Howdy, James.

I dunno. God uses both browns and greens, and He gets consistently good gardening results....

When I finally get my little bit of planting patch restarted, I'll probably review the major concepts in the wonderful Gardenweb Composting forum--well, maybe not the part about late-night cruising for leaf bags.... >.I do like to run a nice, hot pile that cooks the volunteer seeds and such down from nuisance to nutrients. (Hey, this is gardening, right? Not bend-and-stretch. If I want exercise, I pedel the recumbent bike and watch cheerful DVDs.)

Just out of curiosity why would you lime the new beds? Lime is for raising ph, do you need your ph to be raised?

The leaves will work fine, they simply take a while to break down all by themselves. Nevertheless you shouldn't have any problem growing directly into shredded leaves.

The majority of my leaves will be oak. I had heard that it was necessary to add lime if using oak leaves. Is that true?
James

No. Oak leaves are acidic themselves, but they don't generally leach the acidity into anything else. Once they break down into compost their ph is near 7 (neutral). I doubt you would even get the lime to adhere to the leaves successfully, most likely it would leech into the soil/composted leaves below and you would then be raising the ph above 7.0 which is out of optimum range for nearly all veggies and most flowers.

Lime is one of the most over recomended / over used products on the market in my opinion. Heck, it's use is encouraged in my state (by some 'official sources and discouraged by other 'official' sources) and outside of a few areas the ph ranges are 6.4 to 7.4. No reason to adjust ph upward, but every big box garden center has pallets of the stuff (yet sulphur (to lower ph)is more dificult to find) and some folks put it on their lawn and gardens every year.

I would let the oak leaves rot over winter and then test the results before adding lime. Depending on the species of oak pH can be variable.

I think if anything, I would add a little nitrogen (ammonium nitrate) if you want to heat the leaves up a bit so that they do actually compost. This would take the place of the nitrogen in the "green" that you're missing (in my opinion). We have so many oak leaves here that it's unbelievable! We get huge piles of leaves every year. One year I did try layering oak leaves, sprinkling on some ammonium nitrate, then another layer of leaves, etc and then soaked it good with the water hose and covered it with black plastic.

The pile heated up really well (even with the very cool winter weather) and most all of the leaves were composted by the next spring. It would have helped if I would have spent a little more time out there and actually turned the pile several times and have gotten some more air in there.

I've never seen a shallow pile of leaves break down in a few months without actively composting in a traditional manner.

You may get different results but I predict a heavy wet mat of leaves with no hope of planting in it.

We rake our leaves then put the weed eater (with the string taken off and a plastic blade attachment put on) thru them to shread into small pieces. We put a layer about 3 " over the entire raised bed. Mix it in the spring, with some compost.

I finished building my third raised bed. It is 20' x 4'. First, I removed the sod and shook all the dirt off the root mass. All loose dirt was removed and placed to the side. Next, I forked the subsoil to loosen it and placed a thick layer of newspaper over it. Finally, I shredded 20 bags of leaves into the bed and shoveled the dirt on top of the leaves. What else should I do to prepare this bed for Spring planting?
James

Be sure to keep us posted about the results of your experiment. I would like to use leaves next year -- if you can show that it works.

What I did: This spring I took large pieces of cardboard (disassembeled boxes) and layed them on the ground- directly on the grass. I then covered the cardboard with aprox 6 inches of leaves from last fall (not quite shredded, but mowed over once). Then I put every rotting veggie from the fridge in on top of that. I took a 5 gallon bucket or so of vermiculite and mixed in just a little. Then I added a bobcat load of top soil. Mixed up as much as I could with more vermiculite. Then we got a truck load of mushroom compost and a bale of peat moss and mixed some more. Added more vermiculite and mixed some more. I planted aprox 2 weeks later. My bed is 24 inches deep. I originally had the soil mix even with the top, but it has settled maybe 4-6 inches. I figure it will continue to settle over the course of the growing season- especially as those leaves all break down. I am going to add more "stuff" this fall when everything has expired and get it ready for next spring. I also plan on adding additional beds over the winter in hopes of having 3x the growing space- or better.

Other advice: In the soil and compost forum you will often see mentioning of a lasagana garden. If you are determined not to use mel's mix, I would suggest the lasagana method. Just go to the soil and compost forum and search for lasagna and you will find a WEALTH of information. The basic concept is simple: you layer leaves, and other organic matter over the bed and actually can immediately plant in it. Most (if using it immediately) will plant in a pocket- adding some soil (only in the pocket) to help get things started.

Hope that helps- happy gardening!

Hi SFG'ers....

I experimented with shredded leaves several years ago and the results were fantastic.
At the time, I lived in a new housing developement where 90% of my neighbors raked their leaves, shredded them up and placed them in huge paper bags.....ready to be picked up by the garbage trucks. Whenever I saw a bunch of bags by the curb, I would pick them up and take them home. At one time, I had thirty-four bags of shredded leaves in my back yard. In one 4'x8' SF bed, I dug the dirt out twelve inches deep and filled it full of the leaves and several buckets of sand I got for free along a creek bed. Mixed everything up with a potatoe fork and planted my potatoes.
The results were great! One of the best potato harvests I've ever had. The best thing too, was....I could dig the potatoes by hand and the potatoes had a near perfect shape.

Roln in Iowa

Here is an update on my experiment. In the 20 x 4 raised bed, I planted bush beans and canteloupes. The bean plants were not as big as in previous years, and the harvest has been fair. I did not fertilize this side of the bed. The other half of the bed I also added compost, and the canteloupes are doing wonderful. The other bed of 8 x 4 I planted squash, tomatoes and cukes. So far, the bed is producing an abundance of cukes, but the squash has been a little slow. The tomatoes have several fruits of various sizes. All in all, right now the beds are doing fine.
James

Could we have another update, James, and do you (or other forum users) draw any conclusions about your results? Seems like you have two variables going here: lst, using mostly leaves; and second, using compost here but not there.

And a specific question: I used square foot for the first time this year using Mel's mix -- and found out that I have to water frequently. Do you find that watering is an issue with primarily leaves? Thanks.

Here is another update. The 20x4 bed that was 90% leaves mixed with 5% clay soil and 5% compost produced as follows. The half of the bed that had the compost was planted with canteloupes. I harvested 14 canteloupes from 4 plants, the biggest being 13 pounds. The half of the bed that had a little dirt mixed in was not as productive as it should have been, but I did harvest enough beans for 3 good meals. I did build another bed that was 90% shredded leaves and 10% compost, planted with squash, tomatoes and cukes. I was very pleased with the harvest from this bed. In conclusion, I would definately recommend a soil mix consisting mostly of shredded leaves, but would add about 10% compost as well. This fall, I will continue to add nothing but shredded leaves to my veggie beds.
James

That is good news james.

I also have been using leaves. It is a lot of work but feel that it has improved my soil. I am sure there will be some who will say it is not scientific but hey, mother nature has been doing things that way for quite awhile now.

Thank you for your diligence.

Gumby_CT

Sounds like it worked. And could you just say if you had any problem with the soil drying out?? as I have had with "Mel's mix??

We have been in a severe drought since June. I have limited my watering to once a week. I also mulched by beds with pine straw to conserve water. I did not have any problems with the soil drying out.
James