Nice! What are the actual variety names, do you know?

I've got to have some of those.

Kt

Hi Roselee and KT, I want some too. I love tangerines. I'm surprised my youngest isn't one, I ate so many when I was pregnant with him, lol
looking forward to more info
jolana

I emailed my friend Linda last night (she is very knowledgeable about all kinds of plants) to ask her what the variety name is. She lives near Seguin and this is what she said:

"The hardy tangerine, and the only citrus anyone should be messin' with, is called Changsha. You can grow them from seed. They ARE NOT grafted on to the root stock. It takes 7 years from seed to fruit. I have 3 covered in fruit. You and Bob are welcome to come pick away!

"There is only one nursery in SA that sells them and it's Fanicks.I got my first one from them in 1999 and Malcolm gave me my other two around 2000 or so. They are wonderful. They were COVERED in ice during that arctic blast last year and it did not faze them. You NEVER have to cover them. They are very drought tolerant. The Satsumas are also recommended but I do not give a flip what the books say. They DO FREEZE! I lost them all."

Fanick's citrus, and other fruit trees, are listed under "Brochure & Calender"

Happy gardening!

Here is a link that might be useful: Fanick's Garden Center

I have a Satsuma but don't know the variety. It is covered in fruit this year, the best crop ever.

I was told the fruit get sweeter with each passing year, but mine are barely sweet at all.

I know a man that has several trees that his father cared for, and his are tremendously sweet, luckily he gives me some each year.

Kt

Kt, I think that probably Satsuma is the variety name. Fanick's has it listed along with Changsha under the heading of "Mandarin."

I'm sorry that yours is not yet sweet. I wonder if it is it possible that a grafted root stock took over, or that it was grown from seed and did not come true to the parent. Just a thought. You'd probably notice that the fruit was different in shape or color than the ones you are lucky enough to get from your friend. It's nice to have friends with fruit trees!

I don't have room to grow a citrus, but may start some Changshas from seed just for fun.

I saw three different varities of Satsumas at Home Depot last Spring.

The fruits on my tree are shaped the same as the guy that gives me some of his. My tree appears to NOT be grafted so as you said, maybe it was just a 'bad' seed that didn't come true.

I have a dwarf tangerine and it has round fruits where all of the Satsumas that I have seen are kind of 'flattened' out a bit, so I thought that tangerines and satsumas were different.

Another friend told me they use epsom salt to fertilize and it is supposed to help sweeten the fruit, but even that has not helped. I do know that soil type makes a difference, but I have several plum varieties, peach, and even apple trees that all taste great and are very sweet.

You have mail!

There is one fruiting in my neighborhood in someone's front yard. Don't know what type it is. No cage around it so it must be deer resistant here.

Apple, peach, and plum trees get raided here every year, either by deer or coons or possums or squirrels, etc.

The satsuma, tangerine, lemon, and lime trees are all pest resisitant of the fruiting trees that I have.

I read somewhere that Satsumas are supposed to have originally come from a specific area and are named after a queen or for the area that they came from, or something like that. They supposedly grow a bit different or taste a bit different than other similar trees in the area.

Kt

Thanks for all the information Kt.

Jolana and Tammy, seeds are on the way.

Oh Roselee, you're a sweetheart. Looking forward to trying them
jolana

From Wikipedia:

"It is commonly called mikan in Japan, satsuma in the UK, naartjie in Africa and mandarin or tangerine in Canada. In the United States, satsumas are most frequently marketed as tangerines. It is less commonly called satsuma tangerine, satsuma orange, or satsuma mandarin.[citation needed]

Its fruit is sweet and usually seedless, about the size of other mandarin oranges (Citrus reticulata), smaller than an orange. One of the distinguishing features of the satsuma is the distinctive thin, leathery skin dotted with large and prominent oil glands, which is lightly attached around the fruit, enabling it to be peeled very easily in comparison to other citrus fruits. The satsuma also has particularly delicate flesh, which cannot withstand the effects of careless handling. The uniquely loose skin of the satsuma, however, means that any such bruising and damage to the fruit may not be immediately apparent upon the typical cursory visual inspection associated with assessing the quality of other fruits. In this regard, the satsuma is often categorised by citrus growers as a hit-and-miss citrus fruit, the loose skin particular to the fruit precluding the definitive measurement of its quality by sight and feel alone."

Kt

Too bad I can't grow any kind of citrus north of DFW. Roselee - you make it sound soooo gooooooood! I absolutely love oranges and tangerines, especially the easy to peel kind. When I was pregnant with my first son, I had a craving for some oranges. We had stopped at my mother's house in Allen and she had just bought some from the store. I asked if I could have one to eat on my way home. She lived about 1/2 mile from Highway 75 and by the time we got on Highway 75 and passed the first exit, the orange was gone. I absolutely devoured it - you should have seen the look on my husband's face (disbelief at the fact that his wife ate that orange like a pig) when he realized how fast I ate that orange (and there was no orange juice dripping from my face or on my clothes)! And, I don't have to be pregnant to enjoy a good citrus fruit!

Denise, you and Jolana! Good thing there wasn't one of those trees around or y'all would've eaten the thing down to a nub. LOL

You can grow a dwarf variety in a large pot, even a pot on roller wheels so it is easy to move around, especially during the colder months.

I have one dwarf tangerine that grows fruit about the size of a golfball and the fruit is soooo sweet! I have it in a 14-inch pot and it is very easy to move around. I don't know the variety, but it does extremely well in a greenhouse furing the Winter.

Something to think about for all you northern Texas gardeners.

Ktsize>face>

Thank you Ragna! Great info KT

roselee, if you have any seeds left of "changshe" tangerine,please tell me how i can beg, trade, whatever, from ya,plmk,molly

Molly, it's much easier than all that :-) We are still eating away on what I picked (yum-yum) and have plenty of them. Just email me from my member page with your address. If you don't hear back pretty quick just tell me on here.

Happy gardening!

Oh ya, and I heard that tangerines have lots of seeds and satsumas have few or none.

My tangerines have seeds in every fruit, whereas my satsuma has only one or two seeds in about one fruit out of four.

Kt

I would absolutely LOVE some seed. How do I get you a mailing address?

Jeff, it seems emails don't get to me when sent from GW's "My Page" even though the email address shown there is correct and is the same that I'm giving you now. Send your address to:

RAGNAA@aol.com

Just to let anyone know that if I don't answer it's because I haven't received an email.

Hi all....I am growing tons of Satsumas up here in the "frozen North" (120 miles East of Dallas). In fact, the crop was so huge this year I am sick of them. Changsha, if I recall correctly, is a cross between a tangerine and the rootstock, Poncirus Trifolia. At anyrate, it has been super easy for me to grow them- I placed them on the South wall of my house.
Kentuck...I noticed the first year or two, the fruit was a bit more variable as to sweetness (some were bland and mealy). Now, always amazingly sweet. My trees are all about 10 foot tall.
I am growing a good number of varieties. I think Owari is my favorit.
BTW...for the most part, when you plant a citrus seed, you will always find that it come true to type. If you plant a tangerine seed, you will notice 4 or 5 seedlings come up. 4 of these are clones of the mother tree, one will be a sexual seedling. It is usually smaller than the others. The term for these clones is "Nucellar"- you will see this word now and again when ordering citrus.
The fruit set on my trees has been so huge this year that the limbs are layed out on the ground from the weight of the fruit.
So...if you want Citrus, I think most people can have them if you situate them just right and pick the correct variety. Just as an experiment, I also planted some very tender oranges and lemons. I have a LOT of Lemons this year. The oranges, not much but the trees are healthy. I expected them to die but nope..still growing strong after 8 years. I do not give any additional protection in winter...just the radiant heat from the South wall!

Thanks for the info, Tim.

My satsuma is also on the south side of the house for winter protection. It is approximately 12 to 14 feet tall and is also loaded this year with fruit, weighing the limbs to the ground.

One grower here, places roundbales around his during colder months, and then covers the tops with tarps for added protection, but I haven't covered mine in a few years, but temps only go down to about 15F here.

So, if I plant some seeds from my satsumas, I will most likely get a true to type plant?

Thanks

Kt

Tim, Did you plant all your satsumas, oranges. and lemons along the south wall of your house? How far apart did you place them? My south facing back of house extends to about 30'-40'. One side of the back door (toward the west) is very hot and sunny and the other side is shaded and partially shaded by a small grove of live oaks next to the terrace. Right now, my 3 ft. citrus trees are in containers; but I'd really like to plant them in the ground so I can avoid hauling them in and out of the house every winter. Where do you think they would grow best? My narrow backyard faces south toward a 6 ft. fence facing north. The sun never shines along the fence...It's always shady...summer and winter. However, I do have lots of sunshine on the west side of the house where it can get very hot in the summer. Would that be a good place to plant citrus in the ground? Or, would it be too hot? Since you seem to have such good results with your citrus, I'd appreciate your advice.

I work with a lady that moved here from New Orleans. It is a tradition down there to go out to the orchards and get bags of satsumas at Thanksgiving - several big orchards there. They were told by the growers not to let the young trees fruit the first year after planting, so they put all effort into growing. Also, she said they usually don't sweeten off until the first frost. I got 2 different varieties at the Harris County fruit tree sale 2 years ago. They had 8-10 different varieties, but these two were supposed to be the most cold-hardy. There are slip-skin and tight-skin varieties, too. And even one that stays green!

My satsumas are really starting to ripen over the last few days. The deeper coloured ones are somewhat sweet, sweet enough for me anyway and probably sweeter than they have ever been to date.

Either way, they're delicious, if for no other reason than the fact that "I" grew them...Heh!

Kt

That is such a gorgeous tree. How old do you think it is?

Xtal

Crystal, I would guess the Changsha tree pictured above is 20 years or so old. Linda M. has a couple that are that big and it's been about 15 years since the photo in the link below was taken. Don't know how old they were when planted.

HERE is a photo of her Changsha tree. I do NOT have any seeds available at the moment.

Incidentally, this post originated in 2007 ... :-)

Linda has a lovely producing tree. Is the Greening problem one that you are fearful as to it affecting your tree?

I'm aware of the citrus greening disease and sorry that the Texas citrus growers will be affected, but if it comes to my trees, one Satsuma and one Changsha, I'll just remove them.

Not much else you can do. Just hate to see us loose so many good fruit trees. Oh well.

Wow...learn something new every day! A tangerine that could possibly survive in Zn 8, and maybe even 8a?
---------------------------------------------------
'Changsha' is an older hybrid of the Citrus reticulata that is one of the cold-hardiest of the citrus for Texas. When grown from seed and acclimated to the landscape, it can tolerate temperatures as low as 15 F.

Changsha is one of the hardiest of the mandarins. May have C. ichangensis in background. Survives short freezes of 13°F, -11°C F with no loss of leaves, reports it survives 6°F, -14°C and also dying at that same temperature. Generally considered hardy to 10°F, -12°C

**I LOVE plants that can be neglected and still thrive well!** ****GROWN ON OUR FARM HERE IN TENNESSEE**** The Changsha tangerine (Citrus reticulata) tree produces fall to winter crops of sweet, seedy small tangerines. It typically fruits heavily in alternate years. Changsha can survive where yearly rainfall averages less than 1 inch of water per week. The tree has also tolerated a temperature of 4 degrees Fahrenheit. These deliciously sweet, small and deeply orange fruits known as clementines and available throughout the winter, come from China tangerine trees and are sometimes called Winter tangerines. Botanically, they are a type of mandarin orange, and whether you are interested in growing them yourself or just trying to find out more about them, they have a fascinating history 'Changsha' Tangerines, Citrus reticulata, one of the most cold-hardy varieties "Chengsha' are prolific producers"' Changsha Mandarin Plant (extra hardiness) Changsha: Changshas come from the foothills of China and are very cold hardy once they have grown to maturity. Fruits are small, bright orange. The flavor is very sweet and is very good as a juicer. Hardy to around 4 F 1155-A ** Real Easy Grow !!! **

^ Interesting...which one is hardier?

Arctic Frost is the most cold-hardy satsuma hybrid tested so far, having survived temperatures as low as 9 degrees at the Texas A&M Research and Extension Center test site near Overton

Satsuma Orange Frost mandarins are even more cold tolerant than Miho.

This Texas Superstar should expand the planting zone for citrus in the ground moving as far north as U.S. Department of Agriculture plant hardiness zone 8, which means even parts of the Hill Country,

Joey or anyone else that might know-

I remember when the Arctic and Orange Frost were introduced a while back, but didn't get around to finding one at the time. Can anyone comment on the flavor? Productivity isn't as important to me, but I want what's harvested to taste good.

Lisa

It’s supposed to be a really tasty. The biggest problem I’m hearing is that new trees are producing bland fruit but it’s possible folks are picking them too early.

Here at the Botanical Gardens we have what I assume are the originals that Greenleaf propagated from. There are two trees that didnt lose their leaves Jan ‘17 (80 degrees then two days of mid 20’s) or Winter ‘18 (snow/ice/two days of mid 20’s). Guess which two varieties I think they are? Anyways they start turning orange the beginning of November but they don’t reach their best until we get a few good cold fronts.

Lisa, that's a good question. Joey, thanks for your reply. I can only address Changsha and the 'original' Satsuma. To my taste Changsha is low acid and very sweet. Satsuma is much the same with a little more 'punch' of sweet flavor.

Keep in mind that flavor is subjective, but I remember someone commented that either Arctic or Orange Frost (not sure which) could have benefited from another generation or two of selective breeding to develop a sweeter taste. Perhaps someone on here who is growing them can give us their assessment.

My Satsuma is planted next to an east facing brick wall and has never been damaged by cold weather except for a few scorched leaves from those two days of mid twenty temps.

Roselee/Joey- thanks for the responses. Good information- my Meyer Lemon is against a south facing brick wall and it's survived for maybe 10 years now? It's around 9 feet tall now. I lost leaves/fruit winter before last, but that's the only time- a cold snap came in unexpectedly and we didn't cover it. So I think I could do another citrus in that area. Just want to make sure it tastes good.

Lisa

Good article. Regards. ActCAD polska