That mud wall is a bear to take out, and good thing, too-- it's probably the best substrate you could have to new tile, if it's in good shape. I don't blame the guy for wanting to bring out the top of the wall to the mud. If it were me, my recommendation would be to rip the top of the wall, and then float IT out with mud, as well, so that it's pefectly flush with the bottom.

Bill,
Thanks.
IÂm not sure I follow. What do you mean by "rip the top of the wall?" Do you mean to tear the top of the wall down to the studs and then add lathing or wire mesh and mud? Do most craftsmen today, present company excepted, have the skill/experience to float a mud wall and get the top and bottom parts of the wall to be even and flat?

A few more naïve questions:

When he chips the tile off the old mud wouldnÂt a lot of mud come off with the tile? And is this repairable?

Another question: Assuming the tile comes off leaving the mud intact, could the mud somehow be ground down to the level of the upper wall (which is plaster). That way, we would get an extra 3/4 inch in the width of a very small room.

Another question: Several contractors who looked at this job, including a posh store that specializes in bathrooms, said they would rip out all the walls and put up wallboard and cement board in wet areas. Why do they do this instead of what you recommended?

Obviously, you are in good hands with Bills advice. I'm not a pro, but I'm neck deep in my second 50's era bath complete gut-job so I have a little perspective.

My guess on the complete rip out is that they think it will ultimately be easier. Think of it like a developer who builds and entire subdivision. What's the 1st thing they do? Tear out every discernable tree on the property. Makes the re-build that much easier.

One big word of caution on tearing down to the studs. Those walls ARE NOT STRAIGHT!! Back in the day, framing was secondary and all was "fixed" with floated materials like plaster and mud. Just take a level (or even a yardstick) and go around the untouched wall and check it out.

Todays materials need FLAT. Sheetrock and CBU don't bend. Any tear out will require a good bit of shimming to get things square. As Bill has told me on a number of occasions, a good tile job needs a nice square room. Make it abundantly clear to whomever you use that you want all those walls flat and all those corners square if they gut it.

One other thing, I personally would pass on the partial tear out as 1 of your bids described. Bills' idea will work quite well (surprise, surprise), as he advocates tearing out the plaster and leaving the mud. Ripping out the mud and leaving the plaster could make for a nightmare of a matching job...especially if he's going to try and match new sheetrock to old plaster. Plaster is around an inch thick and wall sheetrock is normally 1/2". I'm forced to do this very thing (we had to move a door)and I've been putting it off. I've done it before and it's a b!tch.

Unless you're in the northeast (specifically MA or RI) you'll have a hard time even finding a plaster guy...let alone afford him.

Bill, Thanks much. Great, logical advice as usual. I will check references and talk to the contractor again to make sure he has the skills to do this.

Spanky, good points. When we remodelled our kitchen 15 years ago, a carpenter spent at least half a day levelling a wall with string and a level. All the cabinets hung flat as a board and tile-setting on the backsplash was a snap. After 15 years, no problems.

Recently, when we did another bathroom, we found that when we replaced a plaster wall with wallboard, the flange of a waste pipe sticks out. For the reasons you mentioned (1-inche thick plaster) this was buried in the old wall.

THANK YOU for a great question. I have been delaying redoing a mud bathroom. I have had some estimates done and all want to take it down to the studs. It is a shame if the mud job is in good condition to just d/c it like that. This is a 5x7 bathroom and they want!!! $20,000, more or less to redo it. I really don't have that kind of money and have been looking for other alternatives. Re-Bath is out. I'd like to be able to do some of the work myself, minus electrical and plumbing. Does anyone have any suggestions re getting help, experience in doing some of this?

Interesting as we have a similar situation with our 1930s bathroom which still has not leaked!. We are hoping to remud the walls to get them straight and then use a membrane on top.

I am now wondering whether we can leave the mud? However Bill mentioned cracks as being a situation where this might not be advisable and we have long-time (maybe 40 years old) cracks in the tile on the outside wall of this bathroom. This wall is constructed of tile on mud then red tile then brick with no lathe at all. There are other cracks are on that wall outside the shower as well so I think they must be to do with settling or water getting in from outside rather than from the tile but whatever happened happened a long time ago. So should we take all of the mud away? Thanks

I would. It takes alot to crack a wire reinforced mud wall... enough that I wouldn't want to take a chance on subjecting the new tile to those kinds of forces. It's things like that that take a beautiful new bathroom and turn it into your worst nightmare.

Thanks Bill.

Regarding the "demo" work. I've been advised that it will take 2 strong men, with sledge hammers (12 to 16 lbs) and wire cutters, wrecking bars , safty glasses, gloves, eye
protection and dust masks a full day(if they're lucky) to completely tear out an average 5x7 bath. Does anyone dispute this? I'm thinking of a cutoff saw with a concrete
blade or one that will deal with both concrete and wire lathe and simply cut out 16" to 18" squares right down to the studs and pry them off that way. Again; any thoughts

I'm thinking of a cutoff saw with a concrete

Sounds like a winner to me!

IF you're looking to take down the whole wall-- studs and all. Otherwise, you don't want to take the chance on scoring the studs with that cut off saw and weakening the wall. Along the same lines, though, it wouldn't hurt to use a heavy duty skil-saw with a diamond blade on it, where you can set the depth of the cut-- SO LONG as you can be sure of how deep to set it.