Jason,

Daconil is not the problem, and I do remember this from last year.

And it doesn't look like typical CMV to me either, and the chances of that happening two years in a row are remote.

Which leaves us with juglone toxicity, to which tomatoes are extremely sensitive.

How far from the walnut trees are the plants and are the tomatoes inground and what evidence do you have for roots in the area, and do you pick up all leaves in the Fall?

You might want to Google some info on juglone and tomatoes if you have the time.

Carolyn

Carolyn,

Thanks for replying. I Googled juglone and tomatoes and found quite a bit of material. The problem is, the main signs of juglone toxicity are wilting leaves and yellowing of the leaves. Neither of these symptoms are present. The closest tomato plants are probably 25 feet away from the tree. Leaf drop isn't on the garden, so I don't believe it's getting in that way. There *are* roots that I have dug into in the garden. These are either from the walnut tree or a nearby elm tree, and I think it's the elm.

Nevertheless, something is happening to some of the plants. I have been keeping a very close eye on things lately, so I'm going to figure out what it is this year. I contacted the local extension office and a guy said he would come out and look at my plants. We'll see what he says. I will say, though, the symptoms seem to be leveling off in some of the plants. That is, the curling and stunted nature isn't quite as pronounced now that the leaves are developing a bit more. Some part of me was thinking that maybe I jumped the gun, but in several of the plants (e.g. tigerella, purple russian, kosovo), there is clear evidence that something is working on them.

I sprayed with gardensafe soap spray and that killed the aphids, although some are back again. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason it is a remote possibility that CMV is happening again (assuming that's what it was last year) is because the aphids who may have been carriers last year died and the aphids this year are unlikely to have it again? I'm just wondering why it's unlikely it would happen in successive years.

Anyway, thanks for your help and I will continue to update this thread with information. It may be of some use to someone down the line.

Jason

p.s. Another odd symptom appears to be an excessive number of little tiny leaves all along the affected stems. They don't even appear to be true leaves, just sort of little growths of plant tissue. I don't know if this indicates anything in particular or not.

Jason,

I agree with you - it is not juglone toxicity. If it was, leaves would wilt and plants would die within a matter of days.

I am wondering about your straw mulch. Did the problems start after you mulched? Is the straw from a clean source? I'm thinking you may be getting some sort of herbicide residual and that is causing the stunting and curling.

Beyond that, the only other thing could be our very changeable weather. HOt in April, cold for two weeks in May and not hot again. Makes all plants do weird things.

Let me know about the mulch.
Good luck,

Gary

Gary...

Hmm. Very interesting thought. Let's go with your idea for a minute.

I bought the bales of straw from a local feed store. I put the plants in the ground and mulched the same day on many, some I waited a day or two on (it's hard to mulch 60 plants in the space of an hour). However, it did rain between the time I bought the bales and the time I mulched. I suppose *some* of the herbicide residue could have washed away, but not all of it. Furthermore, the residue could have been concentrated on the bottom part of the straw bales, due to the rain.

Now, as for the evidence of what you said, I did notice that the lower leaves on some of the plants were severely corrupted with brown necrosis, looking something like plants look when you've sprayed them with 2,4,D. These leaves were in contact with the straw. However, many of the plants had leaves in contact with the straw and no such symptoms were seen. I can only guess that the residue on the straw under those plants was minimal. As for the affected plants, wouldn't the plants have died, though?

Now, as for the weird stunted leaves of new growth, would residue that was from the straw be washed down into the soil by rains (and we had a LOT of rain), cause these observed symptoms? 2,4,D is a contact herbicide, so would it have an effect after being washed into the soil?

Another thing is that I didn't use straw last year and from that last picture above, you can see some odd malady that overtook many of my plants at the end of last season. So, if this is due to herbicide, it different than what happened last year.

Affected maters wouldn't necessarily die if exposed to very weak herbicide concentration. I would think you would see some dead leaves, curling or abnormal growth, and just plain oddness of growth.

Since you mention that you didn't mulch last year that may throw that theory totally out the window and then develop another one. Any neighbors, city or county crews spraying Round-up, Weed-B-Gon, etc. in the area. Round up mist can drift a long way - especially on the plains of Kansas. A light misting of something like that would cause similar problems.

Lots of variables involved but maybe a possibility.

Let me know what you think.

How far from KC are you?

Gary

Gary,

I did mulch last year, but not with straw. I used cedar mulch, and it worked ok, but it doesn't decompose very well, so I had to rake it out at the end of the year. I thought I would get smart and use straw. I think the best mulch is hay, though.

I suppose the city of Ottawa (40 miles southwest of KC, right down I-35) could have sprayed, but I doubt it. My neighbor hasn't sprayed, to my knowledge. I have blackberry and raspberry plants right on the border of our yards, and they aren't showing any signs, so I doubt he sprayed anything.

I walked through the garden yesterday evening and some plants look almost totally normal, but others like Prue, Purple Russian, Gregori's Altai, and Tigerella are showing signs of *something*. The new growth appears stunted and the leaves curl upwards. No yellowing, no wilting. That picture from last year, the last one above, shows the twisting and curling, but it doesn't show the severe flattening of some leaves. This hasn't happened yet on the plants this year. Many of the leaves would flatten out like a pancake, and would be very rigid and the "veins" of the leaves would be prominent. This symptom would appear on the same plants as those exhibiting the twisting and curling. Now, that could have been herbicide by the city, as it was in the middle of summer and they could have been out spraying weeds and stuff. Thing is, not all of the plants had it, nor did the leaves turn yellow and die, as you would expect with 2,4,D. So, it's very curious.

I suppose you could be right about the residue, and if that's the case, I think I probably should remove the straw mulch and go get some hay.

jason

Changing out the straw for hay probably won't help or may make things worse!

One thought, Prue when healthy and growing fine is one of the weirdest looking tomato plants that I have ever seen. It just looks sick even though I know it isn't. People see it in my garden and the first comment is "what is wrong with that plant??".

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Good luck,

Gary