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redoing established yard

17 years ago

We bought house in Hurst-Tarrant county DFW--in December and were not really able to tell much about the front flower beds until this spring when plantings besides the shrubs made themselves known...

some of the shrubs are oversized for their location now that they are more mature and are either blocking view to part of the bed or just too close to the house--some are just not a good choice for overall design/color

there are some plants that are just taking over the beds and not that attractive to us--think they are wood violets...

the beds themselves were not that well planned and had no quality soil/mulch added when they were prepped so bed itself has heavy clay composite

we are getting bids from two landscaping companies that had good comments on Angie's List and the yard guys we used at our old house to rework them and plant things that we believe will be better suited...the other people on our street just used their builders' landscapers and maybe have changed things since they moved in over time but most of them had better designed beds (different builders) than ours to start with...

these are some of the questions we have--

we already removed an oleander shurb that was in bad place for a gate and some plants that froze over the winter...

we are probably keeping some of the shrubs like dwarf hawthorne but getting rid of the undesired color/bedding plants

1)is it possible to just till the beds and then rake/remove the undesired plants or should Roundup or some other vegetation killer be used before tilling to make sure all undersired plants are dead?

2) is it possible to move some established shrubs like dwarf hawthorne and/or pittisporum away from the foundation now when they were planted too close initially? or should we just start over -- we could use mature samples but they would be more expensive...

3) there is crepe myrtle that is just not thriving--how long to wait to decide if it should be removed/replaced

4) should we spend the money to have irrigation changed to drip system in the beds or just switch to using longer pauses between watering since new plants will hopefully be more dought/heat tolerant

5) we think the clay soil is hampering the bermuda grass's growth as well---

my husband thinks the only solution is to resod--but wouldn't aeration and maybe some gypsum be something to try first--he has fertilized this year already and put out weed killer but grass does not seem to be covering with any depth...

6) the person I thought would be the best choice based on initial meeting/discussion has given me some tentative plant choices that frankly are not as good as I hoped--wrong colors and plants that seem too large for the beds--which are more narrow than wide and curved--so you can't have too bushy of a plant or it will obscure areas of the beds or run over the low windows in some areas...

I have countered his suggestions with those I suggested initially or some others I found doing research...

should I put too much negative weight on preliminary suggestions vs the final plan---

while it seems stupid to ask someone with experience to come in and design new beds and then say that design is wrong or poorly conceived--it seems even more stupid to choose a plan you think is not to your liking...

we know this could likely be expensive proposition--our old landscaper guy is coming tomorrow to look at the beds and give us some input--he is just a yard guy--not landscape designer--but think as far as labor would be less expensive for just doing the reworking of the beds and installing what we tell him to buy/put in...

any suggestions appreciated...

Comments (11)

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Here's my 2 cents -

    1)First move the plants, then amend the soil. You do not need to use an herbicide.

    2) It is possible to successfully move plants, but success rate will be less than 100%. It is worth trying, but be prepared for some losses.

    3) there is crepe myrtle that is just not thriving--how long to wait to decide if it should be removed/replaced
    This is hard to answer. Wait until it wither looks better or you are tired of waiting for it to look better. If the conditions are not suitable for a crepe, it will enver look better. If the conditions are good, a little TLC this season could make a difference. Google "Crepe Murder" and vow not to that!

    4) I'd just zone the existing system. If you are going with Xeriscape, you really don't need drip.

    5) If clay soil is bad for Bermuda, I need to get some of that!

    6) Did you give him some plant suggestions and color suggestions? If not, do and give him another go, otherwise, I'd just find another designer, or do it myself.

    I think that reviving a landscape is much more challenging than starting from scratch, so be patient and best of luck!

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Sounds like the Bermuda isn't thriving because the clay soil needs amending. Simply top dress the grass with something like cotton burr compost, corn meal, coffee grounds, alfalfa, cottonseed meal, etc etc. Really anything organic that the soil critters can eat. They will amend that clay soil into the best soil you've ever seen and make the Bermuda a very happy grass. I offer the same advice for your flowerbeds -- amend the clay soil with organics and let the soil critters do the work for you.

    Carla in Rowlett

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    When we had a landscape designer work up a plan for our retaining wall and new flower bed we spent a good 45 minutes of her asking me generally what I wanted - she asked me lots of questions about my preferences - I gave her a plant list of plants that I like and told her what features I was concerned with. She did a great job of incorporating things I asked for. Maybe your designer just needs to spend a little more time talking to you about what your your vision is.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    thanks for the input---
    I spent close to an hour with the first person -- the one I said I liked--and he took notes--so I don't know why/what brought the suggestions that were pretty far off the mark...
    just had someone come out from one of the local nurseries who does landscaping on the side--he can get the plants wholesale at his nursery and is basically just charging us for the labor--
    he also said he would just get the guys to hoe out the unwanted plants vs using killer-cide and waiting for the bedding plants to die then till and mulch
    I just don't want to have to do bed maintenance in 6 weeks-and pull that stuff out time after time..

    he is really cheap though--for labor and top soil and mulch to add to beds and 4-5 flats of mondo grass to edge the front beds, dwarf nandinas, red salvia, and some french flowers and 4 red yuccas---would be less than $400--which makes me think it is too good to be true...

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    we got the bids/designs from the two professional landcapers Friday--I guess I should not be surprised at the costs but I was frankly...

    one was for over 4400 and did not include adding a walkway I asked about--it was just for bed prep and planting--and that design seems just too dense--too many plants for the beds since part of the beds are just maybe 2-3 ft from front to back...and she wants to have 3 tiers of plants --front/middle/back...that are at least 24" in diamerter...
    supposedly the design is to scale but physically it does not seem possible...
    we were out of town part of the weekend and did not get to actually step out where they would go...but I don't want this to be overplanted...

    the other was about 1K less--used less costly materials/effort for bed prep and had fewer plants...some of which I had said a couple of times I did not care for...but it did include 85 ft of stone edging--which I don't remember asking for since the beds currently have green metal edging in good shape...
    he would also charge us 900 extra for a disappearing water feature using a small, natural boulder...

    I went to the Calloways near the house and talked to woman who works there about what is best way to prep beds and she said definitely to use the mix of organic and non-organic like the green/lave sand with natural ingredients and to till it into all the beds--not just in pockets...

    so I don't know why he would recommend using the pocket approach--the roots would seem to grow out of that pocket fairly quickly if the plant is growing well, wouldn't it...and be back into the clay soil...

    can't see that paying that much more money is guaranteed to give us a better plan (since I don't like at least half of what either one suggested planting)

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This sounds like a no brainer to me. You basically know exactly what you want and how it should be done. Just use your own laborers, select your plants and have them do the work. Then you can spend a litte $$$ on the walkway you were wanting and have it professionally done.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Planting in pockets is fine, the clay soil is full of nutrients, but may have poor drainage. The plant roots and earthworms will mix it in after a few seasons. I'd augment that with fresh compost and mulch yearly. I'm curious as to which plants you chose?

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I asked them to choose plants with red/pink blooms--no yellow and no silver/white foliage--I just don't think those look good against our brick...

    they both gave me Stella de Oro daylillies--and bedding/ground cover with silver foliage--lamb's ear--and lantana with yellow blooms...

    I asked for guara and red yuccas--and one used only one red yucca when I kind of wanted that in several spots for its height

    the lists included--turk's cap, autumn sage, amaryllis, bunny grass, dwarf Harbor nandina, pinkie loropetalum, large silver dragon liriope, silver sage, red hot pokers, gayfeathers, spirea, knockour roses, purple jew, mexican petunias, stella di oro day lillies (because they are the shortest variety, and some verbena with purple flower...

    plants are all well suited to this part of TX and good in full sun which is what my beds get most of the day since they face south and we don't have any tall trees for shade...
    the ones they suggested that I like I was already kind of familiar with from research--if we had not grown them before...our old house had mainly foliage plants--not coloring ones...
    so their choices were not bad choices in the sense that they were unsuited to area--and some people probably like a variety of color vs staying in same color family
    I just thought we got some suggestions that went against what we said we wanted...and I tried to get them to give me some idea of cost --ball park figure--but neither one said to do something this big with bed prep would be a minimum of 3K or 4K--that would have been helpful...

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I see what you mean. I have a strict eye for mixing colors too and prefer reds, yellows and oranges together, with blues, purples and pinks elsewhere. We all have our own preferences. Why would they suggest yellows and silver foilage when you specifically asked to avoid those? No wonder you are feeling frustrated.

    You should hold out for what you want because you will be the one looking at the blooms every day! I love my red yucca too. I hope you find a happy medium.

    Pam

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    well our yard guy came and we agreed on basic price for taking out the old, adding compost mix with some green sand/lava sand and soil, making gravel beds around the AC units just inside the back yard gate, and planting the shrubs...
    he was going to do it for 1K--labor plus the compost/edging/gravel and then the plants at his cost and the top mulch are separate--but I think I am getting a good deal...

    we talked about plants I wanted and I thought everything was ok until tonight I got my husband to go outside and talked to HIM about what my plan was...
    now remember that I have been going through info material and talking to him about do you like this and do you like that for three weeks or so...

    he was here for one of the landscaper's presentations as well...and we talked about the other one by ourselves and basically never really had too much to say one way or the other...

    now -- tonight--he says that he really does not like the way red yuccas look and he wants to make sure that some of the outside lights are blocked by plants that will be tall enough to shield them from view--
    the light point UP do having a tall plant in front won't really block the light--
    and he wants to do a flower edging--vs liriope

    after talking to him and listening to what his views are--basically half or more of what I was going to plant is out the window...
    so I called my yard guy and he has not ordered/bought any plants yet...which is good...

    but it is just kind of frustrating...

    anyone know how high a TURK's CAP plant will grow--
    I need something tall enough -- about 4 ft or more--but not too bushy -- to go as the sort of final plant element in left front bed--it is by gate into the backyard

    I was going to move a crepe myrtle there but my husband wants something to block the view of the AC units visible through the metal gate into the back yard---
    if plant is too bushy it will block the gate--which is what the pampas grass does now...
    can Turk's Cap be cut back fairly easily?

    how big does something like pomegrante get--

    I would use photina but it would be the only one and that seems too odd...

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Turk's cap will get to around 3 ft. It does die back in the winter though. I'm sorry about all the problems you're having with the landscapers. It sounds to me like you know enough about design and what you want to do it yourself--the design that is. Why don't you pay your old lawn guy for the labor--to just put in the plants that you want where you want them. Maybe the other professionals are just too used to having free reign to do what they want.

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