As far as the chicken feed goes ... you would want to use whichever is ground the finest ... as i havent fed chickens in about 10 years i cant remember which it is.

I would use the manure. Itll be alot lighter and provide a feedstock, whereas the soil wouldnt. One thing to watch out for with the manure is high salt content. It can burn your plants if put on them at 100%. The more bedding mediums you can mix the better. The newspaper will help to retain moisture (Euros actually prefer a higher moisture content than your wigglers).

No idea on the cornmeal, my euros do it also. Also read that red wigglers do it too.

Depending on the bedding you use you can add small amounts of food now. Some of the bins i use for the vermicompost require more than one sifting. I normally just put the cocoons and babies in that bin and leave it alone for 2-3 months, at that point the compost is pretty fine and there are a bunch of adults and sub-adults. They wont choke on a piece of food too big, but the smaller the piece the faster the bacteria can break it down.

No idea on the mites.

Once thawed my feedstocks do contain some excess liquid. I tend to think that the liquid is full of vitamins and minerals. Depending on the amount ill either pour it in or thicken it with cornmeal.

One caution with grains is that they can heat up a bin in too large an amount.

Bryan

"I also have European nightcrawlers which I want to topfeed with a grain mix. What would be better for them: chicken starter or chicken mash? Why?"

I'm curious why you want to feed your E. hortensis a grain mix as opposed to simply feeding kitchen scraps, as you do your E. fetida worms...

As to the ckicken starter or mash, use great caution with either of these materials in a worm bin. Both are very high in salt, which builds up in the bin slowly over time, potentially leading to a mass worm die-off down the road a few weeks/months. Many worm growers use these materials but do not relate the chicken food to later population loss because they are not aware of the slow salt build-up.

If you seek a granular material as worm feedstock consider any other cracked or ground grain, but consider avoiding use of chicken mash, chick starter, or laying mash.

"I've started giving them cormeal. They're starting eating few hours after I've been giving it to them. How is that? Aren't they supposed to eat the bacteria that are eating the cormeal?"

Hmmm. This is going to take some explanation, so I'll apologize now for the length of my response;

Earthworms ingest any decaying organic material (OM) once it is sufficiently fragmented to fit in their small mouths. In nature this fragmentation is generally the result of microbial activity, meaning that the OM is rotting/composting/decaying. Even if the fragmentation is the result of mechanicl grinding there will be an increase in microbial activity associated with the OM, because smaller pieces mean more surface area on which microorganisms can feed and grow. As the ingested OM fragments pass through the worm gut, the worm digestive system selects the microoganisms as the main source of nutrient that is absorbed through the intestine into the worm body, not the nutrients associated with the OM itself. Thus, the worm INGESTS the OM, but it gets the bulk of its nutrients from the microorganisms living on and decaying that OM.

With me so far? Ok, then, let's move on;

A vermiculture (worm growing) or vermicomposting (worm composting) system needs sufficient mass of OM to create an environment in which a population of microorganisms is present that can support the number of worms intended for that system. Bedding material, which is high in carbon (C), mixed with food scraps, manure, or other high nitrogen (N) materials creates an environment in which microorganisms bloom in massive numbers (more than 60,000 species per gram of material!). All of these microbes are busily softening and fragmenting the OM, and the worms are busily ingesting the fragmented, softened material, gleaning nutrients from the microbes and making lovely castings from the OM itself. These organic materials are also holding moisture in the system that ensures the right enviornment for enhancement of the activity of all the organisms present, and the system hums along at a lively clip.

Now, grain is very high in N, and a high N material, particularly when it is in very small pieces, grows lots of microorganisms on its surface. Thus, when grain is sprinkled on the surface of a worm bed it is a treat that the worms will glom onto very quickly. Consider, however, that a worm is capable of ingesting more than it's body wieght in OM each day (dependant on how readily ingestible and biologically active the OM). A SPRINKLE of grain on the bedding surface is far too little OM to actually support any signficant worm population. The worms will certainly ingest it, and quickly, but this does not mean it is enhancing their growth! Population enhancement require significant MASS of material.

Virtually all systems that successfully support a significant worm population when that system is fed only a sprinkle of grain each day are almost always bedded using rotted manure, raw compost or other highly biologically active material. It is not the grain that is supporting the worms, it is the very microbiologically active bedding. In most cases the grain is having little, if any impact. We've routinely operated worm culture systems in side by side trials, bedding both the same biologically active material, but feeding only some a "top feed" of grain each day. After a period of weeks the size and number of worms between the two systems is statistically identical, meaning the addition of grain had no measurable impact.

So, what all this long, drawn out explanation is designed to do is explain that it takes a mass of material to support a thriving worm population, regardless of the species being supported. Sprinkling grain on the bedding surface is unlikely to do what you hope. Consider, instead, managing a bin for good microbiological activity, and avoiding the cost of grain sprinkles with questionable results.

"Their bedding: non sterile black earth or 9 months old horse manure ( it doesn't smell ) ?. I can get both quite easily. Would I need to add paper to the horse manure? Which one would be better and why? Would one be better for the worms? Would one produce better castings?"

The soil is not necesssarily bad, but these types of worms don't need it and it enhances nothing. Nine month old manure could be very good, but then again...

First of all, is this soiled stall bedding or is it pure horse manure? Is it dry (I'm betting that it is)? Consider taking some home, getting it nice and wet, then smelling it. Put a bunch of the wetted manure in a ziplock bag for a few days, then open and take a whiff.

Manure will not heat and will often have no odor when dry, but upon moistening the stuff "wakes up", microbes become active, ammonia is released and heating begins. If this happens it means the manure still has a great deal of energy associated with it, making it a great source of nutrition for worms, but also a hazard from potential heating. Mixing it with shredded paper or other low energy bedding material will "dilute" the potential for it to become a problem while still allowing you to capture its nutritional benefit in the system.

Consider not using the soil, but mixing 1 part manure, 2 parts dampened shredded paper as your bedding to start off. Leaves, compost, and/or chopped straw are also good choices to substitute as a part of the paper portion of the mix.

There is evidence that worm castings generated from livestock manure produce plant growth response in some plants greater than do casting produced strictly from plant-based materials, but, for a vast number of reasons, it would be a mis-statement to say the castings from livestock manure are generally "better". The manure will work well in the bin when used carefully, it is, apparently a readily available material, and is the kind of stuff worms are generally drawn to in nature, thus, it's a good choice in the bin.

"I've got a bin full of cocoons and newly hatched youngs. How soon should I start feeding them? They've been in their new bin for almost 3 weeks now. I saw a 2 inch wormy. That's problably one of the biggest I have. Before putting them in the bin, only few had already hatched.
I'm planning to topfeed them a grain mix which I would process through a coffe grinder and then a flour sifter. Would it be possible that some would eat too big a piece and die from it?"

It is quite possible, dependant on what these worms are currently bedded in, that they are desparately in need of some food to go into that system! A worm bin is designed to accept an ongoing input of raw OM, which continually stimulates/grows the microbiological activity that supports the worms. Once the mcirobes reduce the OM in the system, microbial numbers decline and the types of microbes change, which is not optimal for worm activity. If these cocoons and worms are bedded in a very biologically active material then there is likely plenty of nutrition present, but if the bedding is something like paper, mature compost, well rotted manure or such then those poor buggers need some new OM added that will begin blooming their microbial meal tickets!

The size of the material is only an issue insofar as the worm mouth is pretty small, thus the animal cannot ingest anything that is too large. There is no danger to the worm from putting big pieces in the bin.

You are actually working at this far harder than is necessary. Grinding the feedstock is not needed at all. Many of the most active worm bins you will ever see, using many different worm species, are bedded in shredded paper and leaves and fed with kitchen scraps still left in applecore-sized chunks. Chopping, shredding and grinding are not required and can actually cause the feedstock to pack together and become anaerobic. Remember that worms thrive in natural environments where there are no bears or gorillas with food processors to chop things up for them. They've been thriving on this planet far longer than we, and really don't need our help at all to do the job for which nature designed them.

"How long do Euros live?"

No life-span trials have been done on this species, but on those worms that have been studied for longevity, they have lived many years, sometimes as many a 15 (in one trial studying L. terrestris). In nature most worms probably survive only a few seasons due to predation and environmental fluctuation.

"Given the right conditions, how long does it take for mites to appear? I have a full bloom of them now. I know when I changed their bedding. I know when I fed them. Knowing that would help me know if I have mites because their bedding was too wet or because I left the cormeal too long on the bedding . Before having the mites, there were molds on top of the bedding. ( I'll drill more air holes )."

Ok, it sounds as though you've been given the idea that mites are a problem. Let's begin by dispelling that myth. There are more than a dozen species of mite common to all healthy worm systems. They are not simply associated with too much moisture or too much food. Both of these conditions will often cause mites to come to the bin surface, either because they are drawn to fermenting grain or because excess moisture is forcing them to the surface for a breath of fresh air (mites are usually found through all layers of a healthy worm bin), but the mites are not in and of themselves a problem.

Neither is mold a function of too little oxygen. Molds, like mites, are common to healthy worm bins and aid in the breakdown of the OM in the system. Large, visible mold blooms are not themselves a problem, but indicate low activity near the material on which they are growing, thus they can sometimes indicate a system being given more OM than the worms can quickly get to. There is no danger to the worms from the mold or from the food on which it was growing.

"...there is some liquid towards the bottom of the bucket. It is somewhat thick and almost colorless. I am wondering if I should put it in the bin as well. I didn't. I was afraid of too a high level of moisture which could bring anerobic situation and mites. But in the other hand, there might be a lot of beneficial bacteria in it. What should I do?"

There is likely a great deal of microbial activity in that liquid. If the bin is already sufficiently damp consider pouring the liquid over some dry feedstock before putting in the bin, or mixing the feedstock and liquid from the bucket with dry bedding befor adding to the bin to capture the excess moisture.

"Before I forget, do mites eat molds?"

Some do, yes. Others eat OM, some are predators that feed on springtails and smaller mites.

Sylvie, you sound very excited about your worm venture. I'm not entirely sure if you are doing this for home waste management or for worm growing, or perhpas for a combination of the two, but keep in mind that both vermicomposting and vermiculture are pretty simple processes, and that worms are pretty self-sufficient creatures. Take much of what you read about worms on the internet with a grain of salt (this is VERY important as there is a GREAT deal of misinformation out there), know that there are no hard and fast rules about vermicomposting or vermiculture as it is a highly variable biological process, and trust your instincts. Your gut will rarely stear you wrong!

Kelly S

Hi every one

I would like to thank the both of you for answering my post.

I would like to feed my Euros grains because I don't think we produce enough kitchen waste for everyone. I bought the two kinds of worms at the same time, not knowing the Euros could use the kitchen scraps. So I'm left with the types of worms. I cannot bring myself to throw either one. I have to Euros because we go fishing a lot.

After reading about the salt content of the chicken feed, I've decided not to use it.

About the cormeal: I understand that there are two reasons for the worms to eat it that fast. 1) worms eat whaterver is fragmented fine enough to put in their mouth 2) the microbial activity on cormeal begins very fast because it is finely grinded. Did I understand correctly?

The person who sold me the worms raises her worms in black earth bedding. I thought it was a good idea since black earth is composed of dead vegetations from way back when the place was a swump. The person who sold me the earth thought I was going to put it in my garden to enrich my garden soil. I thought it would better the worm compost.
But from reading what you told me, black earth lacks the bacterial activity on which worms feed...

There's something I don't understand about molds. they ( molds) can sometimes indicate a system being given more OM than the worms can quickly get to. Molds... aid in the breakdown of the OM in the system.¨ So there is food in my bin for the worms to eat. How could there be molds on my black earth bedding ( black earth 50%, newspaper 50% ) if it lacks the bacterial activity? Molds would appear because there is not enough worms to eat all the food there is in the bin. That could be true since I lost nearly my first generation worms. The bacterial activity couldn't be from cormeal. There was hardly any cormeal left ( if any at all ) when the molds strarted to appear.

Mites: it's hard for me to look at so many considering I couldn't see any before I had let the cormeal on bin top for too long. I'll try to get used to it.

Horse manure. It is stall bedding ( riped wood + pure manure ). I did put some in a ziplock bag for few days and it doesn't smell bad. It was wet. I guess the horse manure is past the heating stage. Since it is not heating,I guess there is no bacterial activity to support the worms. Right?

Why is a worm collar sometimes white? Does it depends on the sexual maturity of the worm? is it because it is scared? Or does it depends on the species?

When introducing a new food, how little should I give to 1000 worms?

Some wheat bran was given to me. A 50 pounds bag. Could I use it as food?

What is left of my red wrigglers's last feed is full of mites. I couldn't see worms near it. Should I add some more food for the worms?

I hope I'm not bothering you too much with so many questions.

Thanks, Sylvie

The black earth sounds like it would be good bedding. When I first read your post I thought you meant regular garden soil. It sounds like black earth is more of a peat kind of product. Even if it is sterile if it is made of plant material it will not stay sterile. I assume newspaper is sterile until it comes in contact with the food in the bin and gets covered with micro-organisms. However, don't feel like you have to buy bedding. Use what is available. Composted manure definitely has biological activity. You don't want it to be heating because it will kill them if they can't escape the heat. From all of your questions, I suspect you're thinking of this all as being difficult. It's really not. I suggest you check out "Worms Eat My Garbage". It's a really good book and I think it will make you feel more comfortable about your ability to take care of your worms.

Good luck,
Mariann

Hi Mariann

The black earth is not sterile. I bought it directly from the land owner. The newspaper isn't sterile either. This is what I receive from the mail. I also got people keeping theirs for me.

I feel worm composting might be a little hard. Maybe it's because I read so much about it on the internet. Some people say one thing, some others say something else. It gets me confuse. It's also depends on the kind of person I am. I would like to do the best for my worms. I want to do the ¨right thing ¨. When there is two rights, it gets me confuse again. Gee! Am I ever in trouble! :grin

I'm also very nervous after losing just about all my first generation of Euros. Out od the 1000 I bought, I'm left with less than a hundred. Everything was going nicely until I started spraying their dry food. I had read that some people were doing it, that is what good. But I guess they weren't used to that. They got the back end of their body looking like a string of pearl. They would come up on top of the bin and die the next day. Then I made one mistake after another: getting their bed too wet ( the bin started to smell bad ), then too dry ( the worms were only at the bottom of the bin ), poking too much in the bin...I couldn't believe the problem was from spraying their food. I'm still not totally sure. Now I've stop spraying . No more worms dying.
I got the cocoons from my Euros, lots of them. I'll be able to get my worm population back up again with them.

I'd love to get the book but it's hard for me to get an English book here. I would need the publisher's name and all that stuff.

Thanks, Sylvie