Jeff, first of all WELCOME!

I put my boxes over lawn, but I killed it with Roundup before I constructed the garden as it had some Bermuda grass. I still used several thicknesses of newspaper in the bottoms, and I built my boxes double height, so I ended up with more than 6" of soil after settling. Alternatives to weed barrier cloth are newspaper or cardboard, which will eventually decompose and add to the soil.

Since you have already had a full year of planting, odds are any weeds or grass beneath those boxes has already been killed. Just my opinion, but I'd get the weed barrier out of there.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

I used a weed barrier this year on my first two boxes, but I think that I'll just use newspapers for the next few. I don't think my boxes are draining well.

Depth seems to be my major issue. I used 8 inch boards and I don't think they're deep enough. My next boards are going to be much deeper. Things just aren't growing with the speed or verility that my plants in pots (deeper root system) are able to. After eliminating a lot of factors, I think the delayed growth (about 3 weeks behind the others in growth)is directly attributed to the depth.

Again, it's just my opinion. I'm going to deepen those beds and hope for the best. I'll know more next year when I compare my results.

weed barrier. and as far as the depth, it will settle, just keep adding to it, mine has settled and i lost at least a good 2". i have to keep adding stuff. newspaper would be awesome!! if its thick enough. and a lady told me to do this 10 layers as in newspaper full thickness. and that'll make sure no weeds get thru except quack grass. living proof of that!! i have that stuff. and it went right on thru it. but nothing else did. it was great for everything else though!! LOL
WELCOME!! i always go backwards in thinking!! sorry about that!! LOL ~Medo

I use cardboard because we have a recurring ivy problem. My boards are all 10-12", so settling could occur. Mel suggests that he grows most things in a 3-4" of soil box. The more I explore, the more I believe that the amount of space the plant has impacts the size of the fruit. I'm going to do a bit of research on this.

Carolyn, I'll second that. Mine in the SFG are significantly smaller leaved, stalked etc.

First, I have never read MelÂs Book. I have learned a good overview though from various postÂs on this and other forums. If I understand correctly, I have several issues with his system. I do not want to open a can of worms by discussing them here but if you look at some of my postÂs you can see what I have done differently. I will answer any direct questions though as long as they are not confrontational.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

mtnrunner - Welcome to the sfg forum. I hope that you will hang around for a while.
I used professional grade landscaping fabric in my boxes. It was perfect for my situation, and has completely changed my gardening experience. I'm a huge believer in the fabric. Others have very good success with newspaper and/or cardboard. To each his/her own...

EG

John, I would hope nobody would confront you...this is the SFG forum for the discussion of square foot gardening as well as other methods of intensive gardening.

I'd say that's you and me ;-)

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Plus John, I think that Mel would agree that his method is just a means to an end. Ultimately, his goal seems to be to get folks thinking out of the box (heh, pardon the pun) in terms of gardening. I also think he's trying to put forward the idea that methods that work for mass production are not necessarily effective for home gardeners.
I think we're all fans here of getting ideas on the table. So, hopefully we wouldn't have any contention over oppositional ideas in this area, because what may work for some, won't work for others. The only way we can distill ideas and come up with new ideas is if we have open dialogue.
That's actually one of the reasons I love to come to this forum. When I say my local gardening store told me that you can't grow in straight compost, you come back and point out that you've been doing it for many years. We need to see the chasm between theory and practice in order to be very successful.

I am not implying that there is anything wrong with MelÂs system. What I am saying is, for my circumstances and options, there are some modifications to MelÂs system that works better for me. My #3 son who enjoys gardening is currently renting, and I recently suggested to him that he buys MelÂs book. I think in the beginning, Mels intended audience was people with very small yards or apartment dwellers, but the SFG style of gardening has grown in popularity to the point where many people that are using it, do not realize the options they have.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

I'm going to use either cardboard or newspaper. I have so many wonderful worms in my yard that I want to make sure they can get in and add some extra aeration. I just need to kill off whatever grass and weeds are currently there.

Thanks for the input everyone. This seems like a really great forum, lots of activity. My main reason for asking about weed barrier is I was concerned with the plants having enough soil to grow in. I think maybe I'll continue with a weed barrier but build my next boxes with boards that are 10" instead of 6".

In my opinion, the four underlayer options depend on your situation. I had monster weeds that I didn't want coming in, so I went fabric. I'd do it again. If you are unsure of your weed/root situation, cardboard may be for you. If you just want to take precautions, maybe newspaper is fine. If you don't care, do nothing. It all works fine, depending on your situation.

As for Mel's system. I bet his persomal garden has some full-sized tomatoes, he just doesn't take pictures for his book. Hehe. I doubt he'd mind me making minor changes, especially if I continue to say I SFG. Hehe. It's all good if it grows.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden adventure

mtnrunner, I doubled up my 2x6s for a 12" bed (not quite 12", but we'll call it that so I don't have to type fractions). With about 3" of settling, I still had nearly 9" of soil to grow in.

You can see in that photo how I stacked my boxes, as well as how much the soil settled in the box on the right. I was concerned I might lose some soil through the sides, where the boxes meet, but that wasn't a problem at all. If one was worried about that, you could tack some landscape fabric or plastic over the seam. I did that with a larger bed that had a bow in one of the boards.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Hi, I am new to this board and am planning my first box, probably 4 by 8 or even 5 by 10 foot sized. I will be setting it on top of my Bermuda lawn. I do not want to use Round-up. Knowing how invasive Bermuda grass is, I think that I have no choice but to use a thick layer of weed barrier fabric. Is that correct? I doubt that newspaper would control the grass from growing up into the box.
The SFG forum is the most active and informative of all the forums. Thanks, Paul

I can't say I've got experience with Bermuda grass, but if it's as invasive and hardy as you say, then maybe even commercial fabric won't keep it out.

I admit I used *gasp* Roundup to help fight the weed battle before I researched Monsanto, but you may need to use something on it first. Don't know. Maybe EG or someone closer to you has experience here. Best of luck and welcome!

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's blog

Paul - I took roundup to the area, then built the box in place about a week later - with professional landscaping fabric. I don't know what kind of grass/weeds I had there - but it was very invasive. The fabric changed my whole gardening experience...honestly. I hope you'll continue to visit this forum, it's the best one on here, in my opinion. You can get good information, as well as a good laugh from time to time. Welcome.

EG

Here is a link that might be useful: EG's Garden Blog

I hate to use chemicals in my garden and almost never do it, but I have learned that if burmuda grass is allowed to grow near your garden, it will be in your garden. You might stop it with concrete! LOL It comes up through 4 inches of gravel in my driveway, so nothing short of killing it is going to stop it. Good luck.

I'm sure a little research might reveal a non-chemical way of dealing with the grass (although, I, too, am not opposed to chemicals, I don't personally use them). You could perhaps use sturdy cardboard which would keep it from under-growing, but soonergrandmom is certainly right that most grasses have airborne seeds (see what reading far too much will do for you?), so eventually you're going to end up with it in your boxes.

well, what do you have that you don't want coming up?? if its regular grasses and regular weeds. heck i'd go with newspaper or the cheaper type of things, but if you have the crab/ or quack grass, OH MY i'd DEFINATELY go with something heavier. my one box out in the outter part of the garden, i used the plastic, it hasn't went thru that. i'm sure it will eventually. when that wears down. it was a stupid move on my part though. i am curious to see what you end up doing!! LOL ~Medo

Cause I have the rear tined tiller I end up using it below all the boxes so grass has not been a problem.

My biggest problem has been Bindweed.

Even though I have screened all the soil in the boxes I just cannot eradicate this stuff.

It is such an evil plant to have such a pretty flower.

I love it in the wild part of the property.

pvel, we had bermuda as well. I used landscaping fabric on the bottom of mine and none of the bermuda has come through.....yet.

I resorted to Roundup for my Bermuda grass problem, plus thick layers of newspaper in the bottom of the boxes for good measure.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

I have just completed my first year in present location of a square foot garden with great success. I purchased 4"x4" boxes and made a 20" x 4" section. I used fabric under the boxes but it was close to the edges so the grass came through at one end. My question is weed killing of that grass now. It is early November and I am preparing the beds for winter. Should I spray weed killer and is there something that I should do to the beds for the winter?

I have just completed my first year in present location of a square foot garden with great success. I purchased 4"x4" boxes and made a 20" x 4" section. I used fabric under the boxes but it was close to the edges so the grass came through at one end. My question is weed killing of that grass now. It is early November and I am preparing the beds for winter. Should I spray weed killer and is there something that I should do to the beds for the winter?

I built a new 4'x4'x6" box in late September. Despite a layer of carboard I am getting very strong Bermuda grass runners showing up daily. I did NOT spray the grass first since I expected the cardboard and 6 inches of compost mix to kill the grass. Lesson learned.

I am really tired of pulling grass.

The next bed will be 12" deep and at least 3 or 4 inches of mulch in an attempt to make it weed free. But then, how do I plant the small stuff like radishes at 12 per square? Do I just take all the mulch off that square until it grows enough to slowly cover?

My 1st season of SFG went way beyond my greatest expectation, my second year was poof..why ? local tree roots!!!
Weed barrier doesn't do it all, there are always the least thought of difficulties that pop up.
I built my SFG beds on top of my original 4 X 8 beds.
keeping the soil below, however adding the barrier.
Nothing will keep tree roots out.
I just completed elevating 4 beds with an air space of at least 8 inches below. Now I am not worrying about anything coming in from below.
Hopefully plant success like the first year will prvail.

Hi! I've been reading these forums for a while, just joined today. I have the same problem as japus, tree roots! When I first assembled my box I didn't even think about it, but within a year NOTHING would grow in it. I dug around and found tree roots everywhere. So I dug out the whole garden, put down a sheet of plastic (leftover drop cloth from a painting project) and filled the garden in over it. The plastic is bigger than the garden box is so it isn't trapping water inside. I'll be digging out the last of my fall stuff this week/weekend and I'll see if my method kept the roots out. I haven't had any problems with weeds in the box (even before the plastic).

I do SFG with my garlic- 2013 bed did so well I built two for fall 2014.

I smothered the area under a layer of thick black contractors plastic for a year before I did anything else. Then when I dropped in my 12 inch deep bed, I lined it well with a thick layer of newspaper, about 5-6 sheets thick. Then I put in a two inch layer of fallen autumn leaves. I watered heavily for a day to really tamp all that down. Then I started building my bed over that.
I did more of a lasagne layering thing rather than a mix thing to fill the beds. Now, this might not work for all kinds of SFG, but the garlic seems to love it.

I actually used some old black kow compost plastic bags cut open and spread out to act as my barrier last year. I plan on removing them this as anything that was down there should be dead by now. But I only grow in about 6-7 inches of soil and have no issues growing 8 foot tall tomato plants one per foot without any modifications to Mel's plans. I think the weed barrier really doesn't have any adverse affects.

PlanterJeff,

What kind of production do you get out of those tomatoes plants - maybe 8 - 10 pounds for each plant?