They got my Night blooming cereus last year too. I had holes sucked out of bunch of my leaves. They only thing left was a see through webbing of plant fibers where they ate on it. It was right next to the canna but they were in a tall pot and not as easy to get to I guess. If you go out with a flashlight at night you can find them easier. I go hunt them down and stomp them. My neighbors think I'm nuts, lol.

Do you remember if the center leaf was rolled up tight? If it was it is some type of butterfly. I don't recall the name. This year I'm going to use bayers 3 in one fertilizer. I've been told it works.

"The leach or something" is a leaf rolling caterpillar of the skipper butterfly. Unfortunately, the butterfly is a plain brown little guy whose method of flight is a sort of skipping along the tops of the plants.

You hardly ever see the caterpillars as they roll up a leaf and hide during the daytime, but at night they make tatters out of the cannas. They can be controlled using a product containing Bacillus thuringiensis, commonly called Bt. It comes as a powder or a spray. It contains a bacteria that affects only caterpillars and when they eat a leaf with Bt on it they stop eating and die in a day or so.

I keep a patch of cannas in an out of the way spot and when I see the a little section of leaf turned over I open it, take out the caterpillar and carry it to the cannas grown for the purpose of feeding the cats. I have a sort of soft spot in my heart for the caterpillars as I used to play with them as a little kid, and after all they do make a butterfly. Sometimes it is the only butterfly I see.

I'll watch your butterflies this year, Roselee, as I am ready for my cannas to be healthy again.

Just put out a small bowl of beer in the evening, they love it. You have to replace the beer each evening, because of all the downed snails. My snails, loved coors light. Its kinda like hunting, its fun to see how many you get in the morning. Barbra,

Hahahaha! Okay Carrie :-) I get that feeling too sometimes ... sigh.

Here's a picture of the chrysalis of the skipper butterly in a canna pretoria leaf. He was all tucked in for transformation sleep, but I unrolled the leaf to expose him. You can see the threads of silk that held the canna leaf to cover him. Sorry for the large pictures. Photobucket was slow tonight and didn't generate the thumbnails.

Here is the skipper butterfly on an abelia flower. Some skippers are more colorful and some have long tails, but alas, the ones that eat the cannas are pretty plain. Some cannas are more resistant than others.
{{gwi:446049}}

Happy gardening, with caterpillars or without!

Barb, the Bayer's Three in One product that you mix into the soil contains a systemic insecticide meaning it goes through all the plant.

I used a systemic insecticide product with fertilizer that GreenLight used to make years ago, but then I wondered if it poisons the nectar of the plants that the hummers and butterflies sip, or if it kills the earthworms.

Does anybody know?

Good question Roselee.

I used it on my daylilies last year to rid them of aphids. This winter has been awful, I spray but they come back quick. I have lady bugs but not enough to keep up and not as many as I had two years ago.

I have cannas and like everyone else would like for them to look good this year.

I don't know either, Roselee, but I would venture a guess that the insecticide would kill both good and bad. This is why I don't use it often, but sometimes, I just want to have a good year. I haven't decided what I am going to do this year, but as little insecticide as possible. I had good luck with Murphy's oil soap last year on some bad bugs, may try it on the cannas to see if it will deter the butterflies from laying their eggs.

Speaking of systemic insecticides and daylilies -- I used the Greenlight product one year because they were dripping with aphids. It worked. Several weeks later I had been reading about how daylily buds are used in salads and stir fries so I thought "Wonder what they taste like?" picked one and popped it in my mouth. Yuk! :-( It tasted awful! Then I remembered the systemic I had used on them. OMG, I thought! I'm poisoned!!! Should I stick my finger down my throat and try to throw up? I don't throw up easily and it didn't work.

Well, I lived, (with a yukky bad taste in my mouth the rest of the day) but that experience made me start re-thinking the use systemics. Funny thing is since I stopped using insecticides at all I don't get infestations of bad bugs and the good and bad bugs balance each other out. I had always heard that would be the case, but didn't really believe it.

So far so good.

I use Bayer 'All in One' on my canas, and never have leaf rollers. Of course, if I was going to eat them, I might reconsider.
Jim

Well, Jim, guess we could always try canna leaves in a roll-up like cabbage --- what do you think???? LOL

Or pick one already rolled for you and get some extra protein. (I know ... a groaner, but I just couldn't help myself :-)

I used the Bayer Product as well and it seemed to help, with all of the rain we received last year may have contributed to the problems, It is very dry right now, I guess we wait and see what the Spring hold for us this year, anyone seen the Farmers almanac for the South Texas Area?

Hi - It seems last year, I saw the Farmers Almanac at Harbor Freight and Lowe's. You could, check those places for it.
Goodluck - tina_2

Hi - Oh, boy last summer I fought those buggers - tooth and nail!!! They were just fierce, on my cannas! I sprayed every type of control- I could find on them. I finally got control of the situation. They usually aren't that bad. I really fear the grasshoppers. A few yrs. back - they gave me a real fight. They were eating lots of plants.Grasshoppers, can be a gardeners nightmare! Goodluck! tina_2

You're baaaad, Roselee ----LOL>

I know Carrie... oh well :-)

But I would still like to know if systemic insecticides poison the nector and pollen that the bees, hummingbirds, and butterflies feed on. Maybe I will ask on the bee, hummingbird and butterfly forums. They should know if anybody does.

Thanks for all the info folks. I'm going to print it up and keep it handy.

This summer the canna shall thrive in all their glory.

One thing I know that will repel all eaters of flora is a good coating of kaolin clay. You mix it with water and sprya it (several times) on the places you want to protect. It does create a white film, so would be unsightly for ornamentals, but I bet you could put it on the base of cannas and have good luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: buy kaolin clay

Roselee,
I would appreciate you sharing what you find out about the systemic. I just moved all my cannas to one bed and was thinking of using that Ortho systemic that I've had in the gardening table for 3 years. It would be nice to enjoy the cannas for 1 season without the holes.

Pam

Okay Pam and everyone I will. I posed the question to several forums.

I did a quick search on systemic insecticides and came up with these comments:

~ ~ ~

"It's been known for a long time that systemics contaminate nectar and pollen."

~ ~ ~

"From the research I've done on systemic insecticide, the indications are it is deadly to bees and other insects that contact it. They don't just fall out of the sky. They exhibit behavioral changes, disorientation, feeding problems, communication disturbances leading to death."

~ ~ ~

It stands to reason this is so, but I'd like to see some actual research. Google kept refering a 269 page document on plant nectar that could be downloaded, but I didn't feel like reading through that many pages.

But if anyone is considering NOT using systemics for the above reasons they CAN control the Skipper butterfly leaf rolling caterpillars by using a product containing Bacillus thuringiensis. There are many brands in the form of concentrated liquids and powders. Just look for BT on the label. It is easy, inexpensive and safe.

BT kills nothing but the caterpillars who eat the leaf it is placed on. Just a little goes a long way and it lasts a long time on the shelf too.

Happy gardening for all!

I have BT too so I'll go with that. Thanks Roselee.

Pam

Here are several responses to the query about whether systemic insecticides poisoned the nectar and pollen of the plants treated with it:

~ ~ ~

Since the insecticide would be translocated to all parts of the plant logic says that it would also be in the pollen and nectar. I am aware of one study, done in Europe, that did look at what affect systemic insecticides would have on bees and traces of the insecticide used were found in the honey in the hives.

~ ~ ~

What a good question! Yes, there have been studies. Systemics can be translocated to nectar and pollen. As a matter of fact, just about all parts of plants can be contaminated. They've shown, even, that plants treated with systemics can harm leaf cutter bees as they gather their little cuttings for nests.

The two commonly used pesticides that I've read about are imidicloprid (which Bayer seems to be putting in everything these days) and acephate (which is in Orthene).

~ ~ ~

Systemic insecticides and fungicides are meant to pass throughout the plants vascular system to all parts of plants. Insects, mites and larvae consuming sap or tissue are supposed to die from ingesting pesticide. The effect is concentrated in older tissue.

Roselee thank you!

I will try BT this year. I have a lot of bees in my yard and would really like to live in peace with them. I have Mexican heather all around my pool that's teaming with bees.

My wife and I are a bit leary about all the bees, but so far we all manage to get along. When I water my plants,,, out come the bees. I never been bitten and try to disturb them as little as possible.

I shudder to think what might happen if I half poison them with some chemical and they start acting abnormally....

I just happen to be in Honolulu and went out for a nice breakfast and spent the rest of the morning walking around looking for some seeds to bring home. I ran into a very nice patch of canna and came away with a good ammount of seeds. So I'll have even more canna this summer.

Thanks again on the great advice.

Mike

How exciting to go seed collecting in Hawaii! My pockets would be full.

BTW, I brush up against bees all the time and have never been stung. They sting to protect the hive, but while out collecting nector and pollen they are oblivious to anything but their task at hand. If they seem to be 'dive bombing' you it's more likely they are just trying to avoid you when you've gotten between them and their target flower.

Keep us posted on the new cannas.

Hello nightrider. You answered my post about killing bananas and mentioned that you were interested in a plant if I was near San Antonio. Unfortunately, the way you have set up your member page on GardenWeb does not allow your email to show when you reply to someone's post, so I could not answer the email you sent me. So, I looked for you on GardenWeb and found this post that you started. Hope you don't mind me changing the subject. I am near San Antonio, and if I am able to dig up any of these adult banana plants, I would be happy for you to have one or more. If you would email me directly we can arrange something at some point. Would you consider attending the plant swap in San Antonio in April ? Maybe I can bring them then.

thank you for the input about the bananas !

patty