About Rose Rosette Disease and multifloral rose, studies of the effect on multifloral rose shows that while it does indeed kill the plants infected, seedlings already existing from advance reproduction under the canopy of the killed plant will rush to take its place, and they need only live long enough to set seed again for the process to continue, and thus a thicket can presist that way with only a bit of thinning done to it.

chinacat_sunflower, actually goat meat is one of the most consumed meats in the world. I eat it about everyday of the year. But lets leave the goat talk off this discussion. The only reason I mentioned it was because of judith. Also, with my first post of this, I was researching how kudzu grows in zone 5. I didn't say what my intentions were.
Molineux, I don't know why I should be intentionally chewed out about RRD and the conclusions you have made about what I have said.

You SHOULD be chewed a new one because you imply that it's 'okay' to plant nasty, well-known-to-be-invasive garden thugs JUST BECAUSE you happen to own 180 acres and 'think' you're immortal and your land will never suffer after you're gone, nor will your present neighbors suffer because of your irresponsible land management.

If you aren't intelligent/well-educated enough to understand WHY folks on this thread are dissing your ideas, then--I truly feel sorry for you. Go research 'invasive plants', then come back here when you DO understand what we're all talking about.

Eat some goat while you're doing your research.

Lkz5ia,

I apologize for the harshness of my last post. When I reread what was written I cringe. That was uncalled for and I'm sincerely sorry.

That said my opinions about Kudzu aren't changed. It is a terribly invasive vine. Given that you are only one zone removed for mine it is highly likely that you will not be able to control its phenomenal growth. Birds will spread the seeds all over your county. Just don't do it. This stuff is ugly. It covers everything in a uniform shade of green and destroys the beauty of the natural landscape.

As for Rose Rosette Disease (RRD) you hit a nerve with that one. In several posts back you did suggest that it be used to control Rosa multiflora. It is just that kind of action by my state government that resulted in a bio-disaster and a perfect example of mismanagement of natural resources.

RRD does not limit itself just to multiflora. It effects A-L-L roses and is 100% fatale. Once that contagin spreads throughout a rose's system the plant is done for. Given that the rose is the national flower of the United States it is a very popular garden shrub. Many gardeners rely on roses to provide season long color in the landscape.

What does RRD mean to me? Well I have 4 beautiful climbing pink roses growing on a trellis against the west side of my house. Next year I'm taking them down because I can't risk them getting exposed to RRD and then raining down the disease on the English Roses I have growing nearby. Those plants represent a significant investment. Loosing them to RRD would be also be heartbreaking.

All this wouldn't have even started if Americans had not introduced R. multiflora in the first place. Like Kudzu it is not native and is very invasive. In some places the roots are so well established that they can't simply be dug out by hand.

Judith, I didn't say I owned 180 acres. Just keeping the talk straight.

"That's why I'm getting kudzu before its illegal in my state. Most plants are a burden because of feral acres being left intended. I live on 180 acres and don't have any nuisance plant. If people would get more in touch with nature and work in the outdoors most plants wouldn't be a problem. I've read much information about this kudzu vine."
Quoted from YOUR post, dated June 9, this year.

Okay, maybe you DIDN'T say you OWNED 180 acres---but it's even WORSE if you plan on introducing this PEST on land you DON'T own.

I hope your landlord evicts you---SOON!!!

Landlords don't evict people on the assumption that they might plant a plant that's not illegal.

in the same token, inflicting the plant on those who dont want id on that land is totaly unfair to them. I if it was YOUR land that would be a fifferent story. i wouldnt like it if a neibor planted blindweed in my yard because she thought it looked pretty (she did, and ive been fighting with it ever since)

I checked the date on this original post several times to make sure this was in fact a new post. It's a very familiar script.

It seems like every 18 months or so, someone on some forum will start a similar thread about kudzu. When they get jumped on, they innocently respond they were just asking for information. Then will prolong the discussion with a casual remark suggesting unleashing some spore, diesease, or biological agent to get rid of other problem plants.

What the heck; it's amusing if somewhat predictable!

Sounds like some people can think alike. Interesting observation Alison.

A MONUMENT TO AN INSECT! A cairn probably still exists to honor the Cactobastis cactorum for its role in the control of the prickly pear cactus in Australia. I dislike Govt. control as much as anyone but many years ago I had to study the saga of this insect and this plant and I am uneasy with unregulated propagation of plants and animals.
"No cats, no honey" was another example but the details elude me. There are many, many instances of well intentioned introductions that produced horrible consequences. The water hyacinth (Eichornia crassipes) is a good and current example.

I CANT GET IT TO GROW AT ALL- I KNOW WHERE THERES LOTS BUT HAVE TRIED A DOZEN TIMES ALL SUMMER TO TRANSPLANT SOME AND IT NEVER WORKS- I MAJORED IN HORT AND THE STUFF DIES NO MATTER WHAT I DO. IF YOU HAVE A SURE FIRE WAY TO GET IT TO GROW LET ME KNOW....I KNOW I KNOW THE VINE THAT ATE THE SOUTH. BLA BLA BLA

Please.

Not again.

First, if you majored in Hort, you know it's illegal for you to grow this.

Second, when you post in all caps, it indicates shouting and no one wants to hear you shout.

If you read, any questions you still may have after your hort background have been answered above.

I would like to venerate that particular bunch of plants, as they were so thoughtful as to commmit suicide for the sake of ecology and society.

Uf. I can't lighten this up; time to start frequenting a more pleasant forum-site...

Freud would have a hayday in here.
Everyone go out and say "Hello," and "You look handsome today" to a cat or something. Have a cup of tea and get your hands dirty.

The rudeness and discourtesy under the banner of dissemintaion of gardening information (A happy hobby?) has finally reached critical mass for me, goodbye all.

Best idea for this subject in any of it's repeated forms.
Ignore the post, forever. end of subject. It's not worth the time, energy and effort to respond to such requests for info or attempts at growth. Is the original poster serious or what? Who knows, who should care?
Just ignore it and it will go away because no one has responded.

People could we PLEASE let this thread die already?!!

Oh my gosh!!! Kudzu is rampid here in North Carolina. If you are smart you will NOT start it at your house!!!

My word!!!!!!!!.....at the risk of re-opening this discussion I must ask my question, so "fledgeling" I appologize now.

I was in AR last summer and I noticed a homeowner with an embankment just like mine in OK. VERY steep, full of very tall weeds and trumpet vine, a fire hazard, and impossible to keep looking nice. I finally made some calls last night, to some people I know and they all told me that it was Kudzu. I headed to the forums to see what others thought and I surely found out.

I loved what I saw......complete coverage, NO weeds, and until now, I figured no maintainance. Hmmmmm now what? I want something to cover fast, thick, and ideally, in my lifetime. It seems to me that any substitute for Kudzu would cause all the problems mentioned in this forum.

I don't want to re-open this discussion as it seems to strike a nerve here. If someone can tell me something to plant, just please email me and it should leave this forum closed. If so many warn against Kudzu, I should certainly reconsider. And I thought politics and religion were the only discussions to avoid. Now, I find there is another to be added.

So, "fledgeling", again I am sorry, but until now, I thought my problem with my steep embankment was solved. I also liked what Pennsylvania_Pete remarked, "You do not inherit the land from your fathers, you borrow it from your children." I had not heard that before. I like it.

Jill

I forgot to mention that english ivy and vinca vine would be pretty. Email me with any questions or sources for those vines I mentioned.

I haven't checked out the vines forum for awhile and didn't know this thread has been resurrected. Plants don't grow in the winter in zone 5, so any plant can be controlled when they are dormant. Regarding my above inquiry, I will know soon enough.

Whats the lesser of two evils here?

People:
WHITHOUT LIMIT, we seem to feel we have the right to cut, chop, stomp, burn, harvest, blow up, build dams, hunt whales, over harvest fish populations, CLEARCUT, use nuclear plants, pesticides, nuclear bombs, and pollute.

But when something gets out of control without our permission like kudzu we hypocritically flip out and it gets as big as Elvis. Why? Because we like power and control. Small potatoes compared to what weve done.

Kudzu:
according to lkz5ia, It invaded 7 million acres. How many acres have we destroyed beyond repair?
Kudzu is a PLANT even if its invasive.
Pick one, 7 million more acres of cement or kudzu? Ill have to pick kudzu over city thank you very much.

Who cares anyway, its all going to be a town or city in 20 years anyway, if Dubya doesnt get us blown up that is.

RobinP, you must be proud of yourself. Your like a horse with blinders on.

QUOTE by RobinP, "Via Iowa Code chapter 317.17, the Iowa Secretary of Agriculture can declare additional weeds as noxious, thus falling under the requirements of the Iowa Weed Law." END QUOTE

Urban sprawl and ignorant people are NOXIOUS

Lkz5ia, you have a good head on your shoulders. :)

I've been called a lot of things - but never 'a horse with blinders on'.

I'm not chiming in to argue urban sprawl, war, or other blood-pressure-inducing topics.

I'm writing in to simply explain that we will not tolerate the release of an invasive plant in Iowa that will greatly reduce diversity (thus setting off a chain reaction of environmental issues) nor one that can harbor a pathogen that is devastating to a major commodity crop - soybean (historically Iowa is the perennial winner, or close runner up, for #1 soybean production state in the nation).

Can kudzu live in Iowa? For the last two years weve been closely monitoring one kudzu plant on private land in southern Iowa. How did it get there we dont know. We are not allowing the vine to spread nor will we but we are watching it very closely to determine if a good, harsh winter will really do it in or if kudzu has now conquered winter.

You argue that humans have altered land past the point of no return. But, does propagating an invasive plant one that will stamp out the native fauna solve that problem or make it even worse? I vote worse.

Its all great until it goes out of control. Then, everyone expects the government to step in and fix it. Magically fix it. And of course, everyone wants this fix to occur at no cost incurred to them.

Robin Pruisner
Robin.Pruisner@idals.state.ia.us
(515) 725-1465

When was soybeans native fauna? There are nearly 10 million acres of soybeans in Iowa and 7 million acres of kudzu nationwide. And considering how unproductive soybeans are, what a waste.

aha, we've found the secret weapon against kudzu
RACN35
bottle him and spray him all over the South.

my dad (in Georgia) tried for years to get rid of kudzu... he burned it... he plowed it ... he sprayed it... and it came back stronger than before. That was one rather large field that did nothing to feed the family
I thought I had escaped until I started noticing these huge humps of green here in Maryland... yep, it's kudzu. C'mon over RACN35 and work your deadly magic

"Posted by lkz5ia z5 west iowa (My Page) on Sat, Mar 31, 07 at 23:26

When was soybeans native fauna? There are nearly 10 million acres of soybeans in Iowa and 7 million acres of kudzu nationwide. And considering how unproductive soybeans are, what a waste."

Okay, this one I had to respond to. Here is a partial list of the uses of soybeans...

Adhesives, Analytical Reagents, Asphalt Emulsions, Binders - Wood/Resin, Cleansing Materials, Cosmetics, Fermentation Aids/Nutrients, Films for Packaging, Inks, Leather Substitutes, Paints, Particle Boards, Plastics, Polyesters, Pharmaceuticals, Pesticides/Fungicides, Textiles, Baby Food, Bakery Ingredients, Beer & Ale, Candy Products, Cereals, Diet Food Products, Grits, Hypo-Allergenic Milk, Meat Products, Noodles, Sausage Casings, Yeast, Bee Foods, Calf Milk Replacers, Cattle Feeds, Fish Food, Pet Foods, Poultry Feeds, Protein Concentrates, Swine Feeds

Yeah, Kudzu is WAY better - after all, apparently goats eat it.

Goats eat soybeans, too. Most plants have alot of uses. Industry crops have money driven behind them that creates the many uses we see today. And as I stated before, soybeans are unproductive. Look at the yield compared to other crops and potential crops.

I can't believe this post is back again. Enough already, just let it die. If it is for real, then lkz5ia is going to plant the kudzu vine. If this is just one of those trolling posts then if we ignore it, it will die. Either way the discussion is mute because lkz5ia is not listening to any of us and is going to do whatever she wants.

Let the post die, please

I wasn't asking for permission to plant or not plant it. I was seeing if others in northern zones were using the plant and succeeding with it. So littleone, if you have no experience with the plant and don't like this topic, Then STAY AWAY!

just out of curiousity lkz5ia, between the first post in this thread (2005) and the last post above in 2007, did you plant any kudzu?

In the interest of offering a few laughs, take a look at this site
http://www.alabamatv.org/kudzu/

maybe it'll give you an idea of what you can do now if you DID plant kudzu

Grew it in '05, but died in 05-06 winter season. Annual here, but I'll try again.

I guess some people just enjoy "playing with fire", creating havoc with the environment and attempting to destroy land both near and far to where they live.

Just so you Know Ikz5ia, you may find the kudzu you grew to be an annual where you live, but don't count on it remaining that way and the seeds that where produced by your vine where eaten by birds and traveled near and far before being dropped by the birds.
Who knows where those seeds are growing now, but you can be sure it is growing somewhere and shouldn't be growing anywhere at all.

We are all responsible for the environment, what we do, what we grow and what harm we can do with any and all plants that we grow. That includes you too.

Your an idiot littleone. Kudzu, as an annual doesn't produce flowers; therefore, it doesn't produce SEED!!!!!!!!!!! Why don't look in the mirror and stop trying to create hysteria, and quit driving your car and washing your clothes while your at it- you very bad Amerikan.

lkz5ia, you may think I'm an "idiot" but at least I have the intelligence to not plant something that is such a noxious weed, banned in many states and don't make such ignorant statements as you do. ie. "look in the mirror and stop trying to create hysteria, and quite driving your car and wahsing your clothes while your at it-you very bad Amerikan."
By the way, I can spell correctly as well.

As for kudzu not producing flowers in zone 5, don't count on it as our global temps are changing and you have to worry about getting all of the roots removed which is all but impossible.

Sad that someone thinks they way you do.

Littleone, don't feed the troll. Eventually it will go back under it's bridge.

Amerikan is a derogatory term for American. It was fitting for a fanatic such as yourself. You should of copied and pasted my quote, because you misspelled washing-its not wahsing.

""""Just so you Know Ikz5ia, you may find the kudzu you grew to be an annual where you live, but don't count on it remaining that way""""

This is what you said littleone. And annual doesn't come back. I think you need to look up your definitions. My kudzu plants didn't magically reappear after they died. So a dead plant doesn't flower.

I'm not sure why Americans are scared of plants. I guess its a control issue. All the plants are of this Earth. You will realize alot of plants were once native to North America, so what time period are we shooting for. I'm not going to fall for anyone's propaganda. Many of you have your own hidden agendas.

Morning glories are "annual" vines as well but I have quite a few of those sprouting up all over the yard in places I didn't plant them.

Living in Iowa, I'm appalled that someone cares so very little about the enviroment, the economy and fellow people. I hope and pray Kudzu never makes it to my garden. I'll have to look up our OP and have a little chat with him, in person and present a bill for my damages.

I am in a northern area now but grew up in the south. I don't and would never introduce anything like kudzu into this area or any area whether it is annual or not. We have enough noxious, invasive plants as it is. I have a neighbot that lets any and everything grow that sprouts. Consequently, I spend three fourths of my time digging pulling, burning and destroying invasive trees, shrubs, and vines that initially came from his property. I have had to pull out miles of invasive vines out of the shrubs they were are strangling. I have had to deal with poison ivy because he won't do anything about it on his propety . You obviously have little regard for anyone or anything but your own misguided agenda. I also find it appalling that someone would be so rude to another person by calling them names. Why don't you try gorwing native plants to help restore the natural environment instead of destroying it. I just don't understand the reasoning behind your actions.

kudzu lover, please go away and take the blasted vine (and this thread) with you!!!!

Old thread, but must put my 2 cents worth in....I had an area behind my property (and the adjoining neighbors properties as well) that I had hoped to use for a garden or planting area....I have had it professionally demo'd digging down 4 feet with a cat tractor, 2 times so far this year....the kudzu is still there, and still comes back up...when I attempt to dig it up yet AGAIN....I find that it's several feet deep branches off every which way....and has been bigger around than a garden hose in it's girth, like some of the pieces I was able to actually get up...after hours of digging and laboring, were sometimes 2 times the girth of a garden hose...it's like PIPE..what possibly could penetrate this root system?...this plant is indestructible and a menace...I sure do hope that with the 80 odd warnings from posters here that you opted for a nice little peaceful vine to grow...maybe like a jasmine?

Kudzu questions or kokudzu.com will help manage kudzu.

It would be great if people read these places. Black plastic will cook kudzu, and then there is no need for poisons.

During the Great Leap Forward, kudzu saved many lives in China. It is not genetically modified.

The only reason I am posting (re-opening this thread) is that charfair beat me to it.

Kudzu is a VERY USEFUL plant - it is edible for both animals and humans, it is a nitrogen fixer, and it would be an AWESOME feedstock for cellulosic ethanol.

The problem is that the AG industry is against it, therefore the proper harvesting equipment has not been invested in. Just like electric cars - the auto industry killed them.

Personally, in the North, if I was to raise sheep or goats I would plant it as a cheap fodder source.

HOWEVER, I must agree with the INVASIVE argument in this sense: White Mulberry trees are EXTREMELY INVASIVE here - you CANNOT KILL THEM!!! They take over everything!!!

We had one that was planted by a bird. I left it there for years, but it never bore fruit. Then, when digging up a girdled Littleleaf Linden, I noticed all these vigorous orange roots in the planting hole - they were from the White Mulberry tree about 20 feet away. So, I cut down the mulberry - it came back as a giant super-fast growing shrub! Then I did research and was warned that you cannot kill them - the roots will not die; cut branches will sprout. Yeah, right, I thought. Well, I cut down the shrubby trunks, drilled holes into them and poured in poison and then topped it off with tar. The mulberry died - or so I thought! Now I have GAZILLIONS of baby mulberry trees growing throughout my entire yard. They grow from the teeniest, tiniest piece of root.

I had a bag of leaves that I was saving for leaf mould, and when I opened it in the spring it was FULL of fresh, thriving, orange mulberry roots! I had to throw it out. The ONLY way to kill it is to burn it.

The White Mulberry is an invasive species from Asia (also called "Russian Mulberry"); it has almost wiped out our native Red Mulberry trees.

I bought a native Red Mulberry seedling and a European Black Mulberry (not invasive) to counteract this "Devil Tree." Finally this year I gave in to the realization that the only way to deal with the White Mulnerry is to control it by going around and pulling up the tiny babies as they first get leaves in the spring - BEFORE they are hidden under all the flowers, because they grow super-fast and then the roots get left in the ground and then they come back even stronger.

So, there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the Kudzu issue - it is a very useful plant, but it must be properly maintained and controlled, not simply maligned because the interests of Big AG have prevented it's commercial use.

natschultz,

I simply argue Kudzu is beyond your ability to control.

Anyone who says goats don't eat kudzu, doesn't know goats. Goat LOVE kudzu. Kudzu is like goat cotton candy. Goats dream about kudzu at night.

My grandfather actually planted kudzu years ago in his field for his herd of goats. The goats ate it all down to the ground. Then they pawed at the ground and ate on the roots as well. They killed it. I've brought it home to my goats before and they eat it in about 3 seconds.

Goats KILL kudzu and they do a good job of it as well. If you tried to grow kudzu for goats, you would have to PROTECT it from the goats or they will kill it. Kudzu may be able to grow a foot a day, but goats can eat whole vines in a day.

Whether goats eat kudzo or not is not much of an issue, sothergurl.

The facts remain that kudzu vine is a horrible invasive species of plant that has taken over many areas of the south and created havoc everywhere it grows.

If you have goats to eat this horrible invasive, all the better for you and those around you.

Problem is, the majority in not just about all the people don't have goats, don't live on farms to have goats and have no way of getting rid of this thug.

For anyone to suggest that it can be controlled or that the AG is preventing it's use is crazy.

Just look at the areas in the south where this invasive thug has taken hold, and no one in their right mind would suggest that kudzu is useful.

Anything that can grow a foot a day, is far from useful, it's dangerous and a disaster to anyone that has it around them.

"Anything that can grow a foot a day, is far from useful, it's dangerous and a disaster to anyone that has it around them."

Another blind blanket statement.

I'm not saying it's awesome or that people should go out and plant it, but maybe if people started looking at it as a beneficial source instead of a bane, something could be done. It does have good benefits to it. It is safe for both animal and human consumption. It seems to have cancer fighting properties as well. It may also help with alcoholism. Goats love it and will eat it. Goats in turn produce meat, milk, cheese and other products. There are kudzu vine baskets, kudzu paper and countless recipes for cooking kudzu. It has excellent nutritional value. But the screams of "evil", "disaster", "dangerous" and "bad" have made opening up minds to putting this plant to good use very difficult. All things have a reason for being. Kudzu too.

To paraphrase an old adage, it's time people quit complaining about the kudzu and learned to make kudzu jelly.

I live in the south. I'd love to put kudzu to a better use. But given all the sprays and pesticides and poisons thrown on kudzu, I'd be leery of getting any for use that I wasn't sure was pesticide-free. That is why I'd like to have some potted inside my house. But I don't want to break any laws either.

DO NOT PLANT KUDZU
can you Bump & Lock? OMG the people that plant invasive plants without thinking of Nature and/or future generations. This stuff is Nasty & useless! For every leaf you see above ground there is 12 feet (you read it right) underground! Winter does not kill it. It grows under houses, into house, up and over houses. Imagine 60 years of wild growth that I deal with as a neighbor planted it decades ago and died a few back.

I'm sorry.. Well... not really. I cannot believe someone would be so SELFISH to plant kudzu.

That's what it boils down to.... SELFISH. Who cares what happens to anyone else, right?

We drove from Oklahoma to North Carolina in 2011 to escape the heat. We were blessed with a greener countryside the further we traveled Eastward. It was gorgeous compared to our dull flat, brown and boring landscape.

Then came the areas completely covered with this plant I knew not what. It was everywhere. It devoured the BEAUTIFUL landscape for MILES AND MILES. So sad.

And another note: Some have the idea that planting kudzu is GOOD because it's away to get REVENGE AT MANKIND.

I tire of humans with a humanity-hating spirit. Not all is bad. If it is... fulfill the goodness of prophetic calling and go off yourself. If you're REALLY serious about providing for the planet to fight off industrialization then study and start permaculture. Unfortunately, you would need to WORK and SACRIFICE YOURSELF instead of rely on invasive species in a foreign environment.

As for me, I'll consider the plight of the planet, of the animals AND MY NEIGHBORS AND THOSE HUMANS TO FOLLOW.

But thank you for this post. I was considering it for indoors. I'm not so stupid to think I can contain it indoors. It WILL follow with seed .. SOMEHOW outside.

Ask any gardener who has had their residential plants follow them all the way to their church's garden.

DO NOT PLANT KUDZU
DO NOT PLANT KUDZU

I know this thread is old. But I need some advice. I live in zone 8. I plan to plant Kudzu in large pots. Thinking 50-100 litres. I've ordered loads of seeds from abroad.

I am interested in this plant for several reasons. Firstly that almost all of it can be eaten apart from seeds so makes a great survival food. I've read that its good to feed to chickens. Also I plan to eat the shoots and leaves myself, but no idea what they taste like. I read they are healthy.

I am a bit scarred about the fast growth rate, so decided to keep it in pots.

Do they grow fine in partial shade?

Thanks in advance for advice.

I am growing one plant in zone 7. I started it from a seed. The only one out of 20 I tried to grow. I was delighted when as a very young plant still in a container in the house, I got a node to start to root. When I put them out in the sun when spring warmed up, the chickens ate the rooted node. The remaining plant has been pretty fragile as far as I'm concerned. I planted it in the goat yard, protected by a 4' x4' wire fence panel, squared, covered in chicken wire to protect it from goats and chickens. Leaves, so far about 6 months on, are still small. It's put out lots of runners, none of which have sprouted, none of which are climbing the cage. Any runners that grow beyond the cage get eaten immediately. I had hoped it might be a plant that could stay ahead of goats. Doesn't appear to be even remotely fast growing and certainly not invasive. .As an experiment to provide goat and chicken food, so far not impressed but I will leave it one more year to see what second year is like.