Great setup EG! Can't wait to see it in action!

now what ya oughta do is winter sow 5-6 tomato plants, then when its getting to the time, take them out, and look at the roots, then tell me about them roots on the ws ones and the ones on the epp ones. i'm curious to see how the roots would be looking!! **big grinn**

Sinfonian - Oh..you'll see it! Whether it does well or not..This is gonna be fun!

Medo - I'm germinating 6 sweet 100 toms, just for the heck of it. I'll take pics of the roots later, if ya want. Don't let me forget!

EG

here's a picture of one of the little broccoli seeds after 2 days. I'll plant them in soil tomorrow.

EG

Here is a link that might be useful:

Wow, who knew? I have soil-less germinated corn and beans, both big seeds, but never anything as small as a broccoli seed. Very cool looking. Get those puppies into some dirt quick, hehe.

Thanks, as always, for sharing.

Sinfonian - I got those little fellas in some dirt today, and will check their progress daily. They are already inside the propagation chamber, and all I have to do now - is plug the contraption in, once they peek out from the soil. In only 2 days, i'd say at least 80% had already germinated. I really like this little setup I use for the germination process.

EG

Plus (chimes in the cheapy), think of all the seeds you're going to save doing this.

carolyn - that is for sure! All of a sudden, i've got way more cole type seeds than I need. Yikes!

EG

Well, I lowered the lights directly above the seedlings in my homemade propagation chamber this evening, and the timer is set to start the lights at 7 am in the morning. The cole stuff is the only varieties in there right now, and i'll let them go for 12 hours each day. It's alive!!! I'll post about it tomorrow, and provide some pics...

EG

ok, now that is definately something to be proud of!! LOL
how does it feel to be a brand new daddy again?? LOL
man, now i have to get my rear end in gear and get some of my stuff done!! LOL cant let my friend have all the fun!! LOL
and of course you do know, i want to see the roots!! are you gonna try and winter sow 1 or 2?? **big smile** a challenge **onery grinn** ~Medo

Well, I may have cooked my little seedlings in this thing, and won't know for sure until this evening. I think 92 degrees was a bit too much for the tiny little cole crop seedlings...just to be safe, I'm planning on starting another round of seeds tonight. Oh well....nobody's perfect. I'll get everything figured out....Yay!

EG

Trial and error is the way to success!

EG, bottom heat is more important than the air temps. Try to keep the soil temps between 70 Â 75 deg f and the air temps between 55 -65 deg f.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

peel, been there, did that.;o)

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

i did notice you did not rise to the challenge!! **onery grinn** ~Medo

The first 10 or 15 seedlings to show are toast, but new ones have emerged - and they're fine. I'll see how it looks over the next week...

EG

I've been thinking that when I finish my concrete construction I should build a mist chamber to propagate hard to root cuttings. I haven't worked out the details but the general idea looks like this ...

pls - interesting...I'm with ya.....is the opto coupler an opto 22 I/O module? What kind of cost are you anticipating, for the materials for the circuitry? I see what appears to be a couple of 555 timers, and of course several other small semiconductors, including the triac for firing the solenoid valve coil. If you want to elaborate on your design in detail, please feel free to do so. I should understand every word of it.

EG

I haven't completed a design yet. I'm thinking most all the electronics would be IC chips, 4000 series for the logic. Power supply could be any old wall wart, I have several. Maybe around $15 for the electronics, plus something for the boards. Radio Shack used to have a cheap edge card IC prototype board I liked.

The 555 timers would be set for a slow oscillation with the the counters extending the time for the long delays needed. Timing control would be by selection of various taps on the counters. I didn't show the reset returns from the logic stage.

The light sensor would give the option to stop night time operation by feeding an input to the logic stage which would probably be composed of mostly nor gates.

The interface to line voltage would be a made up circuit driven by a JK flipflop and look something like this ...

Keep in mind, I am an ol' redneck with no training in electronics. So while you might understand everything I say, I probably won't understand anything you say.

pls, I assume that you must be about the same age as EG, and have about the same energy. I was employed in the Electro/Mechanical field at ALCOA for 37 years with the last 15 years in administration. That background leads me to ask, why build the controller when you can probably buy one cheaper.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

Wow! I am impressed.

I can plug a cord into a wall outlet!!

LOL

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Hi John, my dad worked for ALCOA for 43 years, and I may be older than you think. I would just as soon buy as build. Do you know of a timer that has a repeat function with intervals variable from 30 min. to 4 hrs, and a duration control from 2 to 30 seconds, all for around $25?

You had me at mist chamber for cuttings, then you lost me for the next several posts, hehe.

I use a RainBird that I picked up at an ACE bargin table for $10. It is 27 deg f outside and i do not want to open the GH to get the model #. I think Gilmore may have one also.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

pls - yeah, that's about the cheapest way of doing it that I can think of. Even a small PLC from automationdirect would cost $99 , but it does have 256 timers and counters built into it's memory. Also, the PLC does have variable memory locations that are associated with the internal clock in the cpu, and can be easily manipulated for monthly, daily, hourly, etc...control of things.
Anyway,from one redneck to another.... i'm impressed!

John - it's true, that alot of the time, one can buy a controller that is cheaper than building one yourself...but, that's only if one is on the market that will fit the person's needs. I've ran into that scenario lots of times, and it's kept me from constructing some of my crazy projects! :)

EG

I checked out the rainbird timers. The problem with most lawn watering equipment controls is that you need to start cuttings with 20 to 30 mistings a day that last only a few seconds each. For the units I saw, the minimum duration was 1 minute; too long for a mister. Even the more expensive timers are not going to be a good match for misting.

I did find a web page with some good info. It gave me a new idea of maybe using a wet sensor as a negative feedback device to control the interval and duration times. This could cut the electronics needed to the simple interface of low to high voltage to run the valve. The downside of this would be that after the cuttings started to root there would not be a way to increase the dry period to harden them off

Here is a link that might be useful: Mist Propagation Systems, OSU ...pdf file

I had seen in a post, I do not remember where though, how somebody used to cheap timers in series. The first timer turned the water on and the second did not turn on until the first timer was about to shut off.
Depending on how many cuttings you plan to root, maybe a humidity chamber would be better. When I was rooting cuttings using the chambers, I only had to water the soil every 3 weeks. Also with the leaves staying dry, there were no fungus problems.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

You guys are driving me nuts here ( i know itÂs a short trip). I have been retired too long, if I could remember some of the brands and models. You could pick up one of the older lap tops for almost nothing and something like this. http://cgi.ebay.com/ALLEN-BRADLEY-SLC-500-PERSONAL-COMPUTER-INTERFACE-CONV_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ97184QQihZ022QQitemZ350085150819QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1VQQsalenotsupported

I had a computer interface that was semi breadbox design that would have been great for something like this.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

John, that sure takes me back many a year. Before the IBM PC hit the market, I wrote some code simply because there was no software to buy. I would have loved to have had an interface that I could have used for control of custom external devices. I doubt my brain is still up to that kind of strain. Just thinking about what I did gives me a headache.

pls, tell me about it. My first pc was a Vic20 and then I graduated to a Commador 64. I worked on my first computer in 1958 it was a CDS 1500 and occupied an entire room. Ooooh the head aches are coming back.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

John - You said the "evil word"....allen bradley...boo!......boo!..... Whew..I feel better.

pls - sounds like a small plc would be more adaptable for your needs. That way, you hardwire everything only once, but can alter the program anytime to meet your requirements. Besides, that's why it was invented, and first used in the automobile manufacturing industry. Instead of having to shut an entire factory down for weeks to re-wire all of the control systems to make a new style of automobile, they simply altered the programming in the cpu to address the inputs and outputs differently. You could use this to turn something on for a few milliseconds, if needed. The possibilities with one is limitless, with the right programming knowledge. Let me know if I can help you with this, because I love programming!

EG

The first computer I was exposed to was a HP desktop calculator with mini audio tape for storage in the mid '70s. I think the company gave about $25k for it with software. I told my wife we had to learn computers as they would change life completely. I started looking at altair, wang, and some others. None seemed to offer the simple programing of the HP. Then I ran onto a little known machine; the Canon BX1. It had a custom basic language that was so simple it was almost foolproof, and features MS dos would not have for another 10 years. With all static ram, and one of the first to have a floppy disk, it was one fast number cruncher for its time. I gave $6k for it at a time when my annual pay was $15k. One of the smartest moves I ever made.

EG, I have some ideas for stage lighting I might want to implement someday. Sounds like one of those plc thingys would be just the ticket.

Oh yeah, it'll work like a charm. If you'll remember a couple of years ago, there was a guy that controlled numerous christmas lights on the exterior of his house, and had them come on, and go off - in sync with the music that was playing....I'm sure he used a plc for this, as it would be quite easy to do....

The small unit that I use sometimes has 8 inputs, and 6 outputs - with an expansion slot that will accept all kinds of specialty modules, including analog I/O, type j,k thermocouples for temperature measurement, etc.
Of course, they make several models that can accept 100's of I/O if needed, as well. I'll be glad to assist you, if needed.

EG

DonÂt forget I have been retired for almost 16 years. And a Lot of this stuff I have never seen.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

John - there are lots of manufacturers that make this type of equipment these days, but I promise...there's none more expensive than AB. Oh...not just a little bit, either...alot!

EG

Wow, words I recognize. My first computer was a C64, though I remember programming on a Vic20 with no storage device, so you created all day, played the game all night, turned it off when you went to bed and it was gone. Hehe.

Then in school, I programed for a class on a Pet. I made a Karataka like game. Pretty good graphics for aski.

Ah, those were the days!

Sorry, all these posts I just had to comment. Back to your foreign language...

"Oscillator"? Oww! Sciencey words, make it stop!
My hubby still has his old comodore Sinf. He's hoping to show the kids "pong".
John, I used to go to the office with my mom and she'd pay me to sweep up the punch card dots on the ground. She retired as one of the highest paid cobol programmers a few years ago, lol. I told her that her office looked like Jurassic Park, rofl.

sinfonian - it's no more a foreign language than some of the terms used in your line of work. I'm sure there are terms that you use every day, that i'd be like..."wha"?

John - if you and pls lived next to me, i'm sure we'd get into all kinds of mischief... :)

EG (still a redneck)

Oooh cripe donÂt get me started EG, I couldnÂt imagine. I have four computers now, networked with WIFI. DonÂt ask me why, data storage I think. BTW, there two nice properties for sale right beside me (I wonder why). Since I retired, I have built about a dozen PCs from scratch, form the MB up. Right now, it does not pay to build your own unless you want the fastest state of the art system. I think our first problem would be driving our spouseÂs nuts.

John

John - too late...I already drive my wife batty, with all of the weirdness! LOL.

Anyway, back to germination/propagation happenings....
I've got this thing figured out, I think! I'll blog about it in a day or two..

EG

Well, John...you have me beat. I only have three computers networked with WIFI (when I'm home in WA, only one laptop down here). I mean, I need one laptop for the kitchen, one to roam around with and a desktop model where I keep a copy of everything that's on the other two. I started with an IBM computer with 2MB of RAM! I think the next one was 16MB. I remember paying $1200 for each of those, and that price pretty much held true for each of the next 3 or four that I bought. The last three were bigger, better, faster and cheaper! Or, maybe I should say two of them are bigger, better and faster...we won't talk about the desktop. Let it suffice to say I'd never buy another DELL!!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

geeze,, you'll have me beat big time, hubs has his sony, i think he paid 13oo for it, tabor has his apple k12 let him borrow, and i have my no good hp that i messed up. i guess zack said it won't reboot because of the hardware problem, hubs and i are thinking its the hardrive, and i remember that ever since i let talla watch that dang high school musical over the summer once in it, the hard drive would just keep going and going, some how she didn't shut it down right when she left, and it was going when i came in, and it was hotter than heck. and here i thought it was because of avast and it eating my files. if that turnes out to be the problem hubs has a hp that is a different make, but the hard drive is still awesome but the problem with his was that the lcd screen just quite working, so we decided that when i buy my next one, it has to be something pretty indestructible, as i have this shocking ability and this if it can be ruined, medo can do it!! LOL my mom let me have a pc of hers ( laptop) and she told me, you can't ruin it, well somehow, i did ruin it, i was diong something, and all of a sudden tha dang thing went black and NEVER ran again!! i totally fried it, so hubs took it in, and the guy told hubs that all that pc is good for now is a paper weight, LOL think that's the end of my accidental destruction? ya, HEEE HEEEE LOL
we got this nice tv, i was washing the screen, and danged if some spray didn't get into the speaker part, guess what? it never worked again. hubs was very mad!! then it was this really cool stereo my mom gave me, could go really louod!!! OHHHH MAN!! so i'd clean the house and turn it up!! well i was moving the living room around, and plugged some stuff in, and pfizzzz i blew a circuit, the guy said, gues what? its no good, this is too old of a model. dang!!!
nope, it do't end there!!! i fried another tv, don't really recal how on that one, just really remember hubs saying what the h*** did ya do now?? so when i move stuff around he freaks!! now the breaking has passed onto my daughter, and hubs ruining things has passed onto tabor, LOL talla busts all my cups and dishes, except when i somehow, i think i twitched and droped the top of the broiler pan and 3 plates on the top of my feet, OUCH!!! i actually thought i broke my feet, but i didn't, they just bruised, that was the only time i broke anything in years. LOL and i haven't ruined anything since, excluding that dang hp!! Man!! yes, i'm long winded tonight, its been 2 hyper yelling kids all day!! **sigh**
~Medo

I just wanted to update this thread with the current condition of the second batch of seedlings.

The propagation chamber is working much better in the out building. Although a few of the seedlings are leggy, it's working very well. The temperature difference inside the chamber versus outside ambient temperature is perfect. I fully expect to raise these seedlings to be quite healthy.

EG

And EG's family is going to be SO sick of broccoli that he'll not be able to give it away. Naw he'll freeze it, we've already had that discussion.

Way to go EG, they look awesome!

Thanks, sinfonian. I hope to have enough to freeze this time. BTW, keep a watch on my blog for the next few days.....there's lots of composting and propagation stuff going on here right now!

EG

yep, we've been watching, i keep looking at all the blogs thru my website now!! LOL **big smile** ~Medo

frozen broccoli
fried broccoli
steamed broccoli
creamed broccoli
broccoli to the neighbor
broccoli to the passerby's
broccoli to the kid down the street
broccoli to the people on the corner!! yep, he'll have it coming outta his ears!! ** onery smile**

I'll take some! Remember, between the man, the boy and the girl I only got one bite for myself out of six heads of broccoli this year.

:)

the mower ate mine, then what was left the freezing i thought got, but do you know, that stuff will last thru the frost and freeze! i was really surprised! heck. the boy and the girl and the man. hmmmmmmm......**giggle** ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**