try over at the laundry forum and read some of the posts.

mold in front loaders occurs when you don't let the rubber door seal dry out after use. leave the door open and you'll have no problem

We bought a GE top loader in 2007 --- no agitator. We are pretty happy with it but I don't know if the model is still available ... It is a GE Profile Harmony series.

Thanks for referring me to the laundry forum, Antss, I posted and we bought a washer/dryer last night. :o) Will follow your advice and leave the washer door open.
weiss, we decided on a Whirlpool Duet set, fingers crossed!!

We have had the Kenmore variant of the Duet, the HE3 Elite, for 6 years now with only one little problem when our housekeeper managed to dislodge the door seal while pulling a rug out. I put it back on myself without any trouble.

Not sure if this is still accurate, but when we bought the Duet washer it was made in Germany by Whirlpool's German affiliate, Bauknecht. The dryer was made in America at the time, but that is not likely now given Whirlpool management's propensity to move production to machiladoras. In any case, the quality of the washer is readily evident. Everything about it is top notch. The biggest problem people encountered with the front loaders was improper installation. There were, and perhaps still are, 4 shipping bolts in the back of the washer that MUST be removed prior to plugging the washer in. Be sure the installation and leveling of the machine is scrupulously performed with all shipping materials properly removed and I will wager the machines will delight.

Hi mojavean, I sure hope they know how to install them. My husband is going to watch, so hopefully all will go well.

Re. manufacture, I've read conflicting info. Some of it states they are all made in Mexico, but other info says 3.5 c ft. models and smaller are made in Mexico, and 3.8 and larger are made in Germany. I'll check the boxes when they are delivered.

I usually read of complaints from people who do not know how to use them or are not familiar with the differences between FL and TL washers.

I have had a FL washer for over 7 years without a problem. I learned from my mother, in childhood, to leave the lid open for a while. I have done the same thing with every washer I have owned or used. I have never had any odors to date. Just leave the door cracked about an inch, for a while.

FLers do take longer, but they do not use an aggressive agitator to clean the clothes. I have found that clothes do not wear out as fast in a FLer. This is proven by how long my clothes last, plus the fact that I do not have to clean the lint from my WP dryer lint filter as often.

I've always left top loaders open when not in use, so I am going to do the same with the new FL. If clothes last longer, that's another plus. The agitator does seem to cause lots of fabric thinning.

Also, the FL's rinse the soap out SO much better. When I bought mine, the salesman told me to put a load of my clean towels in there with no soap, and watch all the soap suds froth up from the residue that my old top loader had always left. He was right! I ended up washing a bunch of supposedly-clean sheets, towels, jeans and other heavy items when I first got my FL, just to get the old soap out.

Yikes, I am definitely going to try that with our queen comforter. I bet it has lots of soap in it as the top loader is a tight fit.

Petra, also, you don't need to use as much detergent in a FL. Of course, you do need to buy for FL's the "HE"-labelled detergent. But also, do some experimenting, because I find I only need to use half to three-quarters the amount that it says on the label.

Yes, I already noticed that! We buy eco detergent which is suitable for HE washers (according to the label) and has 2 different levels on the measuring cap. I used the HE recommended level for the very first load this morning, and got major suds. Second load, I used half that and just got a few suds. I can't get over how little water it uses, so different from top loaders.

My information is out of date, but a friend and I did a casual survey of various machines and their owners awhile back and came to the conclusion that the difference between a high end top loader and an equivalent front loader wasn't that large. The better top loaders let you control the agitation. I only use "aggressive" for heavy towels on mine. We also came to the conclusion that the claims of cleaner clothes (at least back then) was because it was harder to overfill the front loaders. Also, the amount of detergent used seemed pretty much the same for the same sized load--I think all the front loaders we compared at that time had a significantly smaller maximum capacity but the front loaders could be set to handle the same size. I can't remember if you could adjust the front loaders for load size.

For me, it's the way they operate that matters. I like the basket arrangement of my top loader, and like the work surface, and it's easier on my back than a similar height front loader.

There may be a front loader that's better than a top loader, but in general, the ones I've seen seem equivalent for usage, though I think they use less water.

"...the amount of detergent used seemed pretty much the same for the same sized load..."

Sir or Madame...you don't know what you're talking about!

Would have made the same comment based on your other statements as well but this one is hilarious.

Glad you like the machine you have, but your supposed comparative info is bogus.

I'm glad you think I'm hilarious. I told you above my info was informal--just among people who know each other--and it's out of date, as I said. I don't know if the front loader users were using too much detergent in their machines, but that's what we found when we compared. My reason for getting into it was that so many people on GW were raving about front loaders I was interested to see what I was missing. The answer was probably some water savings.

My point was that the quality of the machine, detergent, water and laundress are just as important in getting clothes clean as the type of machine used, and that there are other considerations in making the choice than the ones previously mentioned.

If you'd like to do a similar survey on today's models I'd be interested to know your results. Much more useful to provide data (either rigorous or anecdotal) than to deride someone else's info without countering it.

I know many here don't believe in Consumers' Reports, but the last time I saw washers rated, they didn't recommend ANY top loaders. Their reasoning was to the effect that TL designs had been dumbed down so far to meet current energy/water consumption standards that none were capable of getting clothes clean.

Well, I am no expert, but the clothes washed in the new FL today feel and smell a lot cleaner than those washed in my old Gibson TL, even though I used a lot less detergent.

Once you go front loader, you will never go back to a top loader!

Plllog - I almost always agree with what you write on the Gardenweb, but this has to be the one exception. Front loaders do get the clothes cleaner, and with a lot less wear and tear. There's no agitator to wind the clothes around. The amount of detergent is significantly less--and the HE detergent sudses a lot less than the non-HE type. Really, after experimenting with smaller and smaller amounts of detergent in my Miele front loader, I find I can use such a small amount--much less than the bottle instructs--and the clothes still come out beautifully clean (though I still spot-clean if there's been a spill of coffee or the like). And FL's DO use less water. As to whether you can "adjust the front loaders for load size", my front loader adjusts the water level itself according to the size load; I don't need to do anything. I can wash just a couple of pillowcases, or I can wash several sets of sheets, towels, jeans, etc., and the washer adjusts the water level accordingly. As to being hard on the back, I find the opposite to be the case--my FL's are on pedestals, and I find it easier to pull out the clothes quickly from my FL, than I did having to awkwardly bend to reach down to the bottom of my TL, and have the tug-of-war with the agitator.

After I got my FL, the TL's don't seem to make any sense, seem antiquated, and I wonder why they're still on the market (well, price, of course, since TL's are cheaper, but the FL's have come down in price quite a bit, and that will continue).

Thank-you, AKchicago, for actual information. I don't mind being disagreed with or set right, just don't find name calling particularly useful. I only piped up to begin with because I've never suffered from the bugaboos that seem to be attributed to top loaders and know that there are some reasons that some people might prefer them. I think the newer front loaders must be more sophisticated than any I've used myself, however. What you've said about the newer top loaders having the function designed out of them makes sense, as well. Mine is nine years old.

What I said about ease on the back was for a machine that's the same height--work surface height--as mine. I use the top of my washer and a front loader would have to be raised. Also I'm a fiber artist, so I have other reasons for preferring a top loader, but that's a whole other story that's not applicable to this forum.

For the record, I don't get clothes wound around the agitator or a tug of war (I think my machine is self-balancing or something), I have very old, much washed clothes that don't show the kind of overall wear that you're talking about (as opposed to elbow wear, and the like). And my clothes come very clean without fuss. I've had occasion to run clothes through on rinse only and don't get clouds or suds from detergent left in the cloth. This is why I've been so bemused!! My one problem--the reason I started investigating the "cleaner clothes" idea, and front loaders in general--has been hand towels that seem to get gunky with hand soap, but that's the mild detergent not the machine. When I did them during the remodel in my mother's top loader, using her supermarket powder (Tide? All? Something that hurts my skin to touch it...) they came out just fine. So now I add a little Oxyclean to the towels and they're nice and white.

I don't use much detergent. I (and some of the friends in the survey) use 7th Generation free and clear, which is the same stuff for either kind of machine. I just checked the label. I use approx. their recommendation for HE (approx. because I'm not compulsive about the measure). It sounds like you would also use less detergent in your Miele ("smaller and smaller amounts"), and Petra said so too, so that does explain the discrepancy in my little survey--the others were probably just using the recommended amount, when, with all else equal, they could have used less.

Questions: I know there are some European models (and maybe others as well) that let you set the water temperature by number and heat their own water. That's a definite plus! Is that a normal feature in the ones they sell here? Can you also set the water quantity for more than the sensor thinks is optimum?

ok, i'll bite: what is a 'fiber artist'?

ROTFLOL!!! Mojavean, that's a hoot!!! Love it!!

A fiber artist works with anything from reeds to hair to paper. I work primarily with cloth, thread and yarn and use a washing machine in different ways than just for cleaning clothes--but not enough for a separate washer. Which is why I said that was for another forum. In said other forum the consensus was for top loaders, but that's not about laundry. Just for laundry I was seriously looking at a front loader when I first heard such good things about them, but then couldn't find enough advantage to make it worth changing. The biggest advantage, to me, is the water savings. Akchicago and others above have convinced me about the reality of detergent savings, as well.

I'm also a wannabe fibre artist with a TL. I got it back in the "lonely Maytag repairman" days, and when it dies, I suppose I'll have to start researching FLs to clean my clothes. For my shrinking/felting/distressing playtimes, I plan on reverting to my grandma's laundry implements - a washboard and basin.

I, know all about the mold, in front loader's. I, had the first maytag front loader, when they came out, and was in on the law suit. Now I, have the whirlpool, front loader. I, would never to back to a top loader. Now there is more information on taking care of the front loader,s. I, wipe, the front gasket out after every wash, and leave the door open. They have a clean cycle, on the machine, that tell,s you to run 2/3 cup of bleach thru the machine, once a month. As far as taking so long to wash, You have different setting, on it. sharaz

Hmmm. my brother uses reeds. He plays clarinet. Does that make him a 'fiber artist'?

It does if he uses his old reeds to make sculptures.

I have felted wool in a FL. I haven't done a lot of it, so I can't say if it took longer or was harder to get the same result, but I was relieved that I didn't have to do it entirely by hand. Can't tell you about other types of fibers -- or even a great variety of wool yarns for that matter -- just that it is possible.