Here is what I was thinking for the mudroom area. I know that it's quite narrow but I was trying to stay within the 6'2" space that was already provided. We will have 4" walls.

I am debating about adding that door on the side. I thought it would be nice to have an entrance for teen drivers living at home but it takes away some storage space.

I like it!

I don't think you can do pocket doors between the dining room and foyer, though. There's not enough wall between the doorway and the stairs to hold a door. I'd do French doors.

I like your ideas for swapping the laundry and powder room, and enlarging the mudroom.

I'll add the floor plan so you get more comments

We will have 4" walls.

Just curious how you plan to achieve that.

If you put the laundry into that half-bath space, it's going to be tiny. I'd say stack the machines . . . and still you'll have essentially no workspace.

Personally, I'd leave the laundry room where it is. I understand the desire to have the laundry near the master bath, but the laundry/mudroom is a better combination than the half-bath/mudroom.

If you keep the laundry in its current position, you could have a laundry chute from the kids' bath to the laundry area.

Adding the side door for teenaged drivers, who will not park in the garage, is a good choice. Remember to allot plenty of parking space when you lay out your driveway pad.

In the master bath, I'd eliminate that "cut out corner" between the toilet and the tub -- looking at the exterior of the house. This would eliminate an expensive "jog" around the exterior and would simplify the roofline. BIG savings. It would give you slightly more space at the master bath toilet, which I don't think you really need . . . but I'd do it for the savings.

Along the same lines, I'd flatten out that bump on the front of the garage. It adds expense but doesn't serve any purpose.

Where would you add a closet in the dining room? I"m guessing the under-stair space would open up into the dining room as a closet?

I assume you're adding the doors to the foyer/dining room for quiet? Don't forget to add a single door to the "back side" of the dining room too.

The kitchen is an odd size. As it's designed now, with the island, it allows only the bare minimum of space -- you couldn't have seating at the island, and it's going to be an obstacle -- with a large family, this area will feel congested. On the other hand, if you eliminate the island, the counters are uncomfortably far apart. Remember that bigger is not better -- I have a huge but poorly planned kitchen. My previous house, with its little 10x10-ish kitchen and large pantry was 1000% more efficient. Don't neglect storage -- this kitchen's only storage is in the cabinets; that's the most expensive type of storage.

WIthout having drawn it out on paper, I think I'd make the area that currently holds the refrigerator into a reach-in pantry . . . eliminate the island and make the lower cabinets 30" deep to provide more storage /open up the floor space /bring the cabinets in a little. I'd leave the opening between the living room and the kitchen . . . and place the range on the little penninsula between the kitchen and the breakfast room.

With five kids sharing the upstairs bath, I'd skip the dual sinks. That vanity is small, and with five kids they wouldn't have "their own" sink anyway. I'd go with a single sink . . . and a tall, skinny tower cabinet on one side that'd allow each child his or her own shelf for toiletries. As it is now, you have no storage in the sink area.

I like the exteior. It's definitely my style.

Zone4 - Pocket doors. Do you mean not enough room to open them up? I was thinking of a closet along the stair wall. (Wouldn't go under the stairs as we would have a basement.) Maybe there would just be an opening of 3 or 4 feet? Could that be a pocket door? I hate to make it a swing door because we will be cramped as it is for the school stuff but I really don't like the idea of the school room being the first thing people see coming in. I am NOT organized. LOL

MrsPete - I know the laundry will be tiny. Not my first choice. I dream of a huge laundry room. But I really want the half bath to be near the rear entrance for lots of muddy feet to get in and out of quickly without running through the entire house. Plus if we want to make the half bath into a 3/4 bath we can add a shower in the garage and open that wall up.

I'm hoping for the kids to have a laundry upstairs but if that doesn't happen at least this one would be near the bottom of the stairs and the master bedroom.

Side entry - do you think that door would take up too much space? My other thought was a door into the garage but this just seemed nicer. We are working on the layout of the driveway and where to put the barn.

Great idea on the masterbath! Thanks. :)

I planned to get rid of the garage bump out as well. Forgot to list it here.

I was hoping I could get a closet in the dining along the stair wall. The stairs will go to the basement so it wouldn't be under them. I thought maybe just 4 feet wide x 2feet deep. Running from the foyer to about mid wall. Any wider and it would mess with traffic flow from the other doorway. Again, not my favorite but I would like a closet in there.

I've been trying to figure out the kitchen. Do you think we should just take out the island entirely? Maybe it would be better to move the wall over and give the great room a little more space? I really wanted an island with a prep sink though. I haven't gone through and put in exactly what I wanted in those dimensions. Need to work on that. This is about the best kitchen I've seen in any of the plans I liked. Usually they are so tiny or chopped up.

Yes, there will not be dual sinks upstairs. I like the idea of the tower. I was just thinking more counter space but the tower sounds nice.

We love the exterior. :)

Thanks so much for the input thus far. I appreciate any other thoughts!

Worthy - The 4" walls was what the builders we have talked to said they would do. Is that not possible? I figured it was for savings.

Oh, I see the problem with "not enough room for pocket doors". Look at the floor plan again. An opening that wide requires two pocket doors that meet in the middle. They must have a wall into which they can "disappear". If you're standing in the hallway looking at the dining room, you have the space on the right-hand wall . . . but the left-hand wall looks to be a foot (at most), so the pocket door has nowhere to disappear.

French doors might be your best option.

I haven't followed your other posts, so it may be out there, but is there a reason you feel stuck to a pre-made plan? You can get everything you want, probably, working with a good architect.

I had looked at stock plans for a long time and nothing was quite right. When I gave my wish list to my architect he made it all work, better than I could have envisioned!

I sketched -- sketched being the key word here, as opposed to drawn with great care and planning -- two possible kitchens. In my opinion, both are better than the proposed kitchen. The island is the problem with the proposed kitchen. The kitchen isn't big enough to support it, and it's one of those "I'm gonna have an island at any cost" ideas. It's forcing something that can't work.

I'm not sure whether I can upload both to one response, so I'm going to send two responses.

This one I like best. It removes the dividing wall between the kitchen and the living room, making a more open floor plan -- you may like or dislike that. It gives you a 30" deep island with 42" on the sink side /48" on the pantry side. You could have a small, small overhang with some small stools between the island and the pantry. The island is good-sized: 8'. I'm imagining the dishwasher to the left of the sink /dishes in the cabinets above, and the dishwasher door won't run into the cabinets.

second kitchen possibility:

This plan goes with a time-honored U-shaped kitchen, but it makes the cabinets 30" deep, keeping your steps inside the U compact and giving you loads of storage in the cabinets. I pulled the left wall "in" a bit so that you can have penninsula seating on the living room side -- without cutting intoyour living room space. You do have less pantry with this design. The big problem with this sketch is the placement of the dishwasher. Also, the 30" deep cabinets are expensive, and corner cabinets are expensive.

I like this layout less, but I still like it better than the stock plan.

Consider the table that will go in the dining room. Rectangular tables to seat 8 are usually 6' or 7' long--with 6' being tight. 6' gives you barely any room to walk around the table if people are sitting there, and 7' is too tight. You could always go with a square or circular table, but think about it.

I agree about kitchen problems. Here's an idea. Still not great, I'm afraid, given the huge distance from fridge to sink and island in the way, but this would give you seating and adequate clearances (roughly a 5' long island, 3'8" between range and island, 3' between island and porch wall wall, and 3'6" between island and sink). Take the kitchen over to the kitchen forum, they'd be much better at this.

This post was edited by CamG on Mon, Apr 15, 13 at 9:39

You're right that the table will be tight, but a banquette would fit nicely into that space.

By the way, what the heck is that over the range.... a pass through??

ETA: Yes, the description says a pass through. Who needs a backsplash when you can just vacuum up kitchen splatters from the living room carpet...

This post was edited by CamG on Mon, Apr 15, 13 at 9:43

CamG, Don't forget how much all of us enjoy leaning over a hot stove to hand a plate to someone on the other side of the pass-though! I like the concept of a pass-through, but this particular one -- as the OP recognized from the start -- needs tweaking.

Re: pocket doors

If you look at the size of the opening in the plan, and then the wall between the opening and the stairs, that wall space isn't anywhere near half the size of the opening, so you couldn't put a door that covered half the opening in a pocket in that wall.

If you really want a pocket door there, it will have to be a single door that slides into the wall near the exterior (and I don't know how that would impact insulation in that wall, if it extends into the exterior portion of the wall).

Consider expanding the breakfast area to where the porch is now--I think that would improve the area tremendously. That would make the informal dining room far more useful, allow a well-laid out kitchen, etc. And it shouldn't cost much more, as the foundation and roof are already planned there. Especially if your formal dining room is not tremendously convenient because of spacing issues, that would be nice to have a convenient place for most meals rather than a tiny breakfast area that never gets used with more than 2-3 people.

This post was edited by CamG on Mon, Apr 15, 13 at 10:17

Mrs Pete - I liked your first kitchen as well. What do you think about it being open to the eating area rather than the great room?
Can we mess with the wall to the great room? I thought it would be supporting something upstairs.

Zone4-I see what you are saying about the pocket doors. Man I really want that to be closed off. Would it be terrible to have the door(s) swing out into the foyer?

CamG-We plan to take off the back porch and have a larger nook area. This will be our primary (and only) eating area as I will use the formal "dining" room as our school room.

I have tried to tweak plans but what we are running into is the builder wants to quote off of a stock plan. Well I shouldn't say that exactly. He would be fine with an architect's plan but we don't want to shell out that money if we can't afford to build the plan that is designed. So we are trying to find a plan that is as close to what we want as possible.

Do you want a 2 story GR?

If not, and with 5 kids I wouldn't, I'd find your laundry space upstairs. You could have a sizeable laundry up there. And, then a small laundry for just first floor stuff (master/kitchen towels) where the 1/2 bath is.

You'll need a larger/deeper mudroom if you want the 1/2 bath there, imo.

Great suggestions above for the kitchen.

Kirkhall - yes I know the mudroom is narrow. It's a tight fit. I was just trying to stay within the plan's footprint and not move any exterior walls. Depending on how the kitchen is done maybe we could move the top mudroom wall into that space a bit.(?)

No I don't really care to have a 2 story room but wouldn't it be more expensive to put the ceiling in? I would much prefer 9' ceilings throughout the downstairs and then have possible storage upstairs.

5 kids? Wohoo! We're hoping for a large family, and with an infant and 15 month old we're barely keeping our heads above water, so I'm glad to hear that others have managed...

Okay, thinking about this more, I think you should swap the kitchen and eating area. You don't need kids running through the kitchen to the main meal eating area. And a big problem with your current layout is the short wall that is shared with the living room.

If you did that, you have lots of options. You could put the sink along the back wall, the range on the side wall, the fridge a bit further towards the garage, and then have an island parallel with the side wall. You could even put a little corner walk-in pantry there, or, make part of the garage storage area into a walk-in pantry. You could do something like

Can you make the rest of storage area of the garage part of a larger mudroom? I'm not sure that 6' is not deep enough--we had 6'6" in that plan above and we figured it was room for a bench on one side and cabinets on the other. At least, I'm not sure you would want to either loose depth to the garage or space in the kitchen for a larger mudroom. Making that storage area into conditioned space is not costly at all because it actually decreases the amount of space to insulate.

CamG - Yes the storage area is already figured in to the mudroom space. We are in the midwest and need various coats, jackets, tennis shoes, boots, flip flops so I want a decent sized mudroom.

I thought about switching the kitchen with the eating area but putting the table between the kitchen and great room it cuts the space down. In our current home we have 15' of space for our table BUT it is also a high traffic area that we walk through often. It is not at all working. I thought having the table out of the way of the traffic flow would allow us to utilize the smaller space (14') yet still have room for a large table. Our table is 10' long so when you add chairs really 14' is the smallest we could go. That's in a room where you aren't having to walk by the table to get anywhere.

I don't know how else to work it....sigh.

Kirkhall - I really DO want to get a laundry upstairs. Where do you think it would work out best? I was hoping to keep the possibility of using the bonus space for future if that makes a difference.

Sorry I missed that about the mudroom. That change you envision makes sense.

Re: laundry room, I think you could fit a 5x5' laundry room in the area currently occupied by the right bedroom's walk in closet and the bookshelf at the top of the stairs. You might need to pushing the laundry room wall into the back bedroom 1' and you would need to make the bonus room's storage area into the right bedroom's closet. Does that make sense? You could then put a pocket door on to that room.

CamG - yes that makes sense about the upstairs laundry. I like that it wouldn't affect future access to the bonus space if we would want to do something with it later.

I'd enclose your great room on the second floor, and put another bedroom there. I'd also put the laundry in some of that space or else in the 11x14 space... With 5 kids who shares here? Ages of kids?

I'm thinking you really are asking for more changes to this plan than this "plan" offers for your builder. You might do better to find someone to help you make your changes (if not an architect, then a drafter) to get it on paper for your builder. Or, find a builder with more experience? Are you looking for someone to give you a bid, or an estimate?

Cam, you don't have 5 kids with them 15 months apart. You are asking for lots of long, sleepless nights even with 2 only 15 months apart. ;)

Kirkhall - We have 4 girls and 1 boy. Might have more but who knows? The girls are 10,7,4 and 2. Our son is 8. I am okay with having all 4 girls in one room if it's big enough. If they are split between 2 rooms then we would probably just see how it worked out. It could even change over the years depending on who is getting along better at the time. ;-)

Wouldn't adding another bedroom add lots more to the cost?

As far as the builder goes...we found a builder that was willing to work with us on how much he finishes and so forth to help save on cost. I'm sure I could pick apart most any plan I found. I had it narrowed down to this one and 2 others. Then I did a spreadsheet with all the various things I was looking for in a plan. This plan won. I know I could make things work with some more square footage but we're trying to keep it as small as possible while still getting some of the features we would like. (Isn't everyone?)

it might be a moot point if you're going to create massive changes to the kitchen, but i just wanted to point out that we had a little pass through above our range into the family room in our last house, and it was great--never a problem. i didn't use it to lean over and literally pass anything through. it was simply a window to be part of whatever is happening in the family room (and get an occasional glimpse of the tv too). i'm posting a couple pics in case it's helpful.

Tammy, I also agree with adding a room over the living room. Your builder can probably give you an idea on cost, I just can't believe that some i-trusses, drywall and flooring would cost that much. The question will be whether existing beams can suffice or that would change the structure significantly.

Another problem however is how you enter the new space. You would likely have to make the 10x14 are a kind of loft. Lots of nice space there, but I'm not sure how part of it becomes a laundry room...

With these changes, I think you've got 2 options: have the plan vendor make the changes (looks like they have certain charges, probably fairly pricey) or have your builder "pencil-in" the changes. He may be entirely comfortable with penciling-in changes or not.

Some things don't need to be changed on the plans--the kitchen cabs, for example, will be designed by a cabinet pro and the outlets will be put in by the electrician, both based on your input and not the prints. Probably the same with venting. These questions are for your builder and to see what he is comfortable with.

maggie-Thanks for the pics. I do want some type of pass through for the same reasons you mentioned....to be a part of the happenings. I spend a lot of time in the kitchen.

CamG-Thanks for the input. :)

For an idea of costs, you need to find some people on this forum who have done it, in a fully finished house. (check Kitchen forum too). I know I've seen them. Totally annoyed with the 2 story space, they come in and get a floor/ceiling put in.

In your case, you'd be way better off to plan for that from the beginning and do it from the beginning than needing to remodel it at some future date.

As to cost, it really isn't that big a deal, as you aren't putting in a new bathroom or kitchen (the really expensive things in a house). If you stick with carpeted floors, etc, it should be reasonable. The shell of the house already exists, I think (can't see the back elevation), so it shouldn't be a huge cost layout.