John - I think you're prudent to be very cautious - not only is somebody quite likely to overdose on something mentioned in the book and then sue you, but these days many judges are so politically correct that they show an unhealthy sympathy towards unreasonable plaintiffs.

Perhaps, on the other hand, a book that debunked various useless 'herbal cures' that have been resorted to over the ages would find a market - rather as did Richard Gordon's book 'The Alarming History of Medicine'.

I have a collection of herb books and not one gives a formula...that's best left for herbalists. You could discuss the history and ways to grow most the common herbs officianalis, but don't include formulas. A list of places people can go to see a medical plants, like Colonial Williamsburg, would round out the piece. Also, a subtle, but well worded, disclaimer can't hurt.

Herb and Trudi:

Those are great suggestions. Thank you.

The way the project looks like its going I may have to interview several tribal herbalists and shamans -- which will take time, but I'm in no hurry.

John
The standard way to deal with this is seen in the front of most herb books - a disclaimer. 'It is not recommended that you diagnose or treat yourself without consulting a medical practicioner'. Also when giving presentation on herbs, which I do a great deal of, I give traditional uses of the herbs and emphasize the word 'traditional'. Many of the old herbs are fun to talk about, but their effect is almost non existant.That said, some are dangerous and I would, for example, avoid talking/writing about pennyroyal and its traditional uses. On the other hand when writing about new plants, I included pennyroyal and commented on its rather aggressive behaviour, but I also mentioned that it should be avoided by anyone who was pregnant. This covers the information about the plants without saying what it does- I hope.

Many more plants than people think have medicinal value--it's the toxicity from overdose or misuse which is what's so alarming. For example--how many people have willows? They're not sold with warning tags, but then that would cause interest. There's no disclaimer on morning glories or, even tighter, on hawaiian woodrose which you can get seeds for as a plant for dried bouquets.

I just came back from a drill and fill session with Dr Teeth, my spilanthes seedlings are starting to look really good to me, but I'd prefer to see them flower so I've popped a few aspirins instead. If I was a beaver I'd chew on my squiggly willows ;-O

Herb, when is sympathy unhealthy, and a plaintiff unreasonable? And what would be politically correct about a judge who disagrees with you? Shouldn't any writer shy away from prejudicial terms to avoid propagandizing? Or would doing so be politically incorrect?

Ron,

Sadly, this sort of thing happens all over the western world.

In Britain, for example, within the past year, a man was attempting to break into a warehouse - presumably to steal things. His tried to get in through the roof, but the roof was too weak to support his weight, and he fell through it onto a concrete floor & was injured. He sued the warehouse owners for damages - and a judge awarded him damages.

Somewhat longer ago, in New Zealand, a man reached through a car window and stabbed the driver, who died. The victim, even though dying, tried to drive away. The murderer's arm was caught in the window, and he fell and the car ran over his foot. The murderer was later awarded compensation for the injury to his foot.

In the U.S., MacDonalds are now afraid to serve coffee hot because a woman, who was careless enough to spill it on herself, sued MacDonalds and was awarded damages.

These are many similar examples of unreasonable plaintiffs and of unhealthy judicial sympathy.

I think that writers have every right to draw attention to this unfortunate trend.

Herb

"In the U.S., MacDonalds are now afraid to serve coffee hot because a woman, who was careless enough to spill it on herself, sued MacDonalds and was awarded damages.".

Uhhh....McDonalds is now afraid to serve coffee boiling hot.

Quite. And next, power-hungry, politically correct busybodies will clamour for government regulations prescribing the permissible maximum temperature for hot coffee. (It wouldn't surprise me if, in Europe, the bureaucrats in Brussels have already issued them.) Then there'll be inspectors to enforce the regulations. And the price of cup of coffee will double to pay the inspectors' & other bureaucrats' wages....

What's needed is more common sense.

John,
I haven't written about medicinal herbs (that's the proper term, btw), but have studied medicinal herbs for many years, and incorporate a medicinal garden into the garden walk where I work. As said by Katy Copsey above, there is a standard disclaimer for anyone selling or writing about medicinal herbs. When talking about them, I use an abbreviated disclaimer,and refer to the Traditional use of a plant.

I also only talk about plants that are GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe), except with a few exeptions, like digitalis, to illustrate how a plant can be effective, and historically a source of valuable medicine, but toxic, and not for general use. That hammers home the point that just because a plant is "natural", doesn't mean its safe, and plant ID is a crucial skill.

I do find that the medicinal garden always generates many questions; gardeners have an interest, and opening intelligent discussion is positive.

One resource is Michael Tierra's webpage; www.planetherbs.com Michael is very reputable. His links page is a one-stop clearinghouse of valuable sites; particularly Jim Duke's (retired USDA expert, impeccably reputable, also has a fine medicinal garden in Maryland, answers e-mail promptly) website, which contains the GRAS list. Others of quality; The American Botanical Council, they produce the excellent publication HerbalGram, and have a medicinal garden in Texas. Mark Blumenthal is the head honcho, an adjunct lecturer at UT Pharmacy school, and very approachable. Michael Moore (not the filmaker) has an excellent website as well. The American Herbalist Guild is run by responsible herbalists, the head, Aviva Romm, is an expert in herbs for women and children, and has gone back to Medical School in order to get an MD under her already impressive belt.

As said, you can access these sites through the Planetherbs site, and I'd think they can be of great help to you.

Disclaimer--Don't try this at home!

A couple of years back, desperate to end a migraine, I tried something I had read somewhere a long time ago. I put a piece of bruised feverfew leaf into each ear canal...not jammed in, but sorta just resting in the "tunnel." My headache disappeared in moments (HOORAY!) and I went about my business in the garden, having forgotten about the feverfew leaves still in my ears. A few minutes later I was suddenly very VERY woosey (sp?) and felt very VERY AWFUL--like I was gonna keel over and croak. It was the feverfew. I took the leaves out and went inside for a long cool shower, then laid down on my bed and fell asleep for several hours. I will NEVER do something like that again. I don't remember there being any disclaimer in what I read about the feverfew, there might have been, but if so, it wasn't strongly worded enough to have been remembered.

We often hear people talking about this or that product being organic and/or herbal and because of being organic and/or herbal its supposed to be gentle and mild. Malarkey. Madison Avenue advertising has removed the precautions that should be there...herbal and organic describes plants that are grown via a narrow set of gov't dictated specifications, it should never be interpreted as/or equated to meaning safe.

Trudi,
Interesting, in my decent study of herbal medicinals, I've Never seen aural canal use of feverfew used as the appropriate method. Usually, its a couple of leaves chewed. This example does bring up the salient point, though; Do Not Trust everything you see on the internet/or casual herbalists as true.

Yes, unscrupulous advertising is at play here, and I addressed improper use of plants in my post above, but I will stand up for the great contingent of reputable herbalists who are trying hard to get their proper knowledge appropriatley accredited. It is a hard row to hoe, but the aforementioned American Herbalist Guild is a start. And, you have to start somewhere.

Many members of my family use Chinese herbalists to assist them in their problems, it's been very VERY helpful for one sister.

Despite the rapid overdose from the feverfew leaves I was impressed with how fast they worked to get rid of the migraine. I am still not sure if it was the warmed fumes from the crushed leaves entering my body through my ear canal, working like an inhalant, or the direct contact of the drug dosed through the skin...perhaps some of both, whatever it was, it worked RAPIDLY.

DW gets truly horrid migraines, and she cheered right up when I read the initial feverfew comment to her, but her face dropped when she heard the rest. Oh, well.

These pages may be of interest -

Click here

John,
Don't let the above post dissuade DW from trying feverfew as a possible solution for her migraines. In Trudi's case, It seems that it was the aural canal use of the herb that caused ill effect. As said, that is not the normal recommended use. Normally, it is a very few leaves chewed recommended. Feverfew has ,um, traditionally, helped many migraine sufferers.

Do some research and consult a qualified herbalist to learn more of it's effects. Might be a fine opening angle for your writing, too.

I'm new here, but really impressed with the knowledge in these forums. %^)

John: I think people's advice so far has been good. Add a disclaimer. Also, maybe talk about how important context is. For example, some plants have medicinal qualities that can only be achieved by a specific process, or are very dangerous and should only be prescribed by someone with the full knowledge and training. Just consuming a plant because it is supposed to be medicinal is not how plant medicines are supposed to work. Sounds like it could be an interesting project!

Herb: just a little note about "frivolous" lawsuits:
the first one you quote is a famous urban legend that has been used to prop up arguments for tort reform, but has no basis in fact.
the second has all the earmarks of an internet story, so I'd be interested in finding a source for that one.
the Mcd's case: actually bears a closer look. The case is not nearly as frivolous or simple as it was made to look in the media. Check the link for a full description of the case

Here is a link that might be useful: Interesting background

Lisa,

Whar basis have you for saying that the first instance I cited "is a famous urban legend that has been used to prop up arguments for tort reform, but has no basis in fact."?

The example is from the U.K. Daily Telegraph about 3 months ago.

Click here for the Telegraph report

Sorry Herb,
didn't know about the Britain story. Nonetheless, from the news story you linked:

"Murphy, who was nine at the time of the fall...fell through the roof of the Container Care premises in Bootle after trespassing with a group of friends".

Being nine, and fooling around with a bunch of friends on a roof (for whatever reason) is perhaps not what the child should have been doing, but was hardly "a man attempting to break into a warehouse - presumably to steal things". My point is that, exactly, these "outrageous" lawsuit stories are usually reported with only part of the facts, or are made up entirely (though I wasn't suggesting you made the story up, I've heard it many times myself, in various formats). The one I was referring to is an often cited story of a burglar, in America, who was robbing a place, fell through the roof and was awarded more money than you or I could hope to make in a lifetime. The problem is, the case never existed as such. Again, it was the misreported case of a teen on a roof who fell through, not a burglar. Neither a judge nor a jury awarded the child money, the property owners settled privately. From this case, an urban legend was born and can be found on the internet in various forms. The legend itself seems to have really gained steam in the popular imagination when Reagan used it as a "cat burglar" anecdote to illustrate a talk on tort reform.

Here is a link that might be useful: More about

Lisa,

The fact that the claimant was a child when he fell shouldn't, in my opinion, make any difference. He & his friends ought not to have been doing what they did. I believe that sympathy with him is very much misplaced.

The law on this sort of thing used to be that property owners had no duties to trespassers other than a duty not to deliberately set a trap. That principle has been watered down from time to time, but this sort of judgment takes the law even further. It compels innocent property owners not just to indemnify trespassers against the consequences of their wrongdoing, but to do so very generously.

Ask yourself, just as an example - is it any longer safe to have a hedge round your garden if the hedge consists of shrubs with spines? Suppose somebody tries to break through the hedge to get into your garden and a spine jabs him in an eye and he loses the sight of that eye. So he sues you for the loss of his eye.... It is difficult to see why the Murphy case isn't a precedent for you being held liable to pay him $1 million.....

The details do matter. The internet is full of "you won't believe what I just heard" kind of stories, and people rarely stop to get the full story (or even the right story).

My point is not that there shouldn't be personal responsibility, but that the actual judgement should be read for the full description of the case. Similar to the hot coffee case, the judgement is vastly simpliefied to a few soundbites, designed to provoke outrage by the media. Or, better yet, misrepresented by groups with an agenda. Their reporting of these stories, even talking about stories that have been shown to be urban legends, is coming from a specific interest group's agenda.

I'll not worry about someone poking their eye out on my garden's plants, cuz I have yet to see conclusive evidence that their suing me will result in anything more than a dismissed case. Show me the actual judgement, and highlight for me the actual outrageous facts of the case, and I might think otherwise. But still, it should be remembered that one case in another country, as reported in a short news piece, does not constitute evidence of a worldwide breakdown of legal systems and the death of personal responsibility.

Of course each case turns on its own facts, and details always matter, but claims succeed these days that would have been dismissed as frivolous and vexatious in the first half of the 20th century.

Of course personal responsibility is not dead, but that of trespassers and criminals is decreasing and being shifted onto property owners and victims. These days it is hazardous to hit a burglar with a baseball bat lest you be judged to have hit him too hard & there are likely to be quibbles over whether it was justifiable to have hit him at all.

It is easy for the politically correct to accuse people who believe these trends are bad of not paying attention to 'details' or to say that they have an 'agenda'. Paradoxically, although political correctness poses as aiming to improve our civilisation, its effects are instead promoting its decay.

Herb, I think this is just a discussion of different opinions that we are having. I don't think we need to go to a place where me having a different opinion means that I am being "politically correct". I love a good debate, and have been enjoying looking some of this stuff up on the net.

Now, you wouldn't be trying to pin the decay of our civilization on me would you? Cuz I have slipped up the odd time, but I'll deny being the cause of the downward spiral of Western Civilization. :)

For the record, I didn't say you have an agenda, I honestly don't think you do (neither of us are lawyers, corporations or tort-law reformers are we? I think we're just talking from our own perspectives :).

My point is this: if you (and here I mean the general "you", not you specifically as an individual) want to make the argument that there are truly ridiculous lawsuits that get huge settlements on a regular basis, then all you have to do is to find proper examples, citing relevant facts correctly. If this is such a pervasive trend in our modern life, then there is ample evidence of it. I said details matter because that is precisely what goes out the window when these cases are cited and debated.

Do people try to blame their actions on others? Sure they do. They may even take them to court (I've seen it happen). But juries are made up of people like you and me. Would you give some fool 2 million dollars for breaking into someone else's house and hurting himself? Clearly you wouldn't. I sure wouldn't, and I have yet to meet someone who would. So where are these out of control juries coming from? I'll repeat that I have yet to see any convincing evidence of this trend in settlements.

I'm not arguing the point about responsibility, nor saying that caring about it is not valid. Of course it is, we both agree there.

Maybe we should move our convo to email though, I don't want John's post to turn into our own discussion. Cheers,
Lisa

Lisa,

I entirely agree - this is the wrong forum for all this! An e-mail follows.

Herb

The healing quality of being in a garden, working in a garden or playing in a garden is evidentally therapeutic, this alone would warrant a book of wonder. An attempt to pinpoint the particular plants that create this effect may miss the point.

John,

The mention of gardens being therapeutic reminds me that this has been cited as part of the motivation for the construction, now going on, of the new Nitobe Memorial garden in the grounds of the Royal Jubilee Hospital here in Victoria.

Since you live in Washington State, presumably not too far away, maybe this is an opportunity for you to make it the topic of a book?

Herb

Herb
Gardens are therapeutic in many ways and some more than others. I frequently start my presentations with the image of a hosta grower and a herb grower who both need to weed around their precious plants. A local child wanders into the garden : the hosta grower would not be pleased! the herb gardener would take the child by the hand and encourage him to smell and touch. (hope I don't offend too many hosta folks here!). The point is though that herb people enjoy working in the garden - the smells and aromas have an effect. This same aroma allows for herbs to be used in many different gardens such as gardens for the blind - who can locate themselves by the smell.
Design also helps - formal designs are sparse and to some unfeeling but to others offer a sense of quiet and remembrance.

John,
I know that you often travel up and down the Pacific Coast and in your next sojourn down to the SF Bay area you might find the new exhibition entitled , The Garden as a Pharmacy" interesting.

Michelle