I would not send pictures, I would go have a chat with him in person.....but keep the pics in case you need them later.

On a build like that, you have almost zero leverage to effect any change whatsoever. The only recourse that you have is if it fails inspection. And it won't. Builders like that have the inspectors in their hip pockets. The only other option would be to discuss with your lawyer about terminating the contract and buying somewhere else or doing a custom build.

ditto what lwo said. It's a track home.....the very cheapest(hate to say it) house that are built today. If you really wanted to live in that neighborhood, hire your own inspector.

The builder is sort of right. Don't sent him pictures, meet him at the job site and let him know the problems then he can address them their. I'm building a custom home so I don't know about the spec home thing, but I can say with our home the site supervisor will call us to make sure there doing what we expect.

As a builder, when I've built on my lot from my plans for a specific buyer who has signed a contract and put money down they have the right to enter the property only on a few specified times accompanied by the agent, myself or the project supervisor.

In a tract home (not track) you have as much right to enter and walk around as you do to visit the factory "your" car is being built in.

I know tract supers and this is a persistent problem. People even think they can work on the homes, make changes, bring their buddies over for a beer and a look-see too.

As pointed out by the poster above, a true custom home is another matter entirely.

It's common for natilonal builders to state that the potential owner cannot enter the property except at certain, specified times. They are reducing their legal liability. It's highly likely that you don't own any part of the property at this point, even with a deposit. The builder still owns it.

Often there will be several opportunities for walk throughs with the supervisor or agent. This is the time for your list. You might not like the way the roof was built or the wood that was used, but it must meet some minimum codes based upon your location. I am sure that will be the response you receive. You have very little input as to the way the house is built in a tract home.

Having said that, not all tract homes are poorly built just as not all custom homes are well built. The standards in a typical tract home are lower. If you know that going in and accept it, it will be far less stressful for you.

First houses are always a learning experience for their owners. Owners tend to (rightly) think that the house is the most expensive thing they've every purchased and one of the most exciting times in their lives. Naturally, they want to visit, see and be positively excited about it, through all phases of design and construction.

For tract builders, it's just another day on another house, working 7 AM-4 PM. For tract builders their work is a long, long life-journey with the desire to proceed as expediously and efficiently as possible with construction from one project to the next. Most things in tract housing are based on a company "formula", and that's the goal: meet the "formula". It's all about efficient production. Customer relations are not the first thought by field workers.

The automobile analogy is apt.

Custom builders may have a different approach and attitude for owner relations, since referrals and recommendations are a bigger part of their work lives.

Point being, everyone has to adjust their expectations.

Good luck on your project.

Ive worked as a project manager for a tract builder and now do custom homes. Having built for almost all personalities, in my experience, engineers are by far the most challenging types to work with.

Expectations are everything in this business. The builder probably could have done a better job on the hand off from sales to field. Better to know these things earlier in the process. There isnt too much room for collaboration in the tract build business model but I agree with rrah that sometimes, tract homes can be better built than custom homes. There is a lot more to a home than finishes.

The automobile is not an apt analogy. You have a contract that specifies what the builder will deliver to you and no matter how many of these he builds and how much they look alike, yours will be one of a kind. Also, you are not protected by a 3 or 4 year warranty as you might be with a mass produced product. It's buyer beware from the beginning to the end.

The answer to your question can only be found in your contract. Read it carefully and let us know what is says about who owns what when and what access you have to the house and what forms of quality control and assurance is offered.

It is not unreasonable for you to want such reassurances but since you probably had no opportunity to negotiate the contract you may only have the protections offered by your state so you should investigate that too.

A building inspector may be there to protect the public from harm but that doesn't mean he's there to protect you from getting a poorly built house.

99% of all tract homes in Ontario being built now are no trespassing zones to all non authorized personnel.

Citing liabilities as the main reason but the real reason is lookie loos and homeowners to be. Everyone buying a tract home today thinks they are structural engineers and designers. Back in the old days, 1978, you brought the crew coffee and donuts and you hoped they did a great job, because then I certainly couldn't tell a framing hammer from a ball pean hammer. Hopefully you had a dad or father in law deal with how many jack studs in a window frame.

No internet forums, actually not much of anything but the library, if one had the time.

@Brian Knight
Interesting observation about engineers. What do you think makes working with them challenging?

This post was edited by -henry on Wed, Apr 24, 13 at 21:31

I will say sorry and I know exactly what you are going thru. Tract house or custom, everyone wants to make sure they are getting what they paid for. I hope you did your homework on not only interviewing the builder but also others who have purchased their homes as well. I thought I did mines but I guess it wasn't enough as we still had major problems during out build. We went thru the same problems with our builder and they love to push the liability issue to keep you out of the house. They can say that all they want but unfortunately they aren't on the property 24/7 so if that is something you choose to do that will be a decision you have to make. Unfortunately trying to keep us off the property did not work for me and I was there almost daily with pics to show. I would at times bring food and drinks for the workers and the GC because I figured they might as well get used to seeing my face. Pics did come in handy towards the end when I had to up the corporate latter to explain my point. Visual were very important since the people in the corporate office are not in the field.

I can tell you that it will only help your cause if you become friends with the GC and ask questions instead of being "oh here he comes again" when they see. I was good friends with out GC and got to know our City Inspector as well. One thing I wish would have done was to hire an inspector to view the house in different phases as it is being built and not just at the end. Once the walls are closed up its to late at that point. The only thing is now that you have signed the contract, your bargaining power is all but gone as tract builder contracts are 110% written in favor of the builder.

Good luck with your build and take lots of pics!

Here is a link that might be useful: Our Home Sell/Build Blog

The automobile is not an apt analogy. You have a contract that specifies what the builder will deliver to you and no matter how many of these he builds and how much they look alike, yours will be one of a kind. Also, you are not protected by a 3 or 4 year warranty as you might be with a mass produced product. It's buyer beware from the beginning to the end.

In my jurisdiction, homebuilders must enroll every single home they build in a warranty system that provides a seven year warranty for structural matters, two years for water penetration anywhere and a year for all other matters. Inspection and enforcement is by the Plan administrator. And where the homebuilder fails to comply, the program provides the repair.

There are similar plans elsewhere. And there is always the route of litigation, which I have used myself against trades, contractors and even my own solicitors when they fouled up.

Of course, homebuyers trespass on sites every day. I do, too, from time to time, when assessing potential trade's work or doing mortgage inspections. (It helps to drive a pickup!) But to think this is your right, unless contractually agreed to, is absurd. Indeed, even here there's increasing security. Fenced sites with guards, day and night, are not unusual.

Worthy, the US ain't Canada. Here, you have a 1 year warranty, but good luck getting any warranty work. Tract builds are effectively taillight warranties. Unless you want to sue, and then you can't get blood out of a turnip and just end up with the blood coming from you.

I agree that any warranty from a large tract builder even if required by a state is virtually worthless unless you are a lawyer and have lots of free time. Here in Massachusetts there are many cases of national builders facing class action suits that took many years to resolve.

engineers have exacting expectations.
logical, analyitical minds and expect
others to have same.

theirs is a different perspective from
others.

I find them to be a learning experience
in different areas..tolernace, patience,
tact, and understanding how to best
deal with the numerous questions.

sometimes their pov makes you take
a second look at things..which is a good
thing...imo.

I perfer an engineer anyday to many of the
other types one comes across in the trades.
at least there is some method to their madness..LOL!

that said, I have charged an extra fee for
answering weekly emails with dozens of
questions. this fee isn't limited to engineers..
this a general pita fee for anyone requiring
extra hours of my time. lots of trades people
charge this fee..just aren't as honest about
what it is as I am.

spec & tract builder's have always wanted to keep
homeowners & lookyloos off site. granted there is
liability...but if the house is being built for someone
rather than just for spec..that someone should
be allowed on property. just my pov..I'd never
be happy with a pig in a poke. I want to see and
make sure I'm getting what I'm paying for.

hiring an inspector wouldn't be a bad idea.
then setting up onsite meetings with builder
inspector & ho to discuss any issues would
be the route to best yield results.
hacking off the builder isn't in the best interest
of your build.

there are home inspectors who specialize
in new construcion. ASHI is one source.
I'd be very concerned with holes in the building
envelope.

who owns the lot? will ownership pass to you
when build is complete? or do you own the
property outright?

best of luck.

As to engineers, EnergyRater summed it up better than I can. Its just been my anecdotal experience. An engineer colleague/friend of mine recently built a new home and I cant imagine a better and more laid back person to build with.

As for warranties, the production builder I worked with had an amazing warranty department that would fix many problems well out of warranty. Its certainly not universal but reputation means a lot to tract and production builders. I think the third-party customer satisfaction follow-up ratings had a lot to do with improving that part of the system and process. It was very interesting to hear the warranty departments view on how we were doing things in the field and what needed more attention and improvement.

Thanks for all of the input. Our builder seems to be very "by the book", and said he cannot schedule onsite meetings with me other than the planned meetings before drywall and at close. I will continue to take pictures, and if there are any huge concerns I have I will let my agent handle it. If not, I will just keep a running tally and go over the issues that were not fixed during these walkthroughs.

I do visit the site almost everyday, and typically go after-hours and take tons of pictures. If there are process that I want to watch then I will go during hours, such as when they install the carpet and flooring.

Even though I am having a tract home built, I am impressed with the builder so far. I stopped by last night and could not find a single problem that I thought should be fixed. The builder had also just recently gone through and marked up a bunch of notes in the house, such as walls that needed more studs for support, studs that needed to be better secured, etc. I'm assuming this was the builders notes, as some had to do with design flaws and window placements, but it could have been the inspector.

I will be having a pre-drywall walkthrough with an inspector, as well as the final inspection. I also spoke with homeowners in the neighborhood, and they had nothing but positive things to say about the builder, the quality of the home, and the warranty department. There are only about 50 houses in the neighborhood so far, with plans for almost 400 houses total. That should mean the builder will be there well over the 1 year warranty period, so I should not have any issues with warranty claims.

Thanks again for all of the responses!

during your walk thru, pay careful attention to the
sheathig of the walls. once cladding is installed
the cost of address any issues..well...it just
won't happen.

from inside the house, look for light comming
in from outside.
if light can come thru...so can water & air.
none of which you want in your walls.

understand that builder will work with electrician
insulator,hvac co & other trades on many more
homes than just this one.
all will cya to hide problems beyond the one year
warranty.

ask if you can upgrade recessed lights from IC
to ICAT out of your pocket. this small upcharge
will pay for itself over and over.

best of luck.

I agree with EnergyRater, you should take theses issues into your own hands. While production builders are good at many things, energy efficiency and indoor air quality are largely not among them. Its really more of problem with the building industry as a whole. Production builders can be better than custom builders at these things.

You should personally take up air sealing responsibilities on your own. If possible, do a pre-drywall blower door test and add mechanical ventilation if needed.

If I'm not mistaken, the cladding will be installed before my pre-drywall walkthrough, so I will have to make sure I address any holes or gaps beforehand, correct?

I will gladly take air sealing responsibilities on my own, as long as the builder isn't going to throw a fit. As far as air sealing goes, is the biggest thing just to walk around with some cans of foam insulation and seal any areas with cracks/holes, particularly around the inside sheathing, studs, windows and door frames? The house will have a full house wrap, but I do not know how effective these are.

I will ask about the ICAT recessed lights, as we will have about 20 recessed lights installed. If this is not an option it looks like I can also buy a cover and install myself, but this is more expensive.

Does anybody else have some suggestions on important things I should look for during the build process, or minimal upgrades I should ask for if I were to pay out of pocket? I may end up creating a new thread for this input. Thanks again for the help so far.

PLEASE keep the questions to one thread. it is difficult
enough for all posters to read previous posts...when
you throw multiple threads into the mix we end up
re-covering ground.

you're right...I was thinking of blacked in inspections.
pre insulation, pre cladding. will you get to do a walk
thru at this point??
Iike to inspect before house wrap. as housewrap
covers a lot of stuff. nailing patterns of foam..
solid sheated corners etc. prior to cladding you'll
want to make sure all seams of foam are taped
and any penetrations sealed.

your pre drywall inspection will give you a chance to
see insulation prior to it being covered.
look for voids, insulation settling, and that the insulation
is flat between studs looking down the lenght of the wall.

windows & doors will be installed, so you can see what
was done as far as air sealing & insulating voids around these areas. again...low expansion foam..not insulation shoved into gaps.
personally I like to see windows caulked to frames..

at this pre drywall time, there are other things that
can be addressed. sole plate sealed to slab/subfloor.
SIll Seal is a gasket used prior to walls being stood up,
but you can still caulk sole plates to floors. sheetrock
will cover caulking.
your ductwork should be installed. so take the
time to see that it is all mastic sealed.

bath fans should be in place, with back draft dampers
installed & vented to exterior. you'll want to make sure that the damper is installed correctly & that both damper & venting is secured.

I've asked several times about attic insulation..
and location of ducts. any info forthcomming on this??

the baffle inserts for IC recessed cans are pricy.
and a huge pita to install. do-able...but difficult.
better & more cost effective to install ICAT.
each insert will cost approx $15.00

once sheetrock is installed, this is what I do.
go into attic during the daytime. take a flashlight
so you won't mis-step...but look for light from
living space below. things like cuts at bath fans,
a/c supply boxes are covered inside by covers
& supply registers, these are huge holes
in the air barrier between attic & living space.

thermal bypasses. ANY opening in attic where
you can see into the walls of the house below.
plumbing walls, dropped ceilings, fireplace inserts
and knee walls if you have vaired ceiling heights.
these areas should be sheetrocked air tight
and then insulated.

just as I've recommended sealing sole plates to
slab..you have a potential gap at ceiling to wall
sheetrock...again that gets covered with ceiling
moldings. Ask to have sheetrock installers tape &
float this area as if there were no moldings being
installed. this gap is direct to attic extreme temps.

ideally...seal around all mentioned above, any
penetration of sheetrock into living space below.
this sheetrock ceiling is the air barrier between
you & attic. and we cut lots of holes in it.

best of luck.

energy rater, saw one of your questions before about who owns the lot. Builder owns the lot right now, and will transfer to me at closing. I will not get to do a walkthrough pre-insulation and pre-cladding.

The builder did install the gasket in between the slab and the walls.

So you recommend low expansion foam for window/door frames, caulk for the areas in between sheathing and studs, and taping any seams for the foam/sheathing before the house wrap is installed? As well as low expansion foam for any penetrations of sheetrock into living spaces (around bathroom vent fans, etc)? Or is caulking all areas where studs touch the sheathing not necessary?

Any specific brands I should use of the products mentioned above?

There will be R-38 blown in the attic, and R-15 in the walls. All ducts are located in ceilings. Air handler located in attic, AC unit outside, natural gas furnace in attic.

Any idea if I will anger the builder by air sealing the house by myself after-hours?

The builder did install the gasket in between the slab and the walls.

good. a plus in your favor.

So you recommend low expansion foam for window/door frames, caulk for the areas in between sheathing and studs, and taping any seams for the foam/sheathing before the house wrap is installed?

yes these are my recommendations.

As well as low expansion foam for any penetrations of sheetrock into living spaces (around bathroom vent fans, etc)?

low expansion foam around doors & windows, as high
expansion foam will wrack windows & doors plus void
warranty. usually cut in sheetrock for bath fan is better sealed with Mastic tape. I don't like putting foam near electrical & mastic tape will be an easy long lasting seal.
I use hardcast brand #1402 for this and supply box .
caulk will shrink as it dries and isn't the best product
for this particular area. I'll attach a pic of a mastic tape
sealed supply box. this is something you can diy once you are in the house.

Or is caulking all areas where studs touch the sheathing not necessary?

no, the wonder of sheet goods (sheetrock, plywood etc)
is that they seal great..except on edges and any holes cut into them. with sheetrock on walls the taping & floating makes edges air tight.
did you google Air Tight Drywall Approach (ADA)?
this will give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

Any specific brands I should use of the products mentioned above?

Hardcast brand #1402 mastic tape for supply boxes,
stove vent penetration & bath fan penetrations.
you'll find this tape works well on all types of surfaces
as long as they are clean & dry. well worth the price.

great stuff makes both high expansion & low expansion foams. red can is high expansion..avoid that one.
blue can is low expansion. that is the one.
I'm sure there are other products, I rarely use
foam myself.

There will be R-38 blown in the attic, and R-15 in the walls. All ducts are located in ceilings. Air handler located in attic, AC unit outside, natural gas furnace in attic.

cellulose..like in walls only loose blown for attic?
you really want to do a lot of air sealing at ceiling
with this product. cellulose is a ground newspaper
treated with borate. it has a fine 'dust' that enters
the house through every tiny crack. so do the
best air sealing you possibly can.

ducts in ceiling...be still my beating heart...do
you mean in fur downs and not in attic??
that would be awesome.

what is your location? I don't see it in your
postings.

Any idea if I will anger the builder by air sealing the house by myself after-hours?

probably. that would be a conversation between
the two of you. if you aren't allowed to do the
work during construction..upgrade what you
can ...mastic seal of ducts, IC to ICAT and
we will walk you through the rest.

here is the pic of the sealed supply box to sheetrock.

best of luck.

Awesome, thanks for all of the help again! I live in North Carolina, sorry I didn't mention that before.

I will check out the mastic tape and foam insulation. Would it be acceptable to tape the cracks where each piece of sheathing meets with the mastic tape from inside the house? Assuming I am unable to tape the outside before the house wrap is installed? I checked out the ADA, and that makes a lot of sense. Also, would it be acceptable to use the low expansion foam to fill most areas instead of buying any caulk?

I should have been more specific. Insulation is blown in fiberglass in attic, and I believe fiberglass batts in walls, no cellulose. And sorry to get your hopes up, but ductwork is in th unconditioned attic, no fur downs!

If I'm unable to get the ICAT's, have you considered buying the CREE LED recessed light screw ins that overhang the edges of the installed cans, and sealing that edge with some foam tape or something? May be an option, although a little more expensive than the inserts.

I do not see the pic of the sealed box supply. You may have forgotten to add it. Thanks again energy rater!

Hi Miata,

We are also building a tract home, and it says in our contract that we "shall not do or have any work done on the property", so you might want to check your contract before you do anything to it during construction.

Best of luck to you! :-)

I seem to be confusing two threads...sorry about that!

Would it be acceptable to tape the cracks where each piece of sheathing meets with the mastic tape from inside the house?

mastic tape isn't for sheathing, but to seal @ supply box & bath vent fan cuts in sheetrock to supply box & bath fan housing. too expensive to use for sheathing tape.
here is a step by step guide using foil tape, but there are other tapes..3M makes a all weather tape, tyvek makes a tape...most important is clean dry surfaces
& squeegee to seal

http://www.ehow.com/how_12130674_taping-seams-foam-board-insulation.html

I'd use foam as little as possible. good around windows
& doors but caulk for all other sealing.
if gap is large use a backer rod inserted into gap
and caulk both sides of backer rod to both sides of
gap. once it dries for 24 hours check to make sure caulk
hasn't shrunk as it dried. caulk makes a flexible seal that will expand and contract, thus the long life.

I'm not a fan of foam in a can because there is so little
control over where it goes prior to expanding. I've seen
huge air leaks when foam/can is used. the caulk gives
you better control of where it goes & how it seals.

you'll have to work with builder to see what he will
allow you to do. if your doing it isn't acceptable
maybe hiring one of his crew to do the additional
air sealig would be an option??

yeah ducts in furdowns is a dream of mine for
everyone!
I much perfer fg to cellulose in attic for the reasons
listed in my post.
still with fg you still want to seal the air barrier between
the living space & the attic.
when insulation is on the attic floor this becomes both
air & thermal barrier. so eliminating any air movement through the insulation allows it to perform as rated.
invest in load calc for properly sized hvac system,
and make them use mastics to seal ducts and not
foil or duct taped.

recessed lights.. here is another link to installing the
inserts to make IC air tight.
http://specialtycomfort.com/newsletters/april_10.html#3

I'm not sure what the Cree Led is supposed to do..
but you have to be careful in sealing recessed lights
thus the inserts which I believe are the safest way to seal them from inside the house.

for some reason when I attach the pic..and click preview..the image doesn't attach..will try it again.

Thanks Energy Rater. I checked with builder and they use spray foam insulation around windows and doors, but I'm not sure if they do any caulking to seal the rest of the house. The most important area I saw that needs to be caulked is the second floor, right where the subfloor and studs/sheathing meet. I can see light coming out of here, so hopefully I can get that sealed.

The builder said that they use ICAT recessed lights, which I am very happy about. I will have a total of 22 recessed lights in this house, which seems like a ton! They will all be on seperate switches luckily, with anywhere from 1-4 being controlled by a light switch. I'll just make sure I change these all out to CFL's as soon as I move in.

HVAC guy started installing ductwork and furnace/air handler this weekend. So far, it looks like he did a good job. He secured ductwork to the supply box with a heavy duty ziptie, then taped around edges of ductwork to supply box with a black tape that looks somewhat like ductape. He then used mastic to seal the supply box. Overall it looks like a good job, and I will be sure to use mastic tape to seal the supply box to the drywall when installed.

There is no exterior foam insulation board being used on the house, so if I were to seal any cracks with 3M or Tyvek tape it would be from the inside of the house, directly on the sheetrock.

In NC, I believe the HVAC contractor must perform a load calc prior to installing the unit. The house model I am having built gets a 4 ton Lennox AC unit with 2 zones installed for a 2600 sq ft. 1.5 story house.

Thanks for the help so far! If the builder doesn't allow me to seal the house myself I will see if I can hire his insulation guy to do it. I will also see if he can blow in fiberglass insulation in the attic to about R-50 or R-60 instead of just R-38.