A cleanout is a cleanout. It's not there to add a sink to. You NEED a plumber to look at other options and give you his professional opinion. And YES, you need a permit. If it's not done correctly and with a permit, it doesn't add any value to the home. It actually detracts value to the home when it has to be ripped out and the fine paid because it wasn't done correctly and with a permit.

I am a plumber and I am telling you, if you do it in the manner I described you will be fine, and you do not need a permit.

Careful with the advice of lazypup. Where I live you certainly need a permit for this. And... air admittance values (though they are great and local plumbers will bootleg them in) are not legal.

The toilet toppers require no permit, and work fine, but keep in mind you get cold water. Depending on how lazy the appraiser is they may count that as completing the 1/2 bath.

I don't know where brycinesbitt is from and don't really care but I do know this... There are two national model codes in the U.S., from which the individual state codes are derived.

The International Code allows an unlimited number of AAV's

The Uniform Plumbing Code allows a Maximum of one AAV per structure.

And there is no permit required because the installation as I outlined it does not alter or modify the configuration of the original layout.

Now if you care to continue arguing, kindly tell us where you live and I will be happy to look it up in your code and give you the code references.

i only skimmed the long advice post earlier in this thread, so act as though I didn't even read it. My subject here is the advice of any person appearing to be highly competent.

there is never any specific "right" thread to post this, so here goes: I have previously spotted mistakes in lazypup's advice, and he refuses to respond to it with a simple "oh, golly, yes". Someone who never allows himself to make a mistake is someone whose advice is to be taken as merely one good source among many.

Any internet friend posting answers is merely one good source among many.

My post here does not discuss the specific advice contained in lazypup's long post above. I think it's great to see so much description, and to see lazypup helping so many people. Thank you lazypup!

Yea,,,well you can all kiss my advice goodbye

I actually did spend 4 years completing the apprenticeship and worked almost 30 years as a commercial & residential plumber with a company that operated in 11 states, yet everyday I try to share my expertise only to have hackers, wannabees and DIY'ers challenge everything I say...Well I officially retired from plumbing 5 years ago,,,and today I am retiring from trying to help ppl free....if you want advice from a real plumber your just gonna have to pay for it, or you can take your chances with the ppl on these forums who are not plumbers and probably don't even personally know a plumber.

There is one thing that I have noticed from these forums..Whenever a question comes up that actually requires knowledge of the codes nobody wants to go out on a limb and try to answer it, in fact, many times when a question was posted that only required fundamental knowledge of the codes I purposely refrained from answering for a couple days to allow others an opportunity,,,but they don't step up. Well they better step up now because I am done.

Lazy pup,

Sorry that you have gotten anything but thanks for your help over the years here. It is a rare problem that has a single answer- even under the silly Masonic shroud that tradespeople wave like a medieval sword: "It's Code!!! And No One But Those Admitted To Our Holy Order Could Possibly Understand!!!"

This is not say that uninformed or under-informed people don't do loads and loads of stupid sometimes dangerous stuff; they do. What I object to, something that happens so often in these and other forums, is that people forget that advise should be offered in a friendly and constructive manner. Based on your posting demeanor, "constructive" is the manner in which I believe you offer your expertise and advise.

Sadly, the spirit of "constructive" (ironically in a construction forum) is thrown aside so that experts can engage in a measuring contest. Again, there always more ways than one to solve problems; despite obvious expertise, people demean the cooperative element of forums and the obvious benefits of crowd sourcing to prove they are the only ones with divine knowledge of "The Code!!!". This behavior seems no more constructive than men lining up with a ruler in the locker room to prove who is the smartest.

Thanks for the generous spirit with which you engaged. Sorry to have lost your help.

Thanks lazypup for this writeup, super helpful with a project I am trying to complete!