I would check with the manufacture first. While it might not be listed as toxic or hazardous under the warning label who knows what other less toxic issues there could be. I personally don�t use bleach unless I absolutely have to (the smell makes nauseas) For stubborn stains in ceramic and porcelain I keep (I�m only 32 w/all my teeth) a box of denture cleaning tabs around .another great mix I like is backing soda w/a dash or two of dish soap mix in peroxide till it�s a sloppy paste and then smear away the longer you let it sit the whiter it gets. This is my sub for comet /Ajax etc. even whitens and degreases plastics, (i.e. my dogs kibble tubs) oh yah just remembered this mix is also what worked to get the skunk off my female mastiff (something Iwouldn't wish on my worst enemy). Sorry if I got a little excited /carried away and I hope this helps.

Thanks, my wife also hates bleach... or any cleaning fragrance, we have to use the "free" laundry soap. She can smell the other soap even after the garment has been air dried in bright sunshine on the old fashioned cloths line.

I grew up with bleach and lots of other bad stuff, DDT comes to mind, and I'm still alive an "kicking" at 73.

Your ideas on how to do a per-item clean-and-shine is worth keeping a record of, albeit the text within the parenthesis is a bit garbled - seems to just be a problem with the fraction generation. Maybe it is better if you use 1/2 rather than pre-cast, my keyboard doesn't have one on its printed display, but I seem to recall seeing the 1/2 and maybe 1/4 on keys somewhere else.

I do like vinegar and peroxide for cleaning... the latter I use in my ears to remove wax. My doctor recommended vinegar and rubbing alcohol 50/50.

I will try some other brands of dish washer soap, I think the manufacturer recommends one of the tablets. I prefer to use a more economical powder.

Our little Westie (Terrier) has a white plastic tray, but the dishes are stainless steel. They are easy to clean and he gets mostly kibble, but we have taken to adding a oz or two of low fat chicken broth... he likes that and he is missing several teeth, we had to have one removed a couple of months back - he is a rescue dog and had some rough times, lost most of his hearing to a yeast infection the vet thinks was the cause. I'll guess a Mastiff eats as much kibble in one bite as our little Westie eats in a day.

We're still trying to find a weight control kibble that he will like/eat. His past near starvation makes him a "good" eater. Hum, seems I changed the subject of this thread, but I was my start so... love to talk about dogs.

I just came across a great Youtube of two dogs dining. I can send along if you'd like to watch.

Tangent to the question in the OP - I would like to see the formula for the chemical reaction for adding bleach and ammonia to get HCL.

I have been using dishwashers for upteem yrs; longer than some of you have been alive. I have never added anything other than the rinse agents if I notice my glasses are "cloudy." I wld be very leery of adding anything but perhaps someone knows more than me. I do know that to prevent red staining in plastic containers, you wash them in cold water, never hot. Hot will set stains. After you get the "red" out, I suppose you cld put in dw, but I usually don't. I recently switched to Finish Quantum for my dw & I think it does a superior job.

Yes I would love to see the you tube video! Im always getting off topic too especialy when it comes to dogs. Sorry about the garbled text i'm not sure what happened. And yes my mastiffs eat about 9cups of Kirkland brand weight control a day . I add cooked yam and/or boiled eggs mashed homade chicken broth, and a dollop of mollases etc.. Rececently they decided to add figs from our two trees to thier diet . give your pup a scratch on his belly for me, my first mastiff had tooth problems too. It didnt seem to be as hard for him to eat if i softened his food and then chilled it. after seeing what happend to him I have a tube of doggie toothpaste and the dentist gives me two freebee tooth brushes twice a year.
ooops back to cleaning ...am i the only one without a dishwasher?

Yep that's a Mastiff all right : ) Somehow he looks friendly.

As for the chemical reaction between chlorine bleach and ammonia, it may be that the danger is simply chlorine gas, and that gas actively combines with water (vapor in the air and lungs) to form hydrochloric acid.

But to the request, From "About.com", The chemicals Involved
â¢NH3 = ammonia
â¢HCl = hydrochloric acid
â¢NaOCl = sodium hypochlorite (bleach)
â¢Cl = chlorine
â¢Cl2 = chlorine gas
â¢NH2Cl = chloramine
â¢N2H4 = hydrazine
â¢NaCl = sodium chloride or salt
â¢H2O = water

Likely Chemical Reactions from Mixing Bleach and Ammonia
The bleach decomposes to form hydrochloric acid, which reacts with ammonia to form toxic chloramine fumes:
First the hydrochloric acid is formed:

NaOCl â NaOH + HOCl

HOCl â HCl + O
And then the ammonia and chlorine gas react to form chloramine, which is released as a vapor:

NaOCl + 2HCl â Cl2 + NaCl + H2O

2NH3 + Cl2 â 2NH2Cl

He's 244lb�s of friendly. So I was always told not to add dish soap to say your bucket of bleach water due to the ammonia in almost all dish soaps. Now I'm wondering if there is enough ammonia in commercial dish soap to actually cause enough vapors to be harmful or would you actually have to poor straight ammonia into pure bleach in an enclosed space? On a personal note I'm not yet well versed in all the posting etiquette yet and am not sure if the pic in my prior post is kind of a "faux pas" let me know. I'd like to grow out of my "internet -idiot" phase quickly. Thanks.

I don't like mixing chemicals. I buy white vinegar, ammonia, bleach by the gallon and use them SEPARATELY. They are all good cleaners. I dump about a cup of bleach in my toilet, let it sit, then scrub and flush. To me it's the best toilet cleaner around. I don't need no fancy chemicals,lysol, etc.

244 pounds, that's a big one. The largest dog we've had was a large Golden Retriever at about 90 pounds. Did you watch the dog video I sent by email? The picture on your post is "beautiful".

Your 244lb's text above has a strange character where I have assumed you typed an apostrophe. Does mine text have the same problem? I typed without spaces: 244, lb, apostrophe, s.

I think a 10 quart bucket of water with ammonia and bleach (in whatever amount is typical) can produce enough harmful vapors to make the throat burn... or pouring a 1/2 cup of each (for example) in the toilet to clean that. I don't think we have any ammonia and haven't had it in our standard cleaning supplies in many years, if ever. I know my mother used it, now that was a long time ago.

My testing seems to have increased the cleaning of my dishwasher - I guess I put about 3 or 4 oz of bleach in the tub and the normal amount of powder soap. The bleach did cause some strong smell - just bleach smell but more than I expected it would. I suppose the high pressure spray heads may cause more of it to go into vapor. I'll not use it any further...for now.

Thank you jerry, now i can relax right lol. And it didn't even dawn on me to check my email for the video. So as soon as i finish this post im going to go wach it.
As far as the jarbled text, no your text doest do that and i havent seen it anywhere else. It doest show up on mine until it's posted. So I clicked on the contact us link for the website and ask them if they knew what was going on , and linked them to my first response to you.
They sent me back an email saying that they are working on fixing the issue and apologized for having an issue. I love this website more and more every day.
I also havent used amonia for any cleaning in years, did you know it smells just like pee to animals. My goofy neighbor couln't figure out why all the cats in the neighborhood would always pee on his patio furniture , he said every other day he was having to wipe it down with amonia. Needless to say i busted up laughing told him why and hasnt used it since. Ido run bleach once a month in my washing machine to disinfect it using cold water only because it will only whiten if you use warm/hot water. I think the hotter water also increase the smell ,steam maybe? please forgive my spelling in this post i have to get up at 4:30. Thanks again gonna go see the video and hit the hay.