Ray I used the spacing guides yesterday and found them very helpful. I just printed them and took them to the garden with me. I'll be reading more as i go along but I needed that to get me started.
Thanks

Ray,
For the FAQ page "Is Square Foot Gardening intended only for raised beds?", I think it would be good to add what you wrote earlier about sunken beds in one of your posts in RE: Tell me about your square foot garden!. Specifically:

"As a point of clarification, the *raised* part of building a bed is optional. Some desert locations use *sunken* beds to maximize water use. In essence, a bed is any defined space holding a planting mix that differs significantly from the structure of the surrounding soil."

I think that this addition is needed more now that Mel's newer book simplifies the method more than what was presented in his original book. When I lived in Tucson, AZ I had a very successful square foot garden in sunken beds without having outrageous water bills from 1984 until I moved away. It seems to me that now there is so much focus on the reduced work in ground preparation when building raised beds that people who live in hot, dry, windy, desert regions may miss the advantages of creating sunken beds. Even though it was a lot of work for me to dig each sunken bed, screen out the caliche, and then add compost, etc. to the remaining soil, it was work that was only needed once per bed. The advantage of having a sunken bed that kept water more easily combined with paths of undisturbed native soil was well worth it to me.

Have fun gardening,
Anna

That one FAQ entry happens to have been written by someone else who has not been an active member here for years and I can't edit it. I did go ahead and add an entry about sunken beds combining the quote you provided and a paraphrase of your own experience near the top of the section on how to build the sides of the beds.

Beth: I'm glad you found the planting guides useful. Fuzzy (who still swings through occasionally) did most of the graphics work for that; I just stitched them all together into one image to work with constraints of the FAQ system.

I think photos should be submitted so they can be added to the FAQ

The differences between the old book & the new book. :)

On photos - each FAQ entry is allowed one image, and there is some sort of file size limit that essentially restricts it to GIF images. Best bet on that it to pester the powers that be for an image gallery.

On the old book vs new book differences: I know the mix has changed, but not sure exactly how. I guess I need to admit I've never owned either book. I skimmed my moms copy once (old book) and read all of Mel's website. Do I have a volunteer (or volunteers) to put together an entry?

On sunken beds - Thanks Ray. The addition to "How do I build the sides of a raised bed?" looks great to me.

On differences between the old book and the new one - I think two other differences besides the mix that I remember when I borrowed the new book from the public library (I own a copy of the 1981 book):

The list of plants at the end is different.

How seeds are planted. The old book mentions making a hole twice the depth of the seed, filling it part way with vermiculite, adding the seed, and then filling the rest of the way with vermiculite. I seem to remember that he mentioned years ago on the PBS show that with his mix the vermiculite specifically for the seed planting holes was not necessary. However I still plant the seeds in vermiculite-filled holes since it clearly marks where the seeds are planted, it insulates the seeds some from the heat, and it increases the planting depth range.

My Suggestions ...

What can I build my grids out of? (an idea)
I used weed fabric on top of my bed and spray painted the grid lines with white paint, then used scissors to cut slits where each plant was planted (not the black plastic which is impermeable, but the fabric/cloth)

What is Square Foot Gardening? (adding part about trellis/3 feet)
1. Layout: Arrange your garden in squares, not rows (2 feet wide if you can only reach in from one side; up to four feet wide if you can reach in from both sides; 3 feet wide works better if your bed is 5 feet or longer and has a trellis along the long side i.e. 10x3 - also, leave room to walk behind the trellis side)

How do I trellis veggies? (an idea)
Other intensive-method gardeners have used other methods as well:
Nylon Trellis Netting - is soft like yarn, not hard like plastic or fishing line. It is made of high-quality nylon and will maintain 60% of its original strength after 20 years in the sun. This heavy-duty nylon netting has a 60 lb. breaking strength that will support extremely heavy crop loads.

What do I use to fill my garden beds? (a little additional info and slight re-wording)
"Mel's Mix" is the most common fill substance and consists of a mixture of approximately equal parts of compost materials, durable "brown" organics for bulk & drainage, and a water retention substance. Mel's Mix, now being recommended by Mel Bartholomew via his website, is equal parts by volume of compost, peat moss, and coarse vermiculite. Mel recommends using compost from 5 different sources to ensure getting a wide variety of nutrients for the plants. (I bought the wrong vermiculite originally, so adding 'coarse' to that sentence would have helped me. Also, starting the first sentence in bold Mel's Mix makes it more obvious that this paragraph is further described by the following 3 paragraphs)

Perlite (perlized mica) is a a mined product that is "popped" to make a water-retaining matrix. It retains the least water and has a tendancy to rise to the top of the bed. Expanded shale is also ...

How do I build the sides of a raised bed? (more ideas)
In untreated wood section: Check the damaged wood section at lumber yards for big discounts.
Fiber cement house siding boards (like Hardi-plank) or exterior fascia trim boards
Rubber lumber made from old tires - instructions at Noble.org http://www.noble.org/ag/horticulture/raisedbedgardening/RecycledTireBeds.html
Plastic Mesh - instructions at Noble.org http://www.noble.org/ag/horticulture/raisedbedgardening/mesh%5Fbeds.html

Corrugated tin - see Southern Living http://www.southernliving.com/home-garden/gardens/easy-affordable-raised-bed-00400000009521/ and also see Noble.org http://www.noble.org/ag/horticulture/raisedbedgardening/corrugated_beds.html)

What are recommended plant spacings? (add some and explain more on a few)
Beans: pole (Runner) - on trellis
Brussel Sprouts - 1/sqft ?
Cucumber - on trellis
Peas - some varieties on trellis, some varieties are bush
Squash - note: yellow summer squash and zucchini typically do NOT vine and should be staked (see related FAQ)

Asparagus ?
Strawberries ?

(about the summer squash thing - I have seen a lot of posts of people not realizing to stake these squash and try to grow on trellis - I made the same mistake myself and gave up valuable trellis real estate, lol)

Thanks for this thread. I just assumed the FAQ was general guidelines for posting in the forum, didn't know it had such great info.

I've gardened for a long time, but this will be my first SFG.

Angela: Thanks, that is probably the most new information contributed since we first put the FAQ entries together. I got most of that information in already.

The FAQ prevents including any URL within an entry, even leaving off the http:// it usually gets stripped out.

Summer squash spacing has been a regular debate here. Turns out the regional variations in growth make that crop a hard one to establish a good rule for. Here, I could never get away with staking summer squash, 3-4 vines planted in a hill will easily swallow a 5'x5' area, with the leaves getting over 2 feet off the ground. When much smaller, my kid proved that they can completely hide inside the mound...

For Asparagus and Strawberries I put in a mention that they have their own special planting methods.

That's ok about not including the URL's. At least anyone reading this thread can check them out. Is it possible to say something like ... see instructions at noble.org ? If not, that is fine, as people can google rubber lumber tires and noble is the first site that comes up. Also, if they google plastic mesh raised bed or corrugated tin raised bed, noble comes up as well.

FYI: The picture is not displaying now that you made the changes for "How do I trellis veggies?" and also for "What are recommended plant spacings?". Hopefully you know how to fix that. : )

Question for you (that I just noticed) ... what's the deal with cucumbers "2/sqft in a row of 4 sqft" ... that would be 8 cucumber plants, correct ? I don't know about most families, or most people's cucumber plants production, but we had only 1 cucumber vine last year and my hubby & I could not keep up with eating the cucumbers. I was constantly giving cukes away. Of course, if someone was making pickles as well, they would need more plants. Is there a reason that there needs to be 8 plants planted ? Like corn, I know there is a reason for planting for corn the specific way, is cucumber that way as well ?

I think the way you addressed the asparagus & strawberry was good.

To get a URL to show up in a FAQ I would have to space it out like "noble . org", which I've only felt like I needed to to when including a credit to Mel's site on an entry that was mostly his content that we had permission to use. If Noble comes up as the lead on a search of the keyword then that serves the intent. The purpose of preventing the URLs from being embedded was to prevent the FAQ from filling with dead links where the person who entered that entry was no longer around to update it.

Those images look like they are working for me, though it seemed like they took a little longer to load at first. It could be that updating the FAQ triggered some move on the server end to change how the picture was stored. These entries were last updated well before iVillage bought GW.

Many trellis directions for sprawling vines are given on the presumption that the trellis goes across the width of the bed, but you can plant only a portion if you can handle the vines getting intertwined. I usually plant only a half trellis of cukes and the other half of something else, but you do want at least two plants of the same species for better fruit set with cross-pollination, but only corn and grains actually need the mass plantings.

I wish there was another FAQ entry on GW we could point to for strawberry or asparagus instructions. Its a question we field often enough in our forum, but the permanent plantings in special beds don't fit in planting guide for annuals.

This is what I see when I open the trellis veggies FAQ. I viewed the source code and it shows the img src=2003115737000473.im.gif. I wonder if you should use the full URL as img src=http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/sqfoot/2003115737000473.im.gif for it to work ?

This is the full URL for the spacing FAQ http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/sqfoot/2003112433023631.im.gif

I understand now about the trellis directions for sprawling vines - it is assuming the bed is 4 x 4, so the trellis is 4 foot wide. I always thought it was because that many should be planted together for some reason, even though I have not done it that way. Those directions do not work for me as written because my bed is 2.5 foot x 18 foot and my trellis goes the full 18 foot. So I don't plant a row of 4sf of cucumbers or 4sf of muskmelon or 4sf of tomatoes (I do 1 cuke, 3 musk, 5 tomato, plus beans & peas, and melon). How could it be rephrased to make it more clear for people ? Or is it just me that is reading it that way ?

I have another question ... this will be my first year growing peas & beans on a trellis. My trellis sorta rides over the middle of a square over my garden (not attached to the back edge of the bed). When we plant 8 per square of beans & peas, does the SFG method call for one row of 8 (all on 1 side of the trellis) or two rows of 4 (row in front & row in back of trellis) ?

On strawberries & asparagus - I also searched for a FAQ on them thru gardenweb and did not find one. Maybe we should add a whole new entry to our FAQ's for them. I remember Snibb saying 4/sqft for strawberries one time. But he also grows corn 4/sqft. I have to admit that I do not own the book, so I cannot consult it to see what is the official word. Also, as I am just a 2nd year gardener AND I have never grown strawberries or asparagus before, I would not be the one to have any input on it.

On another note ... if anyone else out there is reading this, please feel free to jump in and give any suggestions you may have. : )

Looks like an Internet Explorer display issue, as it shows up in Firefox but not in IE. When putting the image in the FAQ, I don't control the URL, all I do is include a little tag to indicate where I want the image that I am uploading separately, and the back end takes care of naming the image and building the URL that us see for the image location. I'll see if I can get someone on the GW side to fix it.

I have my trellises starting a couple inches above ground to make it easier to rake or run soaker hoses through. I plant the vining things straight below it, though peas and beans are big enough for the kids to help plant, and their lines wander to either side.

I just never got the round-tuit to put together a FAQ entry on either of those, and for asparagus I don't have any practical experience to share either.