hover over the plants. How close should they be and can I go straight to 12 hours or do I need to harden off with indoor lighting too?

I started a half dozen plants this year under a CFL and they did great. I kept the light super close to the plants, almost touching the leaves. Keep it as close as you can without getting the plant to hot.

Im not sure about reverse hardening. Might be good to ease them into the artificial light.

Here is what mine looked like after being grown under a small CFL on a timer for about 16 hrs a day . The photo was taken on the first day of hardening them.

dj

djoy - they look great! How many weeks of growth is that at 16 hours/day?

Also, which wattage bulb did use?

I think I germinated those seeds in Feb and the pic above (after double checking) was actually taken may 16 so they had been hardened off for a week and full sun for about a week.

I kept my seedlings on a tray that sat over a heat duct. The soil was kept pretty warm 65-80 F depending on how much heat we used. As soon as they popped up I used this clamp on light It has a 23 watt 1600 lumen CFL in it and a decent white reflector behind the bulb. I kept the surface soil dry by watering occasionally from the bottom. The vent gave me good air circulation which is also important.

dj

Wow, so it took around 2 months to get that sort of growth?

Yikes, I was hoping it would be a little quicker, LOL!

I just purchased a 6500K, 90W CFL bulb, similar to the one in your picture and with a similar lamp as well. I'll ease them into the artificial light by how far I keep the light from the actual plants at 12 hours a day and then boost up to 16 hours when they are ready.

I'll keep everyone posted, thanks again for the help!

In addition to what I said above... Once true leaves appeared on mine I had to walk a fine line between too much and not enough water. My starting soil retained water a little too much. I found that I could let it dry out to the point of minor stress (slight drooping), it happens fast at that age but when I let them get to that point then promptly watered they loved it. So if you check on em regularly dont be afraid to let them dry out a little If the stems start to get soft and want to fall over... my opinion is its time to let them dry out a bit. Just my experience and opinion... I am no pro.

dj

djoy - noted. I've been to that stage in growth with my other plants and totally agree its sometimes better to err on the over dry side than over water side. Attached is a pic of my new high-tech indoor lighting system.

DMForcier - I could only pick up one lamp and bulb, so I put my most important peppers under that, the others I'll leave outside and see what happens. I'll report back.

I'd get that lamp even closer. As close as you can get it.

One guy here made a box lined with aluminum foil as a reflector. His plants outgrew the box pretty quickly, which problem I know you wish you had...

Dennis

Dennis - Thanks for the tip, here is my make-shift setup (I have a few others that couldn't fit in the old setup that I'm going to bring in tomorrow).

As a follow-up, when you mentioned you thought it could be the soil, what could be the problem? I ask because while I haven't used this soil to germinate and get the plants going, I have used this soil before for other plants past that phase and they have thrived and produced a lot (in pots).

On a side note, just out of curiosity, if these little guys were to be transplanted garden-style, is there any chance they survive and thrive?

As always, many thanks!

This post was edited by salevene on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 21:28

Hey Guys,

So its been over a week and I don't really see any progress in these little plants. I was expecting to see something with 14 hours of solid light in the aluminum wrapped box.

Any ideas? I heard talk about the soil, but I use that soil for other plants that have really took off... why would it be different for newly germinated plants?

Thanks in advance.

Hmmm.. Couple of things to consider if you haven't already. What is your soil temperature like? (not just the surface temp). I found that my little cfl did not heat up my seedlings much and that while keeping the house between 63-70 the soil would still be cooler.

Are you letting the soil dry between watering? When I started I let a couple seedlings go longer without water and they loved it. I even let a couple go till they showed a little stress, and they did fine.

What percentage of nutrients are in the soil? I am finding hot peppers have different needs than other plants/vegies, You might consider a slow release fert like osmoc**** if the nutrients are low, that way you wont risk splashing anything harmful on the delicate growth and they will slowly start getting more as you water.

Patience, I was very surprised at how slow growing some peppers can be. If they look healthy and green be patient.

Did you say what kind of soil you are using??

dj

Hey DJ,

Well, I tried to measure the soil with a thermometer today, but it wouldn't read for some reason (I think because the new soil I put it in is very "loose" (see pic)). With that said, its a constant 75 here all year round, with most days reaching into the high 70s/low 80s during the day and at night, usually bottoming out in the mid-60s, occasionally lower. Inside the apartment, where I have the CFL light, I would venture to say that it does get hotter in here during the day, but temp. doesn't really fall as drastic as it does outside.

Yup, for sure. I definitely wait plenty before I water... until its really dried out. I've been very cognizant of that.

Unfortunately I won't be able to measure the nutrients, but the soil I was using seemed to have compacted a lot (even though it drained really well). The new soil is actually from a hill of grass, leaves, branches, etc. that has been composting for years. We are breaking it down a bit, and I grabbed this from the bottom and re-planted it on Sunday. I noticed actually that the roots had barely any growth in the other soil and I'm wondering if that has to do with how compact it was....

I'm giving them about 14-16 hours of light per day.

I am not the most knowledgeable person here... Hopefully the new soil will help. However, I have a feeling that your problems are two fold.

1: At this young stage they need consistency. Too much disturbance could put them into temporary shock. Be patient. Once they go into shock they kind of go dormant and it can take a week or two before they recover and start growing again. Stunted.

2: The soil looks to be full of organic matter, (leaves, bark, twigs...) things that retain a lot of moisture. I don't see much sand, gravel, perlite... Roots need oxygen. With your soil compacting already it seems you could use something like perlite that holds it up more.

If these were mine, I would experiment with one or two at a time, not the whole lot. I would keep a couple of em as they are and give em consistent light while allowing the soil to dry between watering. Then you may see benefits one way or the other.

Maybe someone more experienced can explain more or help you better. Good luck!

dj

One more thought.... If you can get ahold of some osmocote veg. Try adding a small amount (half a dozen little balls) around one or two of them before watering.. Could be you soil just doesn't have enough N,P or K

Thanks DJ, it was actually the other soil that was compacting. Yes, it has that stuff in the new soil, but it seems to have very good drainage for now. I think I'll need to really monitor the humidity of the soil to make sure they don't dry out too quickly.

I'll check into that fert. Thanks again.

Kevin, Dennis, DJ - you guys rock (as always).

As per your suggestions, I switched up the soil (grabbed the compost from that big hill we are working on) and put it under the 6500K light around 14-15 hours/day. FINALLY, although a tad slow, I have some growth... feels good LOL.

Those are happy looking seedlings. Congrats.

Dennis

It feels good to me too! I am stoked for you! Thanks for updating us on your progress! (some dorks just ask for advice, use it and move on) I look forward to seeing how things go.

dj