Ad, I've never seen vines directly "pull" trees down. Not saying it can't happen, just not something I've observed. What can happen and does repeatedly is for the vine to grow vigorously-they always do-and eventually shade out the entire live crown of the host tree. Around these parts, this typically happens with a nice evergreen, especially along road cuts where sunlight is present. So
I'd guess a similar result could indeed be obtained with native vine over invasive tree. Surely worth a try, especially if one likes the native vine(s) in question anyway.

+oM

Wisconsitom,

Please come and visit these woods! Just about all the large trees are wrapped in grapevine and/or asian bittersweet. These vines grow so large and become so heavy that they literally break the top off the trees and many of the trees are pulled over by them. It may be that this area is extremely rocky and many of the trees are not as deeply rooted as they could be so they fall easily under the weight of the vines. You cannot take a step in the woods w/out coming in contact w/bittersweet it has literally taken over and very often the vines, grape and bittersweet, use each other to climb.

I figured using a native vine on paulownias might work because they are somewhat brittle and pipevine is supposed to grow at a fair rate and density.

Where ya at? I'll be right over! Okay, JK, but I guess I'm not disbelieving you, but rather, attempting to describe what
I see all the time. If that's what's happening, vines are pulling trees down (with their weight I assume), then that's what's happening.

I don't see Asian bittersweet in my part of Wisconsin, although it may just be a matter of time. What is very common around here-and I'm sure I've written about this already on one of these forums-is the native riverbank grape likes to climb especially roadside trees, and especially conifers, with their tiered branch structure, and eventually completely cover over the entire crown of the host tree. Then, it's a slow decline as the host tree is no longer getting much of any sun. And of course being conifers, they're mostly not too terribly shade tolerant.

What you've got going on differs from this scenario, and it's probably down to different areas of the country. I'd say give your idea a try! It might just work.

+oM

No more climbing vines for me!!

Today when I walked in my woods, I saw some wild grape vines, as thick as my ankles. Can they pull down the trees? Yes they can. Some of the very strong trees, like red oaks, may fight and win the battle, but most the weak trees do not.

Jap honeysuckles are all over the places. Multiflora rosa can put out long and thick canes too. The rosa is bad in pulling down small trees since the canes are so heavy.

Then I saw poison ivy, as thick as my wrist, or even larger. Another beast.

In my side the woods, I try to cut down all of them. But there is not much I can do with other side of the property.

wisconsitom,

Seriously I'd love to have someone around who knows about restoration ecology! I do have a biology background but that really doesn't add up to a hill of beans out here! I walk in circles trying to figure out what to tackle next...the woods are established but no one managed them when the bittersweet and grapevine took hold and as redsun points out you can find some that will topple trees...I have found bittersweet vines 2ft thick that have probably been growing for 20 yrs or more and with the dampness they just keep on growing and spreading! I pull them up by the roots but is this a good thing or am I just telling the vine to start growing in another direction?!

redsun, though many people prefer not to have poison ivy I don't think that has quite the pull down potential of bittersweet and grape vine....so I tend to ignore it.

I've heard that pipevine can spread from the trellis ( or paulownia :) that you attach it to but supposedly it's fairly slow and if you keep an eye on it you can control it. Doesn't sound as if it has the underground root system of bittersweet or grape.

Addy, just for fun, I looked at "your page" to see where you are located. Just says 6/7. Hmmmm? Mountains of the Carolinas perhaps? Just trying to get a bead on where/what you're dealing with.

When in doubt, get the invasives out I always say. That is, we-meaning any one of us-may not know exactly where we're trying to get a certain piece of land to get to, but we do at least know we don't want the whole shebang covered in invasive vining plants and shrubs, or what have you. And then again, for me, forest succession is really what it's all about. By looking at things through that paradigm, it helps get one away from the more typical "landscaping" frames of reference, even though those may still come into play.

Then again, for my magnum opus, I chose wooded land in an area not particularly given over to invasive plant species (With the one exception being reed canary grass-and that only in pockets). so what I'm saying is, up in my woods, pretty much every plant species is welcome there. Sure, I am working to diminish a patch or two of sandbar willow, but that's kind of a separate thing. It's not as if this willow is invading into the shade......it could never do that. So I've got an area where I'd prefer meadow plants and very tiny volunteers of Thuja occidentalis, rather than the willow. But most of my property is great just the way it is.

Then too, one of my primary goals is to increase the size of the woods I happen to own now. Therefore, it was essential that I buy land with some open area present, some farm acreage that I could convert back into forest. Hence, our planting of something like 8000 seedlings thusfar. You see-I'm not exactly fighting the same kind of battle you are.

Then there's my job, wherein I do indeed get my share of battling invasive stuff. But that's a slightly different scenario. Some of the "invasives" that we fight are herbaceous, or grasses, or even aquatic. For example, up here at least, cattails will completely dominate a wetland if you let them. So even though some of the cattails we see are the native latifolia types, we do battle with them, just so that we can enjoy the benefits of a more diverse emergent-zone plant community, complete with bulrushes, irises, bur reeds, arrowheads, etc.

So where ya at? I'll be spending a good chunk of Dec. down in the Fort Myers area of Florida again. So what do I tend to do down there? What else-visit nature preserves, botanical gardens, etc! In fact, some amount of volunteering is certainly in the offing. It's interesting to see somewhat similar issues in a part of the country which ostensibly would be very different from where one lives. In fact, I see a great many parallels between that state and my own-tons of water, tons of damaged wetlands and abuse of the landscape, yet still much to offer. I don't think I answered your question though!

+oM