Very, very nice (and attractive), Highalt.

I'm a little sleepy right now but wanted you to have this guidebook since you will be up an hour before I will there on Mountain Time (right?). You can download this as a pdf file if you think you'd like to print and carry it around but I'm thinking that you've probably got a fair amount of "literature," just need to hit point by point.

The authors cover: Spacing, Succession Planting, Vertical Gardening, etc. Important issues for you to get the maximum out of your intensive gardening.

DigitS'

Here is a link that might be useful: Intensive Gardening

Beautiful! Nicely done, Highalt.

Wow DigitS, what great information. This is exactly what I was looking for. Silly me, I was searching for companion planting, would not have ever found this. . . intensive spacing. Who knew?

Hey highalttransplant, great pictures. Love the rock on your house, it sure is not Tennessee but you seem to be managing quite well. CanÂt wait to see what you do get packed into that space. My thinking is that for your limits you may want to leave out the peppers and oregano. Peppers have too high a cost benefit ratio (cost is space and benefit is how many peppers you will get for that commitment of real-estate) and oregano tends to want to spread (maybe use it as a specimen plant elsewhere in the yard). I love to let my cilantro go to seed in the fall and then watch all the sprouts in the spring. If you have not already got your sunflower seeds, consider Valentine. They grow on low stems, many blooms to plant, grow well in a short season and besides they are just plain cute.

Bonnie

Highalt,

Very nice and clever how you melded the two edging materials. I love the fun color of your house too.

You can squeeze a lot into 60 sq ft. Herbs do well spaced close together. I once had a little herb garden 3'x3' on either side of some steps and grew a ton of herbs and some greens there and in pots along the steps. It was lovely, edible and neighbors regularly came by for a snip. You can get smaller more compact varieties too. Oregano and thyme do creep but are two of my favorite herbs for cooking.

Most times I headed out to the garden I took a little pair of pruners with me and gave mini haircuts frequently to keep it looking tidy. You can grow a lot vertically on your fence too.

I love to tuck Nasturtium seeds (not the vining type) into herbs and vegetables. You can put the flowers into salads or decorate cakes with them too. I'm going to plant some this weekend (if the snow melts!).

Steve I'm going to check out your link too :)

Have fun!

Charlene

Looks terrific, highalt!

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread, but I spent most of the day buying more topsoil and compost, working it in, and planting some new things in my perennial beds.

The landscape guy is supposed to come out early next week and swap out the mister heads for a soaker hose, and bring me more rock to finish that path.

Digit, thanks for that link, I printed it out. I just recently purchased 'The Postage Stamp Garden Book' which has that same information, but like you said, this way I have something to take with me when I am out there planting.

Luckybottom, (we have the same name BTW) the varieties of peppers I'm using are supposed to be compact, only getting 8" to 10" tall, so I'm hoping that will help, though I may put a couple in pots as well.

Charlene, My DH came up with the idea of using both types of edging that way. He definitely fits the description of handyman. I agree with you that oregano is a "must have", and for me basil is as well. The nasturtiums I bought are only supposed to get 12" tall, so I plan to put them along the front, mixed with some marigolds.

I took another picture today in the daylight:

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So do those of you that aren't planting in the traditional rows map out your plant placement beforehand, or go out with a tape measure, or just eyeball it?

Bonnie

Hi Highalt,

That turned out really nice! IÂm impressed! I recommend a rough sketch of what you plan to put where so you can get a feel for how many plants you can get in, and then sort of ad lib as youÂre actually planting. (I find a yardstickÂor twoÂmore convenient to use than a tape in my little garden.) Keep in mind that the spinach and lettuce will only last until it gets hot, so consider planting them next to peppers or something else that takes a while to get big and when you pull out the early things youÂll have more room for things that are just starting to get bigger.

I grow my cukes on homemade trellises, and you could easily grow yours or your runner beans up chicken wire tacked directly to the fence. I keep the lower leaves of the cukes cut off as they grow to provide more light to the other things nearby, and it doesnÂt hurt them at allÂsometimes I wonder if it doesnÂt actually help them. I keep about half the leaves cut off my tomatoes too. It opens up the plants to more light and the plants seem to put more energy into the fruit rather than the foliage. BUTÂyou have to put at least one tomato in there somewhere! You canÂt have a home veggie garden without a tomato! ThereÂs a law! IÂm sure thereÂs a law about that! ;-)

Do you know that chives are going to spread a lot too? And chives, parsley, oregano, and thyme are all hardy perennials and will be back next year. Oh, and dill wonÂt last once it gets hot and goes to seed either, so plan for that. And herbs can make up some really nice pots if you decide you want the space in the ground for other things. In BIG pots, I think most of the herbs would even make it over winter pretty easily. Consider some of the red basil. ItÂs very ornamental and also good for eating. Also starts very quickly and easily from seed, so youÂd still have plenty of time to start it yet.

One other thing I thought of! If you really want to try the pumpkins or melons, since it looks like the lot next to you will probably be vacant for at least the summer, plant either of those on the far right side of the garden and let the vines grow out onto the lot next door. They wouldnÂt be hurting anything.

Have fun,
Skybird

Bonnie . . . are you sure that we have can have 2 Bonnies with so many Steves in RMG??

My larger veggie garden is over 16,000 square feet . . . um, uh, yeah, I measure everything by the foot . . . my foot. (Did you know that a size 13 shoe is almost exactly 12 inches long? :o) Anything shorter than a foot is "eyeballed" but I think for you - a tape measure would be the way to go.

Sitting down at the kitchen table with a paper and pencil and creating a map would be of real help. And, I think your DH would appreciate seeing your interest in calculating and utilizing every inch of the space you both have worked so successfully on.

You should know that there was one time when I had a 3 foot wide vegetable garden between my concrete drive way and the neighbor's fence supplemented by another narrow strip between a concrete walkway to the back gate and a row of arborvitae. After a few years, I ripped up half the grass in the backyard and started dragging a hose across the alley to garden in a vacant lot.

DigitS'

I know some of you are going to be pretty tired of all of my pictures by the end of the summer, but I "had" to post a picture of DH's latest project for the vegetable garden. He made it from scrap cedar left over from the fence. He attached those metal stakes that are used to hold metal edging in place to the bottom, so that it will hold up to the wind.

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He teased me for posting this picture, but I told him it was a compliment that I am proud of his hard work!

Bonnie, the only veggie vine I can think of that would look good enough for your obelisk trellis is malabar spinach. Oh, wait a minute; you've got scarlet runner beans - better choice.

It will be very pretty and lucky you.

DigitS'
(As for me, all I've got is very little imagination, some disability, and, hopefully, neighbors who mind their own business. ;o)

"(As for me, all I've got is very little imagination, some disability, and, hopefully, neighbors who mind their own business. ;o)"

What more could a person ask for, really?

That is sooooo cool! Can you guys come to my house?

But seriously, I can't wait to see how it progresses. This is very inspiring.

AND it will be quite an enhancement to your home. For some reason vegetable gardens don't strike me as the most handsome things, but between the trellis and the edgeing, it will very attractive.

Today I planted out my winter sown seedlings - basil, cilantro, dill, marjoram, parsley, oregano, thyme, swiss chard, and a couple tiny pepper seedlings. There are still things that need to be direct sown - bush beans, runner beans, carrots, pumpkins (Jack B. Little), and cucumbers. I will have to resow chives and onion as well, since mine all died on me. Is there a trick to getting those started? I thought chives grew like weeds, but I WS some and sowed some indoors as well with not much luck either way.

Swiss Chard 'Bright Lights'
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Parsley krausa
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Basil and Cilantro
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Herb/Veggie patch
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I know they don't look like much yet, but the root systems were really awesome, so I am hoping they will do well.

Oh, and I planted a few nasturtiums at the front of the bed, and plan to direct sow some marigolds there too.

Believe in yourself, your neighbors, your work, your ultimate attainment of more complete happiness. It is only the farmer who faithfully plants seeds in the Spring, who reaps a harvest in Autumn. ~ B. C. Forbes

Since I already have another thread for flower pictures, I thought I would just add a few pics, to show how things are going in the veggie patch. There are some real success stories, and a few failures in this tiny bit of gardening real estate, but most of all it has been a great learning experience. I'm already thinking about what to try next year.

The right side, which seems to be growing better than the left

'Jack B. Little' pumpkins
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Bush beans

'Spacemaster' cucumbers (just starting to get going)


Carrots and onions


Swiss Chard 'Bright Lights' (I will have to get a picture from underneath the leaves so you can see how gorgeous the stems are, they look too pretty to eat)
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Some pitiful looking basil (and these are transplants, my WS ones are tiny and look even more pathetic than this)

... and last, the other thing that is not doing well in the veggie patch: peppers

The ones I grew from seed got eaten at the base of the stem right after I planted them out, so I bought some plants, and a couple look okay, and the picture above is of one of the two that are not looking well. They seem to be frying, which surprises my, I thought they liked the heat.

I had zero germination on my sunflower seeds, which I thought were supposed to be easy to grow, spotty germination on my marigolds, and bush beans. The nasturtiums germinated ... then fried. The lima beans should be up by now, so I may resow some of them. As far as the herbs go, the ones in my kitchen windowsill are doing FABULOUS, in the garden the oregano is starting to put on some growth, the parsley is still alive but not growing, there is only one dill sprout that survived, one marjoram sprout that survived, and a couple tiny thyme sprouts, and a few chives.

Last week I planted two more types of bush beans, and sowed some more carrots and cucumbers. I purchased one tomato plant (since Skybird told me EVERY vegetable garden HAD to have at least one, LOL!) which is in a pot on the porch and has teeny tiny baby tomatoes on it.

I just can't wait to actually eat something I grew. My sister is coming for a visit next week, and I am hoping I can cook for her using something out of the garden.

YouÂve got swiss chard to feed your sister! Steam it or stirfry it with some other thingsÂor make "something" florentine. (Northern Lights is another really, really pretty variety you might want to try sometime. IÂve got both of them this year, and the earwigs are getting them both!)

Pinch the top off of your basil so itÂll start to branch out more and get fullerÂand, of course, use the piece you pinch off!

With the heat youÂve been having out thereÂand weÂre having here in Denver again now too :-( ÂI think youÂre going to need to be watering your veggie garden pretty often. Some of the germination problems youÂve had could possibly be because the seed germinated and then dried out too much just at the wrong time. Be sure seeds and seedlings are staying moist at least until you see the first couple true leaves.

Parsley needs quite a bit of water, so try keeping it wetÂand try feeding it with a water soluble fertilizer. Feed your basil too. All the herbs can use a fair amount of fertilizer in summer.

Dill is a cool season crop, so itÂll probably go downhill from here on outÂbut youÂre not doing anything wrong. Start it really early next year.

By next year youÂll have more chives than you could possibly ever want!

Have never grown marjoram or thyme from seed, but try feeding them too. And probably more water because of your extreme heat.

Just wait till you taste your home grown tomato! YouÂre not gonna love it, youÂre gonna LOVE it! Next year youÂll have 2Âor 3, or 4, or 5Âof them. Try to keep the moisture pretty consistent for your tomato. ThatÂs pretty important with tomato plants.

When your pumpkins start to vine out, aim them at the vacant lot or theyÂre going to take over your entire veggie garden!

I donÂt grow peppers so I donÂt know much about them. Yours looks like it could be lack of waterÂor maybe something else. IÂm sure some pepper experts will be along here before too long.

Thanks for the update, and have fun when your sister comes,
Skybird

I wonder if something ate your sunflower seeds. Besides being easy to grow from planted seed, mine self seed all over and do well even in areas that get no supplimental water.
Give the basil more time - it really loves heat.
Unless it's lack of water, I don't really know what's wrong with your pepper. Although the brown edges on the leaves could be fertilizer burn due to fertilizing when the plant is dry. Just a guess though.

Skybird, I think you may be right about the soil drying out and affecting the germination process. It dries out soooo fast here that maintaining a consistent moisture level is almost impossible, plus I don't want to overwater the plants that are already up. So I have been hand watering the areas that have been seeded.

It's funny, I read a couple of posts where people were talking about having difficulty getting germination on carrots. That is the one thing that has been a sure thing for me. I just sowed some more last week, since the first batch did so well, and they are already up.

The swiss chard is growing like gangbusters, but the leaf miners have been working on it pretty good, and this morning I noticed a couple of half eaten leaves. This was too big a meal for even a really large grasshopper, so I am afraid the deer have found the free buffett! : o

There is some new growth on a couple of the basil plants that is much greener than the sick-looking yellow green leaves, so maybe it is recovering from whatever was bothering it. Cnetter, I haven't added any fertilizer, but it could be that the bagged composted manure I used to make the bed wasn't aged enough. I bought another very large bell pepper plant today in case the one in the picture doesn't make it. I'm determined to eat some produce out of the garden, even if I have to cheat a little and buy some transplants!

Oh, and Skybird, the trellis is for the pumpkins, plus I ran some string from the ground to the top of the fence for the ones in the back.

I doubt the bagged composted manure would do that. What I was thinking of is due to using chemical fertlizers. My peppers are planted in pure aged horse manure and look pretty good - they all have some peppers on them.

Hi High,

Ahhhh! Might I be correct in assuming you didnÂt grow up on a farm? Have you ever seen a pumpkin plant before? Check out the link below! I canÂt tell exactly how many plants you have there, but your pumpkin plants are going to EAT your little trellis!

Last year I had a (1) pumpkin plant come up in my compost pile, and I thot it would be kind of nice to have a couple of my own pumpkins for Halloween, so I left it grow. Six or seven weeks after I found it, it had completely covered the compost pile. I kept cutting leaves off so I could still throw stuff on the pileÂbut it kept growing more. It started getting mildew, and was really in the way, but I was still hoping for pumpkins, so I finally lifted all the vines and threw them over the top of my 6' fence. It kept growing and grew all the way down to the bottom on the other side of the fence. It eventually wound up completely covered with mildew, and, in spite of lots of flowers, I never got any pumpkins, so I finally chopped it downÂall 12-14' of itÂand threw it in the trash. I donÂt know why I didnÂt get any pumpkinsÂtoo much water maybe, who knowsÂso I assume youÂll get pumpkins, but just one plant would overwhelm your trellis pretty quickly. The leaves are huge. So you might want to reconsider what youÂre going to grow up your pretty little trellis.

With the heat, you might want to try mulching with some of your grass clippings when you plant any more seeds. ItÂll help keep the surface moist and soft. If you try it, youÂll probably need to use more than youÂd think. When they dehydrate in a couple days, they really "go away!" And I agree with Cnetter too. Especially with sunflower seeds, itÂs possible something ate themÂground squirrels, real squirrels, birds. ThereÂs lost of possibilities. Tho as closely as IÂm guessing youÂre watching your garden, I think you might have noticed if the surface of the soil was disturbed.

Did you pinch the tip off of your basil? YouÂll be a lot happier if you doÂand it will too.

Happy growing,
Skybird

Here is a link that might be useful:

Yeah, viney stuff like pumpkins, squash, gourds, etc. tend to grow like kudzu. While not pumkins, the squash and gourds in my garden last year had the same rampant growth habit. I wish I had a better picture:
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On the other hand, cukes don't travel nearly as far and would look real nice on the trellis.

Cucurbita pepo - most pumpkins, acorn squash, summer squash including zucchini, and some ornamental gourds.

This genetic relationship is why one should NOT keep volunteer squash seedlings in his or her garden or compost pile. Isolation for seed production purposes requires miles of distance between varieties.

digitS'

Okay, yes, you are correct ... I am not a farm girl. Silly me, I thought if the pumpkins were miniature, the vines would be more compact as well. I also did not expect 100% germination. There are nine of them!!! The ones at the back that don't get as much sun are growing much more slowly though. I could always cull a few of them if necessary.

The cucumbers I planted are the bush 'Spacemaster' type, so they won't grow up a trellis. Maybe I'll try the climbing type next year. Or a scarlet runner bean. The 'Hestia' dwarf scarlet runner beans I tried this year had okay germination, but some type of insect kept eating them right after they would sprout. Is it too late to plant some more?

The right half of the garden gets at least a couple hours more sunlight than the left side due to the fence, but the left side seems to dry out faster (?), so I will definitely be rearranging things next year.

Both basil and swiss chard like a fair amount of nitrogen in the summer to really get going. There is a way to clip Swiss chard that will about double your season production. Slice off, at the base, all but 3 leaves, but leave those 3. That leaf surface area keeps the plant growing like a bandit, and 7 - 10 days later, you can go back and harvest a whole bunch again. I'm planting chard where my garlic was. As soon as they're up, I'll put a big shovel of compost between each plant.

Garden update:

Yes the pumpkin vines are growing like kudzu, but look what I found this morning!

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I had to move the cucumbers, hope they recover, because the pumpkin vines were blocking all of their sun. Here is the first sign of a cucumber.

... and my first little tomato

David, I HAVE been cutting the swiss chard back alot, mostly due to the leaf miners. I tasted a leaf the other day, and thought it was bitter. I've heard that you can use the stalks like asparagus, but they look and taste a whole lot more like celery to me. How do you use this, and is there anything I can do about the bitterness?

Thinking ahead to next year, I have found that the left side of the veggie patch dries out faster and receives a couple hours less sunlight, though it still gets at least 6 hours of full sun. What things should I put on that side next time? I was thinking of moving the oregano and thyme over there, but what veggies would do well there?

Highalt, try this recipe. It made me a Swiss Chard lover! Great with beef.

6 cloves garlic, sliced
2 Tbsp extra virgin olive oil
16 c (packed) stemmmed and roughly chopped Swiss chard (about 5 large bunches)
1/2 tsp red-pepper flakes (I used regular pepper)
1/2 tsp kosher salt (I used sea salt)

Heat garlic and oil in large skillet over medium-low heat until garlic begins to turn golden, about 3 minutes. Transfer mixture to small bowl and set aside.

Add greens, red-pepper and salt to skillet. Using tongs, turn greens until wilted enought to fit in pan. Raise heat to medium, cover, and cook 7 to 10 minutes, tossing. Transfer greens to colander to drain. Return greens to pan and toss with reserver garlic and oil mixture. Refrigerate leftover greens in an airtight container for up to 3 days.

It said this makes 8 servings. For just two of us I cut it down considerably, but I don't remember how much. I don't know how I could have even fit 16 cups of greens in a skillet anyway!