Nexev, good post. Yes this was the next step in the discussion as I was mulling some of the same things. I feel certain the best place for $150 is in your pocket and a really good grinder will fall out of the sky and ask to live in your garden. Maybe not one quite that size but a bit smaller might work. The pusher is the key to safety.

Compost Pile I have read with this method we loose good stuff to the air.
Food Processor Uses electricity and would need an old one not the kitchen one.
Freezing Again uses electricity unless items are put in a bag outside in the winter.
Blender Electricity.
Meat Grinder I really like all of my fingers.
Garbage Disposal Noisy non tranquil.
Paper Shredder Electricity. I use but am not proud of it.
Chipper Shredder (Blade and Flail type) I was not aware there even were different types of these. Safety.
Leaf Shredder (string type) One guy had I think a Ted Talk youtube but I can't find it about how this was the right way to make compost.
Lawn Mower Noisy. Has the advantage of leaving cuttings right on the ground where they self compost.
Bokashi I am thinking more and more this has many advantages. It can deal with some days huge additions and some weeks no additions. It lets nothing escape to the air. It conditions product so it is right for the worms. An aged 5 gallon bucket can be doled out as needed. It composts vegie and meat waste. Browns can be inoculated and then added to the bin as the bokashi starter and absorb moisture. A five gallon bucket and ten cent plate with hardware store handle to keep oxygen away. can be used. I would add one of those $8 covers that easily screw on and off. A drain should not be necessary if adding enough browns. Time is what do the work for you here.

What is a Verd?

""the verd (vermi-herd)""

This post was edited by otis11 on Sat, Nov 29, 14 at 22:42

A dedicated food processor which wouldn't need washing wouldn't work. The puree dries and clogs & attracts (probably) fruit flies. They even patrol the handle if I don't get that clean enough. I have 3 mini processors -- all from thrift shops --
$10 or less; and one old (40 years ?) big processor that functions in spite of crucially broken parts. I use them all for my own food.

If you have a dishwasher, this is a no brainer: Washing is not an issue. If you don't, do you have a laundry tub with hot water ? And gloves ? This is a dirty dish not to procrastinate: at least get it soaking. Get it free of actual food. Let it dry.
I've been thinking about the antibacterial effect of Dry: it's sort of related, I'm imagining, to aerobic.

My personal kitchen washing habit is not to use detergent if hot water and friction -- will do. Friction works first with water scrub and second with dry towel.

I did put some rotton apples through the processor. Processing food first and aging it after is more comfortable.

Link to the TED talk about leaves and shredder is below,
This is not with a string cutter, but maybe worth re-posting.

The manual food grinder was neither effective nor efficient .
&Talk about clean up !

Electric food processors and blenders do need some liquid.
I hope we don't need to say don't use tap water.
Try rain water, other compost tea, fruit juice, even leachate.

I M nh O preparing food for worms in small indoor bins
is worth the work:
bacteria more active
apt to sustain good moisture.
Larger outdoor (but enclosed ) bins
can handle whole foods better.

Here is a link that might be useful: shredding leaves

Equinox, never having used Bokashi so I dont have a clue as to how well it actually works the only thing I have against it is the need to continually buy EM to keep it going.

I suppose I should give it a try just to see for myself what this entails in terms of how often it would need to be purchased.

With the meat grinder as with any tool it is of course important to keep safety in mind and yes a pusher is important in feeding this kind of tool. I would put one on a small chain hanging right where the grinder is mounted so it will be ever handy.

And yes I coined Verd as Vermi-Herd tongue in cheek but looking it up I see that the word is pretty much available. It has some obsolete entries to things like 'the privilege of cutting green wood or pasturing animals in a forest' and some foreign language meanings like 'green' and 'earth, planet and world' referring to humanity or collective existence so it kind of fits.

Barbara, I agree with you on the cleanup. I did not imagine leaving things dripping with ooze and slime rather not worrying about them being sanitized for human consumption. There is a quite a difference between hosing something down and bringing it into the house for a soap and hot water treatment.

Good point on the difference between indoor and outdoor beds. There are loads of differences between them like the concern of overfeeding. Putting too much food in a large outdoor bin is akin to a micro compost pile where in a small bin it can lead to a host of issues.

Curious Barbara as to your experience with the grinder because it seems to be of no favor to you at all. I only ran a little comfrey through mine and that was a smaller electric grinder (kitchenaide attachment). It seemed fairly efficient and the output was quite impressive, moist crumbles that were almost pellets. The type of grinder I am looking at is much larger so the thinking goes that it will be even more efficient.

Efficiency is going to be very important with the comfrey. With a harvest being around 5lbs of leaves and coming back every 4 to 6 weeks so for my zone I am hoping for a minimum of 6 harvests a season. Couple that to hundreds of plants and it becomes tons of material so in the end composting in a pile comes back around as a favored method.

The general takeaway I am getting so far is that reduction of feedstock is a benefit in any system more so in a smaller one because of parallel benefits. The degree of reduction is a point to ponder, is a puree or slurry which would be ultimate breakdown better or would loose moist crumbles be better? Thinking here is that in a puree there would be much less oxygen circulation. Does this make any difference to the microbes and worms?

I have used a meat grinder with good results. I don't use it now. Here are my observations:

The meat grinder I have cost me nothing. I think your best option is the one that costs the least. Some things don't go through a grinder very well. Freezing ahead of time helps (potato peels). Other things that you might not otherwise feed to the worms will go through quite well (avocado peels and seeds). I did not use the plate with the small holes in it. I found that pushing things through the auger was sufficient, and some things clog the plate (banana peels, onion peels). The mash that came out was well mixed, so some things that might be problematic for worms were no longer a problem in the mixed up mash (orange peels).

It was a lot of work, and a lot of mess. I may or may not use it in the future. The bottom line for me, it was left in the house by the previous owner, so it cost me nothing. Price is an important factor when deciding how to pre-process worm food.

like sbryce says: messy and hard work. Is this the thing you are thinking of ? The discs that the food goes through are especially hard to get clean and the ones I've used would rust unless thoroughly dry, My biggest objection is the food that gets wasted unless pushed through with something else.
which is then a nuisance for anything but for processing garbage for worms.
I used a grater to prepare some zucchini for a bin just now.

There is about 2 quarts left for future feeding.
I wonder how I could make it mold ?
Oats ?

The grates do seem to be made of a rusting material. I would be fine with skipping them. Could one use browns to push through the last of the greens? Or a green/brown? The benefit of the grinder is it is quiet and uses no electricity. Apparently using one is not meditative. Anything that does in an avocado shell is good. But then again worms like to party in them just like in an egg shell. I'm ok with tossing the right back into the bin during harvet.

Mine looks a lot like the one on the left, but take off the plate where the stuff comes out. You neither want it nor need it. Fibrous things like banana peels and onion peels will clog it up.

Mine cleaned up pretty easily. Just disassemble it and rinse it off.

Like the one on the right Barbara, really they are the same just different mounting options. The real difference in these is the size which makes for a larger throat and cutting face.

Good thoughts on certain items clogging up a grinder. Once they get that way proceeding without cleaning is futile.

The more I consider all of this the more attractive piling becomes. The pile will do everything with the least effort if you are patient enough and some minimal effort applied occasionally things can be sped up. Some situations are uniquely different than others, in my own space is not much of a concern where for someone else a few dozen compost piles not quite work out with the HOA.

I prefer to mechanically preprocess "stuff" that goes in the worm bin unless it's melon or I'm too busy to bother with it. The choice of what method of mechanical processing one uses seems best decided on a case-by-case basis. As, frankly, I believe most things 'wormy' (and for that matter, just about everything we do for fun), should be.

Paul

Nice list you compiled Nexev. Maybe add to the list a bucket with lid under the sink to collect and pre-rot.

I think processing worm food would speed things up and provide a more uniform VC.

I usually toss in whole in my outside bins. Cover with some bedding and let it happen. I do "buck-up" pumpkin, freeze excess fruit gone bad, and re-hydrate manure on occasions.

"Compost Pile I have read with this method we loose good stuff to the air. "
EQ2, curious what good stuff does compost loose besides moisture?? I have read that hot composting releases more greenhouse gasses than vermicomposting. That is not good stuff. Also, with a chest freezer, the more volume inside, the less power is used.

" The choice of what method of mechanical processing one uses seems best decided on a case-by-case basis. As, frankly, I believe most things 'wormy' (and for that matter, just about everything we do for fun), should be. "
Great philosophy Paul, you hit the nail on the head!
Happy wormin'

Pete

@Eq^2, I'm going to for a rare time completely disagree with you on one part - the question of 'good stuff' disappearing ot the air or using a bit of electricity to grind or mix or freeze or whatever.

These are all minor things and costs, whether in greenhouse gas or out of pocket or whatever. Worrying about these minor things is _missing the point_.

If it helps someone compost, divert stuff from landfill, and put good stuff back in the soil, it's already a big improvement.

Worrying about a couple of minutes of grinder use is beside the point - like worrying about the effect of the bicycle riders' lunch choices on greenhouse gases, when the big gain is that he/she is not driving.

I mostly put everything in the bin straight like it is with only a bit of cutting etc - but that's just 'cause it works for me (and the worms).

My only practical advice here: for anything going in the bin whole, like apples for example, I try to bruise or halve or whack 'em with something or whatever.

The reason is that I notice _some_ whole foods or vegetables take much, much longer to break down, sometimes bordering on a full season or more, unless they get roughed up a bit. Even freezing doesn't help as much as you'd think. But splitting once with a big knife can be enough to dramatically speed things up.

So while grinding or pulping may not be necessary or be a question of taste / preferences or one's own bin, I think it's very worthwhile to create some physical damage - the difference in how quickly things degrade can be huge.

mendopete, Compost heaps loose or give off: "carbon dioxide, methane, hydrogen sulfide, and energy" (heat). I think bokashi keeps those, but I am not sure because usually bokashi is then buried in the ground and I do not know if those things leave then.

sbryce, forgot to mention... the idea of leaving off the hole plate sounds like a great one. Maybe even get an extra plate and hack it some for something in between.

Going to keep the grinder on my wishlist because for one I know it makes some great instant mulch out of the comfrey leaves and more importantly I can put a motor on it :)

I agree 100% Pete that Paul, yourself and quite a few of the folks that post here have the correct philosophy in having fun with it. I have been greatly enjoying my first foray into worm herdin. With our climate there is simply little to no soil life so it is pretty amazing to watch it developing and I know that once established it will be just a matter of making sure it gets a minimum of moisture to continue. On the subject of moisture... its raining, woohoo. Seems like it has been a year since we had any real rain.

Pete, the bucket under the sink certainly qualifies. Not bokashi without adding the recipe EMs though microbes will be in there working on reducing the mass.

Also have to side up with the compost tilting towards the good end on so many points. Sure if it is too green you can lose nitrogen because there is not enough of the carbon to sequester it. The other option is a combination of chickens and composting, those are some hard workin creatures. A chicken will spend nearly the whole day sunup to sundown scratchin and turnin your leavins if you let them and they will give you an egg along with no small amount of high nitrogen material. Heck they will even mix that special fertilizer into the compost for you and when they are done it can be handed over to the worms.

Let's not lose sight of the big picture lest we loose the dragons of strife.

Paul

double post again, for some reason.

This post was edited by pskvorc on Wed, Dec 3, 14 at 23:39

The finer/softer/most decomposed worm-edible organic materials given to the wormies will be devoured faster, produce more activity in the feeding frenzies/mating rituals/reproductive cycles producing the necessity for you to find a place to put all them damned wormies.

Chunks lay around in there enticing unwanted critters to crash the party and deciding to stay when they recognize they have found the holy grail.

chuckiebtoo

Added another couple items to the list

French fry cutter
Gallager log hammer

The fry cutter would probably be pretty nice for tough things like winter squash.

The log hammer was added tongue in cheek though the idea of smashing is quite valid even if quite likely messy.

Also thought about a contraption I happen to have, it is some sort of can smasher type thing with two inter meshing three lobed cogs in it connected to a crank handle through a gear reducer. I have used this to crush bottles as it sits up on legs high enough to place a trash can under it. This thing is gonna get some stuff ran through it once we have excess from the garden.

Is the Gallager log hammer the same as the Gallagher watermelon smasher? If so, video it the next time you process some worm grub.

Probably go viral on utube.......especially if you could get Gallagher to do the processing.

chuckiebtoo

One in the same CB, watermelons were the finale but there wasnt much that did not see the smasher.

Now this has me thinking more about smashing grub. The action of compressing does a great job of rupturing connection that hold together fruits and vegetables making them spoil much faster.

I have a 20 ton air over hydraulic jack that could be 'pressed' into service. An undersink garbage compactor might do well too. Lastly a simple fulcrum and lever setup could yield pumpkin crushing forces without the violent ejection of verd slop all over the surrounding area the hammer is sure to cause.

Sledge-O-Matic.

Thats it sbryce, Think we are gonna pass on that one though. The smashing idea though will be further explored.

or Daaaaaaaavid Letterman "dropping stuff off of a 5-story tower."

...from the Handy-Dandy kitchen tool company.

Equi2, you're such an energy saver that I feel bad and guilty now every time I use warm water from inside to water the worms :-(

Chuck, you look like Einstein with his tongue inside ;-)

And Nexev, I hope Santa is reading this forum, he won't have to think for a long time to find a gift that will please you !

As for me, I would add to the list a time machine, so that I can rewind to Saturday 8 am sun rises when I reach Sunday 6 pm sunset, because this vermiherd will indulge in gluttony so fast so much that 2 short winter days aren't enough to feed the greedy guzzlers !

FranscoisinAix - That's neither Einstein or chuckiebtoo; It's the comedian "Gallagher" of "sedge-o-matic" fame.

I want to commend you on 1) participating fully in a "foreign" forum, and 2) your use of English. Nice to have you around.

Paul

I cut and slice my veggies into small pieces, put them in gallon freezer bags, then place them in my chest freezer. Pumpkin and melons I remove the seeds, cut in large sections, place in gallon freezer bags, then put in freezer. I find the freezer is key to the food breaking down more quickly so the worms can go to town.

To feed I place some well aged horse manure in a gallon freezer bag, add some frozen veggies, thaw a chunk of pumpkin then cut it into small pieces, and add to freezer bag along with some spent coffee grounds and a spoonful of vermicompost to introduce some microbs. I then let that bag sit a few days allowing the contents to mix by turning it each day and opening it daily to provide fresh O2 so it doesn't go anaerobic. When I feed the verd I sprinkle finely ground egg shells on the mix and then cover with bedding.

Shoot Paul, why did you have to go and do that? :)

Francoise, thanks for the sentiment. We happen to be located where it is our place that folks find on a long stretch of highway so over the years we have been able to help out many in varied troubles.

I feel your desire for better wormin weather. Have been counting the weeks to last frost for the gardens but as we all know it is more about growing next years crop to feed the Verd.

Equinox, a great fall is something to think about. of course this does entail the effort of carting said object to take the tumble up the hill so while the act of tipping off the edge is of limited exertion it in its entirety is not wholly efficient.

Charity, looks like we were posting at the same time.

The freezing most certainly will accelerate decomposing. As water changes to ice it expands and bursts cells. That is probably one of the most thorough things you can do since it operates on such a small level throughout the frozen object.

Sounds like you have a slick feed system and your Verd is surely appreciative.

I have put some of my food scraps through a food processor and have found that the "grating" attachment is the best. It shreds it all nicely without turning into a mushy paste which is what my "blender" attachment does. That paste, when added to the worm bin, forms small clumps which the worms have to then try to get into. Going to stick with the grater. It's for the "grater" good right?
By the way someone mentioned bokashi. I have started doing some bokashi composting and like the process but from what little I've tried to feed to the worms I'm not sure how they feel about it. It appears that they totally avoid it for about a week then start to move onto it. Haven't tested any myself, but have read that it's quite acidic when fist emptied out so that's probably keeping the worms away 'til the pH raises a bit.
Harry

Mine is still going in just as it is collected. Takes longer to break down but then I can just add more buckets when needed. I do like the idea of breaking stuff down just not the work of it.

Saw a redneck margarita machine for making 10 gallon batches that looks almost ideal. Would still require some pre chopping and would result in a soupy mess of things but would do a large batch and be an easy cleanup. I like this a lot :)

The Bokashi kind of looked interesting but it seemed to me a little bit of a pain in having to either maintain the starter or continually purchase it, which way are you going on that? Also the bokashi is just one step where the material still needs further composting.

Have been looking at the mealworms as a preprocessor. I now have pupae in the box so hopefully beetles will be forthcoming soon. After the first beetle stage things should step up a bit on them. Currently they are in an 8 qt (9 x 17 I think) tote and went through 1 whole apple and probably a similar volume of other vegetable scrap in the two weeks since I got them along with however much of their wheat bran bedding.

They are some little frass makers and this frass will go to the worms when they get fresh bedding. Thinking about a once a month schedule for them other than adding fresh vegetable scraps for moisture. This monthly maintenance would entail sifting the lot, transfer all beetles to a new bedding container and as bedding appears depleted move larva to fresh bedding and sprinkle the frass in the worm bins.

The thing I like most about this thread is the incredible variety of things that can be done to not only speed along the reduction cycle but also add to it.

Here is a link that might be useful: redneck margarita machine

Bokashi... "having to either maintain the starter or continually purchase it, which way are you going on that?" I'm hoping he makes his own and makes a post about it.

Nexev and equinox....
I keep seeing people write to gripe about the cost of buying bokashi starter. I agree that buying the starter is probably a bit expensive but you use so little at a time for a batch of the bokashi bran that it should last a long time. Go onto youtube and search for "prokashi".......Brian McGrath has some very informative info. and explanations of the whole bokashi process and it's benefits. He also has a great video on how to make you own "EM" serum, which is what you use to make the bokashi bran. I followed his method and made my own"EM" and bran a year ago and Im still using it today. Very inexpensive IMO.
As to why I would take this extra step in composting food wastes is really twofold:
- was really curious about the idea of anaerobic composting vs. the more common aerobic styles
- often have too many food scraps(or not enough worms)to deal with. No freezer space so wanted a way to store those scraps for addition later to a compost pile or the worms.
By the way I added some bokashi scraps to one of the i/s bins a few days ago and now have a solid ring of active worms around the perimeter. I think they like it!!
I'll keep you posted on that if you're interested.

"prokashi" that sounds familiar. I think I have seen his stuff. I am pro bakashi. Writing about it would be great. We have not had many posts on the topic. Good to hear the worms like it.

So do you put everything into the bokashi like meat, dairy and such that you would not normally put into the worm bin? That to me sounded like one of the big benefits during fridge cleanings and of course meals like chicken that produce a good amount of bones/fat.

Good thread

I guess it just comes down to what works for you and If you just prefer to put scraps in as is fine. Once I realized things would go quicker if the food was broken down somewhat I started reviewing juicers, Certainly a blender would never work for potato and banana peels even if they were in very tiny bits. So I settled on the hamilton beach big mouth. I save up my scraps until I have enough to run thru the juicer. This one delvelopes 800 watts. Been using it for three years. The other day my sister found a Jack lalane juicer at goodwill. It only develops 250watts and bogged down and clogged up . Im sure its fine for regular juiceing but not good for worm food. I dont mind cleaning th HB big mouth plus all parts are dishwasher safe. Works for me, got mine at wally world $50. Well worth it all the garbage Ive shoved thru that thing. I usually save up leavings till I have enough to fill a 1.5gal container after juicing.

nexev,
To be totally honest I have been a bit gun-shy about putting meat,dairy,citrus etc. in my bokashi buckets because I'm worried that if I then add that fermented bokashi to the worm bins that it might smell a bit whiffy. If I had a veg. garden I would bury the material about 1 foot down and let it finish composting there. I'd like to start using my old "Earth Machine" as a bin strictly for composting the bokashi scraps......maybe this spring. The beauty of doing bokashi is that the material can remain fermenting in the bucket for long periods of time until you're ready to use it. Have to admit, I still have a lot of experimenting to do in that area.
Harry

hummersteve, an alternate, or mix the two, technique that also breaks down the kitchen scraps really quickly is freezing. A side benefit is roommates sometimes deal better with freezing than a beside the sink container. Maybe you have read Bently writing about his vermi freezing experiments. He really liked the results. Just wanted to let you know about some options you may find fun. Clear labeling is probably a good thing.

Thats the one big plus as far as I am concerned Harry (my name is Harry also BTW), if it is simply everything that can go straight into the compost pile then thats where I would prefer to put it for sake of ease.

harry57,

"The beauty of doing bokashi is that the material can remain fermenting in the bucket for long periods of time until you're ready to use it." Exactly! It IS beautiful!

"smell a bit whiffy" bokashi is a pickling process, well not as in a salt pickling process, but similar results. I think bokashi made from meat, cabbage, radish, manure, or rose pedals should in theory all smell the same.

I hope to catch your posts on bokashi burying in the Earth Machine.

Maybe toss a couple pieces of biochar... Cowboy Brand Charcoal... the chaff or small pieces and dust would not be missed from the primo stuff.

"Earth Machine" does material Really flow through that? How hard is it to harvest? Is it possible to only harvest stuff that was put in the front and the material on the bottom in the back just lives there forever landlocked?

Hmmmm. If I was using an "Earth Machine" to finish bokashi I would dump the bucket into the top. Then there would be a choice of materials to top off with. Any of the carbon materials ever mentioned on any composting board including vermicomposting. Garden soil is an option. Poor soil. Bokashi is a moist material. Hmmmmm. Sounds like lots of fun options.

equinox,
Are you often referred to as "EQ2"? I see return posts quite a bit and wonder if it is you?
Re the Earth machine....I was planning on dumping my bokashi scraps into that, maybe with some carbon material and see what happens. With the open bottom I'd be willing to bet that just like my original compost bin, it too would soon be loaded with r.wigglers that have just moved in from the ground below.
Do you do any bokashi composting?
Harry

I accidentally did some bokashi composting by adding a pumpkin to a tall think plastic container that had shreds below it along with larger filter bitd from sieving for vermicompost. It is a large amount of the fill in the Worm Inn now. I hope the worms are ok because smelling worms is not ok.

Harry57: Lots of people may call me many different things. :-) When my parents choose equinoxequinox they probably could not imagine the options. "EQ2"? does not sound bad.