1. My former Miele Optima did not accommodate my dishes all that well. I have thick Pfalzgraff plates, and I had to space them using every-other row of tines. My cereal bowls fit OK, but I have some wide, not-so-deep pasta bowls that didn't fit well anywhere.

3. My current KA KUDE60 has the power scrub in the back and I'm not really impressed. I've used it on casserole dishes with baked-on residue, and it hasn't cleaned any differently than just placing the dish in the bottom rack. Overall, I think it cleans this type of dish fairly well, but I don't see any advantage to the power scrub feature. The Miele Optima did just as well if not better.

1.Deep is not so much the problem as is thick. Euro DW's like Miele have closely spaced tines that don't handle thick pottery type or earthenware dishes well. Best to take a few to the dealer and see if it works for you. The optional racks that appear in the higher models aren't drastically different, the real difference is more adjustability for glasses, stemware, fold flat tines ect... Racks are about $200 from parts dept.

2. In a nutshell - moving up the range gets you a water softener, more programs like cheese, ect..., the aformentioned racks, more insulation for a quieter ride, and at the very top - auto close.

3.fridge commented on it already but maybe Miele's base design is better so that it doesn't require a special dohicky for really dirty stuff.

At the end of the day most DW's will clean adequately if given enough time, soap, and hot water , and provided you load properly. Nothing is going to clean baked on lasagna form the pan if you place it over two salad bowls and block the unit's spray arms from delivering water to it.

1) take your dishes to the showroom and try them. Loading my miele required a bit of a learning curve. The only things that won't fit in the DW are the oven drip pans, and the bottom gate for my franke orca sink. The tines are place close together which may be an issue for thick stoneware - the only way to know is to try and see.
2) antss is right - I went up the chain for better noise reduction
3) I have an upper level miele - split cutlery tray, cheese cycle, china cycle etc. 99% of the time use the normal wash, with no real pre rinse, with great success. Occasionally I will use the pot cycle or china cycle. Cleans very well. Occasionally use the split cutlery rack to allow tall item on one side and still clean silverware on the other. Love the cutlery rack, the adjustable upper rack, the quiet running of my miele, and the fact that in 1 1/2 years I have had to rewash no more than a handful of items, really.

Not sure what everyone's problem with Miele racks is - I find their lower rack in their high-end DWs amongst the best-designed of anyone's - very adjustable and can be made to hold plates, bowls, cookware, or glasses, with lots of adjustable and/or removable parts, plus the aforementioned optional accessories. My only issue with Miele dishwashers (besides the price) is that they're sized for European cabinetry and thus the racks are about 2" shorter front to back than most American or Korean brands. But this is often an advantage if you want a full-integrated dishwasher that looks like another cabinet door, and you don't want the dishwasher to stick out beyond the rest of the cabinets.

1) If you are worried about things not fitting, I would suggest (like others have) to take some dishes (and whatever else) to a store that has the Miele on display and see how they fit.

2) You can look at the back comparison chart on the Brochure PDF to see all the differences between the models. We ended up going with the Diamante Plus G2143SC ($1399). It had all the features that we wanted, adjustable racks, water softener, delay start. The next model up from that is the Optima G2432SC and was $300 more ($1699). The main difference with it is the Optima has a split cutlery rack where half can be removed, and some extra sensors for water turbidity and temperature, but all the wash programs are the same. So we decided not to get the Optima since it was $300 more and was 98% the same unit as the Diamante. From there you go to the Excella and La Perla, both of which have even more wash programs (such as plastics, cheese, and heavy starch), even more sensors, and on the La Perla the door will automatically close when you start to shut it, and it will open at the end of the cycle to help with drying. Keep in mind the Excella goes for about $2000 and the La Perla is about $2300.

http://www.mieleusa.com/pdf/brochures/2009_01_G2002_Dishwashers.pdf

Also, each level you go up the units are rated to be quieter. Q1 to Q5 in the US, which I think on the UK site they are listed from about 46dB to 38dB. I heard the Optima in the showroom, that is rated Q3 42dB, but it doesn't sound any quieter than the Diamante I have installed here (rated at Q2 44dB). You would probably have to put your ear right on the unit to maybe hear a difference between the models. But at a few feet away, they sound pretty similar...quiet.

3) I find that pot-scrubber on the KA/Whirlpool units to be more of a gimmick. If they worked so good, then why aren't they used by Miele or Bosch? So far in the month that I've owned the Miele, I haven't had 1 thing come out dirty.

Thanks everyone! The Miele it is, and probably - gasp - the La Perla (top of the line). Only because if indeed it will clean the best (cheese cycle), I'll do whatever I can to get the best - in this regard!! I also want fully integrated so that pushed me further into that corner...

I said this in another thread, but most people (even at Miele) feel that all those extra cleaning cycles really aren't needed. I highly doubt that the La Perla will clean any better than my Diamante. Since we do (real) cooking, I use the Pots & Pans cycle 90% of the time. Everything has always come out clean. We have done Lasagna in a glass rectangle casserole baking dish, and there's always baked-on sauce and cheese. It has come out perfectly clean. The extra $1K that the La Perla cost over mine is basically paying for some extra sensors, the auto close, drying door open, and the "La Perla" status.

We have the Miele Optima and are very pleased. It has been a challange to learn to load the dishwsher. After two months it is getting better, but I think we still have som learning to go.

Our old dishwasher made things clean, but this one makes them "sparkle." I love the quiet. If I listen really hard I can tell it is running, but I have to try. Normal converstaion, light music in the kitchen, all drown out the sound.

I use the delay start. And 99% of the time the Normal Wash. We do put it on Turbo Wash when we are in a hurry.

DH likes we were able to plumb it to cold water. Cycle takes a little longer that way, but we are usually washing after dinner so it does not matter.

fauguy - Yes I keep reading that the cheese & starch option isn't noticeably better and noticeably is noticeably you know? Frankly, what turned me off even more than the price difference was the less-intuitive control panel of the fully integrated model. On the Optima - which was my second choice but is becoming my first choice - you can see each of the 6 cycle options on top (they each have their own buttons or something easy like that) and that is mighty preferable to me. Also because my mom and other family members/friends may occasionally go to turn on the machine and get all flustered by having to use a menu. Another factor is that when I talked to the Miele people - just like you said - they seemed to think the La Perla was kinda sorta ridiculous. That's so funny! I love that; it's so refreshing. They also explained to me the Rinse & Hold option which I hadn't read closely enough before. I like that you can put messy dishes in and press that button but not have to fill the whole machine up (that it just essentially soaks them). That process will probably ensure that on the pots and pans setting, all will come out clean if they wouldn't have otherwise.

What's funny is that if it weren't for the menu on the control panel, I would have been willing to spend the $500 extra - also cause I like the way the door opens on its own to help dishes dry more quickly (and for better racks). But I'm glad not to have to spend it, too. :)

dcwesley - as I said above, I think the Optima is the one we'll go for. Thanks for sharing your experience w/ it. I wish you had a better experience w/ the racks but hopefully someday they'll improve them for all of us and we can upgrade the racks at that time (?).

I'm having a hard time deciding which would be better to plumb to - hot or cold water. I guess cold water makes more sense when you have a larger family (5 in our case) who are likely to take more showers and likely to run out of hot water too often if a dishwasher's added to the mix (remember - we haven't had a dishwasher since 1995)! I don't like that it will take longer but then I wonder exactly how much longer it takes to get that cold water heated up enough, you know?

And here's another good question: if I'll be using the Rinse & Hold option quite often, does that mean dishes will be rinsed in cold water each time? Or does it mean the machine has to heat up that water each and every time we hit the rinse & hold button (which would be often)? It seems it would be a bigger waste of electricity. Would love to get a better sense of the pros & cons you know?

Thanks!!

theresse,

I was torn between the Diamante and Optima, but I decided to go with the Diamante since it was $300 less. The only differences between the two was a few dB in sound (that I couldn't even hear in the showroom), some extra sensors for turbidity, and the removable cutlery rack. To me, those "extras" wasn't really worth the extra $300 in price. As I've said, everything has come out clean, and not once in the 6 weeks of using the Diamante have I said to myself "I should have spent the extra $300 for the Optima".

For the Rinse & Hold, that is if you put stuff in the dishwasher after breakfast, and they are going to sit there all day until that night when you run the dishwasher after dinner. You can do the Rinse & Hold to wet everything down. But I've never had to use it. I have stuff in there from Breakfast, Lunch (sometimes), and dinner, and just run it at night. Remember, the Rinse & Hold only sprays water for 5 minutes and the drains.

I have the Diamante connected to the hot water (as that is how the pipes are made here) but each time it fills, it only fills with 1 gallon of water. So for the "Normal" cycle it does 2 pre-washes (15min each), main wash 60min (detergent door opens), and final rinse, so that = 4 gallons. With the Pots & Pans (which I use most of the time) it does 1 pre wash, main wash for 60 min (detergent door opens), interim rinse, and final rinse = 4 gallon. Both Normal and Pots & Pans runs for 2 hours, but only with the Pots & Pans do you get a full 60 wash with detergent. When using the Normal program, there are two 15min pre washed, and then a 30 min wash with detergent. So I don't think if you have it connected to the hot water would be a problem, as it uses no more than 4-5 gallons per program. If you connect it to the cold water line, the run times are longer, as it has to heat the water it self.

Thanks fauguy - that description was really helpful! FYI at first you said 60 min. for the normal cycle but it was corrected at the end. ;)

I just started YET ANOTHER thread about comparing the different Miele DW w/ regard to how well dishes are dried. The La Perla (and Excella which I won't get due to no fully integrated option) both have two air pathways in their drying and then the door opens after which helps dry things even faster. The Optima which is my second choice has only one air pathway and the door doesn't open. Not sure any of that matters though...