Steve
I am sure that Rich will respond but my guess and it is just a guess is that they may be getting a bit too much moisture depending on how big the seedlings have gotten or they are victims of damp off. I have only started my azurea seeds but once they germinated I removed their plastic cover and moved them to brighter natural light. I sowed them 2 weeks ago and they have their first set of true leaves. They are still in the same container as I will wait until they have their second set of true leaves and are growing a bit more to transplant them to individual pots. The soil is kept barely moist. My black and blue rooted cuttings are in their own containers and I let the surface of the soil just start to dry before watering from the bottom.

Penny

Penny thanks for your input and Im sure you are correct. Im guessing your thoughts about damping off are most likely on the nail. After the two had sprouted I continued to leave the cover on for 3 or 4 days hoping I would get more and Im wondering if that act caused the damping off , which is a good guess. For I was just keeping them moist , certainly didnt think I was overdoing but maybe I was, at any rate I think I have lost my b & b seedlings. Getting ready to start my subrotundas for I have more difficulty getting those to germ.

Steve:

Oh, gosh, that is terrrible. Here is what I do with my seeds. My B&B seeds are on the heat mat and covered until they germinate. I gently move the ones that germinate (soil and all)so that they are not covered and I spray the soil with a dilute camomile tea solution and that seems to help prevent damping off. My lights are on from 6:00 a.m. until 11:00 p.m. but the seeds that haven't sprouted just get daylight. Only the ones that have sprouted are under the lights. I have several "mini greenhouses" that I got at Home Depot but the lid is only on the one with unsprouted seeds.

I have 8 or 9 plants from the first 20 seeds I planted and all have grown enough that I had to move them to larger pots. I started some more seeds on Saturday. I can send you some of my seeds if you would like, but just as you found with the ones you bought, the germination is erratic. I don't want you to be disappointed in my seeds, too!

I have never grown subrotunda. Do you have seeds from plants your grew last year, or did you buy some? I have been tempted to buy some on e-bay but I know that subrotunda isn't hardy in my zone. The pictures I have seen look beautiful.

Send me an e-mail with your address if you would like to try some of my seeds. My e-mail address is ramazz@cox.net.

Becky

Becky

I thought about doing what you said about removing the seedlings that sprouted , but I was afraid to disturb the new plants I guess. I was so surprised that this happened because I didnt have a problem when I started my scarlet sage. Anyway yes, I would love for you to send me some seeds . I will send you an email. When you remove the lid from your b & b do you just keep them moist ,do you spray them every day?
I havent grown any salvias myself yet . I got some subrotunda seed from a member on this forum. The two salvia s.sage that I have nursed along since nov. are still doing fine so far. They are in with the other plants under lights and when they start to get droopy ,I give them a shot of plant food.

Steve:

I got your e-mail and will get some seeds in the mail to you soon.

Becky

Becky

Thanks again ,well appreciated

Becky

Where do you buy chamomile tea and how do you mix it for use on plants and soil? Do you only use it when the seedlings have sprouted? Before I started my subro. I used the solution of bleach and water to see how much that will help on my new container flat.

I think you can also use diluted peroxide to prevent damping off. You might try doing a search on that. Damping off is very common and you almost HAVE to do SOMETHING to prevent it or it will happen again. I've lost seedlings that way too. It's sooo disappointing because they die so quickly. I have used camomile tea solution in the past and also set up a little fan to keep air circulating when I grew seedlings indoors. It's been several years ago since I used the camomile so I can't remember how much.
If you have enough seeds to experiment with, you might want to try winter sowing a few. That will help with the damping off problems. My first try winter sowing salvia failed so I'm going to try starting them later this time. Try try again.

Steve:

You can buy camomile/chamomile (I am not sure which is actually correct) tea bags at the grocery store. The tea is also supposed to help you relax (it sounds like you could use a cup of tea for that, too!) I usually spray a litle on the seeds before they sprout and then after they sprout, I use it until they have a set of true leaves. Don't go overboard with it - I use a mister and do it once a day at the most. My tea is pretty weak.

You can search camomile/chamomile here on gardenweb and you will see a better explanation. Several people have very detailed posts about using tea to prevent damping off - I think in the seed starting forum. As Christie said in her message, different people use different methods to prevent damping off. I happened to have camomile tea on hand so when I read about using it, I gave it a try.

I packed up some seeds for you, the B&Bs and a couple others that you may or may not already have. I hope these will grow for you. It is impossible to predict which seeds are viable - I thought all the ones I planted looked good, but less than half sprouted. Anyway, they will leave here this afternoon.

Becky

Christie-- thanks for your input yes, something needs to be done. I dont know if the bleaching thing I did is suppose to help or not and It is dissppointing after you put in so much time and then lose them overnight , which is the way it happens.

Becky, thanks again about the seeds. What do you think about green tea , I have some of it, will it do the same thing as the chamomile tea? I have read about the fan deal for air circulation and I dont have a small fan, I may need to get one. I have a larger one. I have a space heater going in that room thou and It moves some air.

Steve:

Search gardenweb for Byron's tea recipe and you will get a very detailed description. I don't know about the green tea. It might work but a box of tea bags doesn't cost much so when I ran out I just bought more chamomile, even though we have all kinds of tea already. You can make quite a bit with just one tea bag because you are making it very weak.

The seeds are in the mail!

Becky

Becky

Thanks again and thanks for sending me to the tea thread. Very interesting and Byron said whatever kind of tea you have so my green tea should work fine. Anyway I made up a batch to try on my planted seeds and also trying a new batch with his overnight plan and we shall see what happens and by the way I decided to have a cup of green tea myself by using the instructions at the site, not bad.

Hi,

somewhat OT but I am starting salvis from seed for the first time this year. I have azurea, van houttei and purple knockout. They are doing well. They are in 2 inch wide cells right now and there are 2 seedlings per cell. Can I leave them this way or will they cramp each other. Some smaller seeds like salpiglossis I grow more than 1 to a cell but since I've never grown salvia I don't know what to do. Thanks!!

Julie:

I am also starting salvia inside. My purple knockout have gotten large enough that 1 plant is taking up the entire cell. Some of my other salvias had to be moved to larger pots because they grew so much. Personally, I don't keep more than one in a cell simply to avoid their roots getting tangled up, but if you are going to plant them out as a clump, then that won't matter. I think you may notice a spurt in their growth and then you will know if they can continue in the cell or not!

Good luck!
Becky

I've been randomly following this thread. I think you are making this salvia seed germination more difficult than it needs to be.

I rarely , if ever, have a problem with dampening off.

For my seed germinations I use 4" pots.

I never use those individual cells, as they will dry out too fast.

I soak the soil, let it drain. I then surface sow the seeds. Then I mist the seeds well so they get good contact with the soil. I cover the tray with the plastic cover and place the whole thing infront of my south facing sliding kitchen door or I place the tray on my heating pad on the kitchen counter.

You can also surface sow the seeds then place the pot in water and allow the water to seep up until it breaks the soil surface. Remove the pot from the water and allow to drain then place it in the tray and cover.

Lately I have been surface sowing the seeds without soaking the soil. After sowing I mist the seeds well. I am having very good success with this method.

I only water (misting) the sowed seeds when I notice the surface getting dry. This usully occurs about 2 weeks after the initial sowing. Sometimes this second misting helps to germinate a few stubborn seeds.

Also once the seedlings are up and growing try removing the cover for a few hours to get some air around them.

When the plants have their first set of true leaves I pot them into individual pots. I dump the sowing pot out and break up the root mass. BEING CAREFUL not to bend or break any of the stems.

ALWAYS HANDLE SEEDLINGS FROM THE LEAVES NOT THE STEMS.

Salvias are tough plants! (THINK WEED)
After I pot each one up I feed them a water soluble fertilizer and away the GROW! I water them from the bottom.

That's it! I sow hundreds of seeds each year and I sow many different species. Yes, some are more difficult to germinate than others but if I get one plant I then take cuttings when it matures.

Salvia seeds can start germinating (when the root first breaks the seed shell) anywhere from 2 days to 30+ days.
The average time is 7 to 14 days.

SG

SG:

Thanks for the detailed instructions. Most of us amateurs probably do over-stress about these things. I have used everything from soil blocks up to a large container for sprouting seeds, but the critical factor for me is space. Plus I have cats and that limits where I can put my plants. So I start as small as possible. I actually like the mini-greenhouses and lost more seedlings with the soil blocks (which were recommended by a master gardener who is also a professional). I think the tea helps, but maybe the seedlings would have been fine without it. Growing from seed is a learning process, and most of us aren't as good at it as you are. I lose a lot of cuttings, too, even though I think I am following the proper procedure. Hopefully I will get the hang of that, too.

Becky

Im afraid I started my problem by over watering my seeds and therefore starting trying other things. So far in my experiments I have not found that the tea germenates any faster but it may help prevent damping off. I now have subrotunda popping thru after 6days we shall see how they do.

ramazz- havent received the seeds yet , maybe got lost in the mail.

Steve:

Give it another day or two. It was a bubble envelope and those are hard to lose. But it does happen. I seem to be on the mailman's hit list recently, as two incoming envelopes didn't arrive, and one person I traded with reported not getting his envelope, either. Then again, on the seed exchange forum, someone mentioned receiving an envelope postmarked in 2004, so there is still hope!

Becky

Becky --yes it appears we are on the mailmans hit list for as I check back it appears you mailed it on 2-20 and it is now 2-28 . Yeah he/she probably has it in the back pocket. IF I dont receive it till 2009 or so I may not be around. Dont you just love the mail service , a lot of times I get my neighbors mail on either side of me. They need to slow down just a bit and get things right, no wonder they talk about going postal. Do I sound a bit grumpy today? sorry

Steve:

I have found that bubble envelopes sometimes take 2 weeks to arrive - I do a bit of trading on the seed exchange. The other guy who thought his was lost got his on Monday, and I mailed his before I did yours. Keep the faith!

One of my second batch of B&B seeds has sprouted - that's one out of about 30. This was faster than the last batch, though, so hopefully more will pop up. My first set of plants is looking great.

You should check out the seed exchange if you haven't already - all sorts of good seeds available for trade or postage.

Becky

Becky, Ive been on the seed exchange and have gotten some that Im getting ready to start. The subrotunda ive gotten from penny for some reason are not doing well. I tried 3 different containers and also trying the chamomile tea and in the first pot out of about 12-15 seeds one now seems to be going there were some others showing green but never went beyond that. Im still waiting for the other pots to do something. The first one sprouted in 6days and the other two pots havent yet but Im expecting to see something in the next day or two. I have not found that the chamomile tea has any advance germinating benefits as some have claimed but it may have some damp off preventing qualities.

Does anyone know where I can even find B&B seeds? NO ONE offers them for sale. I'd really like to try this plant out as I'm a big lover of salvias. If you know where I can order some seeds, please let me know. Thanks!

Seeds of most tropical American sages of horticultural value are really hard to come by because so few areas have optimal pollination conditions. Exceptions are Salvia mexicana, S. miniata, and annuals like S. coccinea.

The calyx (chalice) that holds the seeds is very ineffective from the seed gatherer's point of view, since seeds are allowed to fall out soon after ripening. This makes seed collecting a rather labor intensive effort.

An even bigger problem is that bumblebees interfere with seed setting by the abnormal way they collect nectar, puncturing the flower at the base rather than going down the throat.

If the ripe seeds get damp, the glutinous seed coat swells and mold spores embed and attack the seed. Redrying the seed does not help. Lots of seed with these infected seeds tend to damp off.

Finally, varieties like Black & Blue guaranitica don't come true. This is especially true of greggii and microphylla forms.

Bindersbee-- Yes I know you are looking for the black and blue seeds , blue flowers dark calyxes but as rich says they wont come true from seed for they will cross with whats next to them. The only way is to order a plant from a grower like Richs "World of Salvias" unless you can find a plant locally or unless someone has cuttings for you to start from. Im going thru the same thing and will most likely order from Rich later on.

Well you are experienced at this , but I am but a beginner and this was my first flatt. Thanks for your insight. I have to tell you after losing some seed in a previous trial I become rather nervous, so after seeing one seedling wilt in the flatt, I moved all the seedling into their individual pots even thou they dont have true leaves yet, but the soil in these pots kept going dry on me so I bottom water untill they were good and moist , then I turned a fan on low for air circulation. Now maybe that was a risky move but they seem to be doing well. I still have seeds covered that are stubborn such as apricot sprite and Iopomopsis mix

Salvia Guy

I have to come back and thank you for your info of which I needed and used since it was my first flatt. Now I have had a trial pot which I lost some on experimental overwatering to damping off and I felt fortunate I did this and learned from and from your insightfull info. I especially liked your watering from the bottom after germination. I did some things different for I had moved a lot of seedlings to indiviual pots before they had true leaves but put those pots back inside the flatt tray for watering and in the process only lost 2 to transplanting so early and felt lucky about that. I also run a fan for circulation a few hrs and feel this also helps keep damp off away. At any rate now everything looks good. So thanks again for your help. Another question I might have would be what kind of soluable fert. do you use? Do you use any fish emulsion as a fert. on any plants?