I generally use mulch when I can. It adds organic matter to the soil, which is badly needed, and also helps keep weeds at bay and helps keep moisture in the soil.

Use mulch. For many, many reasons.

Dan

Like stated above I highly recommend using mulch. Jay

Try it, you'll like it!

I like things pretty close together too, but since perennials get bigger and bigger every yearand some of them seem to move around every yearÂit can wind up looking like a big jumble, depending on just what the perennials are. IÂm in the process of getting rid of some of mine right now, and digging up and dividing others. Sometimes they look better if theyÂre not quite so up close and personal! Just how close you want them is a matter of personal preference, but even if you decide to plant them really close, in this climate, mulch is gonna be SO helpful.

Welcome to RMG! If you have time, sign in on the WhoÂs Here in Â09 thread!

Skybird

I always use mulch.I do jam packed cottage bed design all the time.That includes ground covers under my plants as well.But if you really want to keep the bed looking full and nice Mulch it.Think four seasons as well..When you jam pack plants they use nutrients and water quicker.An organic mulch helps with both.
Remember as well that some of the plants for our areas that are low water are high heat.I believe some of Laurens are based on these.They need a gravel mulch to keep the drainage at the optimum as well as bring in the extra heat that makes them so great for the areas.
In my own garden ,plants are jam packed but it still gets a good straw mulch, as well as an alfalfa pellet feeding in the spring to keep my maintenance down.My gardens are to big to not take the time to mulch.If we have a photo shoot I top it off with some nice bark that darkens to a soil color and breaks down.Most people do not notice the mulch much anymore.Even the straw disappears quickly with plant growth.
M

Hello all,

Thanks for the replies. I've known about the benefits of mulch but thought that maybe I could get away without it. I guess mulching makes a lot of sense, especially here in Colorado. I will look into a darker mulch that will be closer to normal soil color and not as noticeable. Have any of you used compost as mulch? I don't have a large area so it wouldn't be cost prohibitive to use compost.

Thanks again,

Bart

Hello,

By the way, here is the text from "Passionate Gardening" that I was referring to:

"So why don't I mulch? Herbaceous plants, with their shallow root systems, become stunted and starved when the typical bark or wood chips are used. All mulches made from harder parts of plants - cocoa hulls, ground corncobs, bark, and the like - rob nitrogen from the soil. These organic mulches decompose slowly, and the microorganisms causing the process need all the nitrogen in the top layer of the soil, which they use at the expense of the plants. Another problem with organic mulches is that they often release volatile compounds that can burn the foliage and stems of soft plants. So if one is to use this type of mulch at all, it should go around only deep-rooted woody plants. I put a skirt of bark mulch around the trees in my garden.

In a rock or dry land garden, organic mulches are even worse. Mediterranean, native western, and most mountain plants resent the added humus and water retention they bring, and may even be poisoned by the by-products of their decomposition.

The best mulch of all is living plants, and I use them more than any pebble, pine needle, or bark chip. As plants mature, they begin to serve all the functions of the finest hauled-in material. Our region's dry air lets us cram plants tightly together, which makes for a full, lush, exciting garden in short order."

The book does state that organic mulch should definitely be used in the shade garden since most shade-loving plants are native to moist wooded areas where dropping leafs create a thick layer of water-retentive mulch.

Just thought that you might be interested in what Rob/Lauren recommend about using mulch.

Bart

Compost makes great mulch as long as you are mulching to conserve moisture. It actually acts as a great breeding ground for weeds. Be sure to keep the compost a few inches away from the base of your plants and keep it 3-4 inches thick and you will love the way it conserves moisture and feeds the soil.

With 20 cows and as many horses we have lots of the stuff to make compost and I still use bark mulch around the flowers and shrubs because of the weed seeds that get blown in.

Bonnie

Springer and Proctor have much good advice to offer to Rocky Mountain Gardeners in their book Passionate Gardening. They have strong opinions and describe many of them in this book - kind of appropriate for a book titled so.

Attended a lecture by these two when our local botanical garden hosted them for a talk and Q&A. Really expert plantspeople who know a ton about growing in the mountains.

As far as to mulch or not to mulch - I think it depends on the type of garden you are creating and a lot to do with the local conditions you are dealing with.

In our front yard I'd like to move to a dryer landscape plan. The soil there has been improved there over the years, so its pretty rich. For some xeric and native plants that might not be ideal. Some like leaner conditions. Maybe I'll not use an "organic" mulch there, instead using a gravel mulch, or no mulch and a more jam up, jelly tight planting of plants.

Interesting that Proctor notes in Passionate Gardening:

"Since I'm one of the so-called authorities who writes books, every reader of every gardening book should be cautioned that we make this stuff up. Well, actally, I do my best to be accurate - and then I make this stuff up."

Good luck with your garden - have fun experimenting and coming up with solutions that work for you. I hope you will keep us all posted as things progress.

Best, Chris/eatsivy

Ive been mulching with bark mulch for years and years, and Ive never had any of the problems Lauren (?) describes in that blurb. Yeah, compared to trees and bushes, some perennial roots are shallow, but very few of the roots, even for the shallow rooted things, are in the top couple inches of soil, and as long as the mulch is staying on the surface and not getting mixed more deeply into the soil, Im not sure why she thinks it causes a problem. As a matter of fact, I even use a thick layer of bark mulch on my whisky barrels in the front yard, and theyre planted entirely with annuals, which really do have shallow root systems, and Ive never even had a problem with them. When Im ready to plant in spring I just rake it all off with my hands and put the mulch in a couple big pots, then I put it back on the surface when Im done planting the new annuals.

Boy, if wood mulch on the surface causes problems for shallow rooted plants, Id gladly volunteer to buy a few truck loads of it for my neighbors to spread around their cottonwood trees!

Wood mulch definitely DOES cause a problem if much is mixed deeply into the soil. My neighbors mulched their veggie garden with bark mulch a few years ago. I winced when I saw it, and warned them that theyd need to rake it all off in fall or spring when they were cleaning up, but they didnt believe me and just turned it all under when they were prepping the garden for the next year. That was the year they had a non-veggie-garden! The plants didnt grow at all, looked awful, and produced very little. (They mulch the veggies with grass clippings now, to conserve moisture and keep the surface soft, which is what I do.)

And I dont know what kind of "often released volatile compounds" shes talking about. Ive never heard about that, tho I have, at times, wondered about that red dyed shredded wood stuff they sell. The manufacturers claim its non-toxic. But I think it looks awful anyway, so I dont need to worry about that, and even for somebody who likes the look, with our high altitude sun, that color would fade quickly anyway. I think Id still worry about that stuff tho, and dont know if Id trust the non-toxic claims! Just me!

And if wood/organic mulch causes problems for plants in sunny areas, why doesnt it cause the same problemsbinding nitrogen, volatile chemicalsfor plants that are in the shadewhere it would decompose even more quickly? Non sequitur!

One thing that can cause problems when mulching is if you get it too deep right around the plants and you bury the crown or have too much of the bottom of the foliage buried in the mulch. That will stifle the plants and rot the crowns out on some of them. I do mulch right up to the plants, but, depending on what the plant is, I thin the mulch out to the appropriate level right up against the plant. And for ground cover type things that you WANT to spread, theyll spread a lot faster and more densely if you keep the mulch pulled back just a little bit as they spread. If you DONT want them to spread, you just let them grow out onto the surface of the mulch and cut them off when they get bigger than you want. Thats for the ones that dont spread underground, of course.

I mulch for two reasons. I use bark mulch because I like the nice, even look it gives everything. I think its a really nice, neutral backdrop for the plants. And I hate the look of dried out, cracked up clay soil! And dry, hard clay soil is just about as hard to re-wet as dry peat is. Mulch helps keep the surface of the soil softer, even when its dry, so its easier to water when you need to, and the water soaks in more deeply, more quickly.

Alright! Now the confession! Ive never been a big fan of Lauren Springer! I agree, she knows a lot about dry land perennial gardening, but I have a big problem with her "absolutest" attitude! When I was at Paulinos, every time she gave a class wed have people come in with her handouts, and if we were out of some of the plants they wanted (needed!), and tried to recommend something else, the customers would be absolutely, positively certain that they couldnt use anything but what Lauren had TOLD them to use! NOTHING else was gonna work! I have a problem with that! Gardening is different for everybodyeverybodys gardens are different! Gardening, for me, is about funand imaginationand experimentingand moving things here and thereand replacing themand........... Wheres the fun if all the imagination is taken out of it! So when I was selling the plants, and people would come in and ask "what they should plant," Id repeat over and over, "Its your garden! What do you like? What color do you want? What height would look good?" Every now and then youd get somebody where you HAD to tell them what to buy, but with most people you could just show them a bunch of different things and start asking them which they thought were the prettiest/nicestwhich they liked the best. I used picture books a lot to show people the flowers to help them pick. Yes, I could have told them what they "should" plant, the way Lauren seems to, but when they got it home and it bloomed, they might not like what I thought they should plant.

I do like Rob! He used to hang out around Paulinos a lot when Kelly Grummons (now part owner of Timberline) was still there. He used one of our growing houses for his "experiments" until Kelly left, then he moved most of his stuff over to Timberline until he went to DBGwhere he has plenty of his own greenhouses so he doesnt need to mooch space anymore. Robs a fun, nice guy, and as Ivy notes, he acknowledges that they make it up as they go! My impression of Rob is that hes more open to the fun and experimenting, and not as "right" as Lauren isbut thats just my impression after dealing with so many people who had taken her classes.

The moral of the story istry it without mulch for a couple months to see how you like it and if its working for you. If its not, mulch it. Plant the plants close together, and if you dont think it looks right in a couple years, dig some of them up and move themor give them away to family, friends, and neighbors. Plant some groundcovers around the bottom of the plants to see if you get the result you hope for, looks and water wise. There are so many options and possibilitiesand youll never know for sure whats best for you if you dont try it.

Everybody likes something differentand with gardening, everybody can have something different. Thats the joy of gardening! So read the booksbut then make your own decisions! Or just go to the garden centers and go out into the yard and have funand skip the books all together!

Whatever you wind up with, have fun! Thats important!
Skybird

I use the mulch because, otherwise, all the moisture just evaporates in a day. I'm really happy with the way it helps keep the random hail from knocking my smaller plants right out of the soil.

Having just returned from my PNW visiting trip, I am so jealous of the blooms! Sometimes I forget about the incredible amounts of dogwoods, cherries and rhododendrons. I know what you mean about every garden looking the same and using the red cedar mulch. Funny, I like the way it looks :)

Among other beautiful flowers and trees, my brother and sister in law have a 16 foot high rhododendron, a two story high bright pink camellia and a three story high cherry. Oh, so jealous...in a good way!

With all the clay here, I think it is super helpful to mulch.

Now, if I could get a dogwood to be happy up here...

J

Your picture website "declined to show me the web page," Jennifer!

Now why is it I'm not surprised you like the RED mulch!!! I'm surprised you don't have your whole yard covered with RED gingham! (Inside joke, guys!)

;-)
Skybird

I found the link online...must not have been a creative commons licensing. Whoops! But, a good thing to search would be portland rhododendron gardens. so pretty there!!

You'd think it would be gingham, wouldn't you?! I have spread out: red and off-white stars, red and white stripes, solid red linen, red and grey plaid. oh, and blue/white gingham and beige/white gingham!

:)

I meant to take a million photos while there. I drove around my favourite parts of SE including Sellwood, Eastmoreland and then SW including Lake Oswego. The blooms were ALL out. Every yard had a park's worth of red mulch, dogwoods, cherries, apples, rhododendrons and azaleas, magnolias and michelias and all lined with tulips, blue bells of some sort and they all had their tiny Acer palmatum disectum atropurpureas. Every yard had dark moss and lichen covered rocks. Oy, vey!

Skybird, I think that was so well said!

I may know a person like that author. And yes, she has been writing.

We just "gravitate" away from each other. I've noticed: many, "gravitate" to her. Whatever . . .

Chris, I'm glad you posted that quote from Proctor in Passionate Gardening. Yeah!

I once gave a talk about cutting gardens. I said that I liked using cotton string since I could compost it when the season was over.

Now, I had used cotton string with wire for horizontal trellises for years and years but had never composted it. That was something new. A year later, I learned that cotton string won't decompose after a year in the compost pile. I still don't know how long it takes!?! If you bury it in the garden the string will still be there years later!!? What a b....y mess!!

I still worry someone in the audience believed me and tried that . . .

digitS♫

With the exception of rose stems, I'm now so bad, mulch-wise, that I never even remove 'winter interest' [euphemism for the dead stuff you're supposed to clean up and throw away] and leave it all, I just break off the old dead stuff and leave it right there by the new growth. And all the leaves that blow in and anything else organic that I can throw on top the soil. Thats in the flower beds by the house, that people can see. And I just add compost right on top of all that.

Out in the border, where no body really can see unless they walk right up to it, I flatten out cardboard boxes, put down newspaper and anything else that will rot, old pieces of ply wood, anything - and cover it all with grass clippings and leave it.

And then we can talk about all the black polypropylene mulch I use on the trees and in the vegetable garden.

Happy worms, I got.

Oh, Digit! Thats funnyabout the string! I have a big cone of thin twine that I got from my brother when he quit selling points, and I use it all over the place to tie things up over summer. Then, the first fall when I was cutting stuff down, I thought, cotton! Thisll be good for the compost pile! Last spring when I did all that sifting of the compost pile to get to the good stuff, there was the string! Unimpressed with the composting process! If I had taken the time to untangle and unknot it, I could have used it again!

No more twine on my compost pile!
Skybird

With all the "stuff" you have, David, I'm surprised that you have time to even "break off the old stuff!"

Whatever you're doing, it sure comes out looking pretty good!
Skybird

Oooh, I have a brother and sister-in-law in Portland too, Jennifer. Last time I visited was also in April, two years ago and she took me to the rhododendron garden one morning - fabulous! There's an old flowering cherry there of the same variety I had planted in my front yard a week before I went, so I was drooling over it. "My tree!" I said. "Look - Shirofugen!!" heehee...Just standing underneath all those blossoms and looking up dreamily (and thinking maybe one day, MY tree at home may get this big and beautiful)...I have a thing for flowering cherry trees...LOL :)

It's SO beautiful there, and really astounding how big things get. But it's all a trade-off - I don't know if I could stomach the winter...and fall...and spring! All that crappy weather to withstand for just three or four months of great weather. I like the sun too much!

Dianne

Hoo-boy.
"So why don't I mulch? Herbaceous plants, with their shallow root systems, become stunted and starved when the typical bark or wood chips are used. All mulches made from harder parts of plants - cocoa hulls, ground corncobs, bark, and the like - rob nitrogen from the soil. These organic mulches decompose slowly, and the microorganisms causing the process need all the nitrogen in the top layer of the soil, which they use at the expense of the plants. Another problem with organic mulches is that they often release volatile compounds that can burn the foliage and stems of soft plants. So if one is to use this type of mulch at all, it should go around only deep-rooted woody plants. I put a skirt of bark mulch around the trees in my garden.

Hopefully I won't step on any toes by saying this, but IME most landscape designers know little about horticulture, if anything. When I had my business in CA, a good chunk of it would be fixing landscape designer's mistakes.

It is true that soil crusts and retains moisture, as any farmer knows. But mulch takes N from the soil only for a short time, and the benefits outweigh the costs.

Sheesh.

There is a reason why that thing is not on my shelf.

Dan

Dan
I understand your opinion so well.I have cleaned up a lot of oops landscape designer and architects , ummm surprises.Especially when dealing with Native plants..LOL and well a couple years ago there was my favorite.
Very expensive mistake by the landscape architect not local.He had plants perennials(wrong zone) all over on a slope then added in a gravel base and rolled out sod.I tried to explain to him no cannot do that even told the owner..Well 20 grand in sod on an improper base not pinned down, Big rain storm then under ground sprinkler come on.Gravel and sod all slides down into the lake and causes a huge algae bloom with the amounts of fertilizer.Interesting to see how they explained that to shoreline..LOl Next spring no perennials either surprise.Very costly mistake
M

Oh wow, we are thinking about getting a landscaper to come and help make my sloping garden tiered, and now I'm scared to death they'll screw it up! Now what? Thankfully, I only want a pondless waterfall/feature! There isn't a lake anywhere, just the neighbors yard! Y'all make a lot of sense and I'll be sure to ask lots of questions... I'm planting, so that's not a worry! Well, maybe only a little! I'm big on mulch though!

Happy gardening all!
glo

Glo,
You could ask to see their previous work and to speak to their previous clients. I'm sure there are lots of good ones, you just want to find ones who have past customers that are happy to praise them!

Maybe you could ask to see some OLDER jobs, to see how long and well they lasted?

Glo,
My friend in WP worked for a landscape designer part time a couple years ago and had nice things to say about her. I can find out her name for you if you haven't selected someone yet.