I'm sorry jjaazzy I'm sure you mean well but dying hair on ANY stone is going to ruin it. And that's something someone in the tile industry really should have known they should not do. They apparently also didn't take the standard recommended care that avoids the other issues you say they have had either.

I know several people who have had their slate showers for years with out a hitch because they followed the recommended care needed to maintain it. Yes, I would discourage anyone from using slate if they weren't prepared to take proper care of it, but if someone loves the look and feels they can manage the maintenance required, they should go for it.

Some things to be considered:

- Avoid Dyes. It's common sense that you shouldn't dye hair around stone of any kind because dye stains.

- Don't use standard soap, it causes soap scum. However, soap scum is a problem with all shower materials not just stone. Liquid soap or body washes don't leave soap scum and although they have typically been popular with women, recently, manufactures now started to offer body washes for men also.

- Slate, is absorbent and needs to be properly sealed. Like all stone in a shower it should be sealed with several coats and this should be done every 6 months religiously. Also, don't skimp on the sealer. Buy a sealer that is recommended by the professionals regardless of cost.

Something else we do because our water is very hard, is wipe off the water from the chair railing around the wall feature and niche, the bench, glass doors and fixtures as well. Takes two minutes and saves the hard work of cleaning hardwater build up.

I'm not a tile professional, just an end user with a slate bathroom. During our remodel, I was advised by both Bill and Mongo to consider a tile look alike because slate is very absorbent. I can definately understand concerns with that issue, we still opted for the real McCoy because we love the look. Even though we still chose to use the slate I tried to educate myself (and am still open for suggestions) of the best way to care for it but have no regrets about the installation.

I'm with luckiirish, I love slate. But you do need to be aware of what you're getting into with a wet area installation.

Realize that some of the inexpensive slates are more shale-like than slate. Balance a piece on your fingers and tap it with a metal trowel, with a solid-grained piece you'll get a nice "ring", with a shale-like, sedimentary piece you'll get a dull "thud".

The shale-like pieces are very sedimentary in nature, the pieces don't have a cohesive stone structure. It's more like 50 pieces of thin paper stuck together. Over time, the "pieces of paper" or layers will shed.

The "shale" pieces, if you soak them in water and rub them, you can get dirt and more dirt.

So there's just a note of caution that I'll throw out there for those interested.

Honed slate is consistently a better product than many of the natural cleft slates, the added machining demands that it be. There are still good natural cleft slates out there. You just have to check 'em out.

Thanks Mongo, you or Bill had mentioned soaking the slate when I was researching it, and I did that. The results with our slate were good. I was still skeptical when we got it cause it was horrific in the box. Half of the tiles were broke in half, chipped or cracked so I was worried, but we inspected each tile and took care to use only the better ones. The store let us exchange full boxes for new ones or a credit and we've not had any peeling whatsoever. Thnak you so much for all the information you posted, it was a great help!

Thank you ALL for all of your info.. I am still very much interested in installing slate.. funny my tile guy tried to veer me away from it as well. It's funny, b/c as high maintenance as everyone is saying it is, I am surprised that a hotel would have it in their bath, but that was my original inspiration an d I will not be happy if i don't do it.. The house is almost done being framed so i need to make my decisions soon.. Slate in the master it is!! (and thank you again Lukkiirish for your pics!!!).. I can't wait.. (not to mention i saw a master on HGTV tonight that had it and it brought a smile to my face!!!!

I understand completely gilly! It brings a smile to our faces every day too! Good luck, and please share pictures after the install.

gillylily, do you think that the tile at the hotel could have been a porcelain slate lookalike?
My husband dearly loves slate too and even tho he's in no hurry to remodel his bathroom (we did mine in 07) he wants slate when we do remodel it. I'm not up to maintaining it like I know natural stone needs and deserves. As much as I adore travertine, I chose a porcelain travertine lookalike in my bath for the ease of maintenance. Not getting any younger and with MS and a bad back, I'm looking to make things easier not harder :) Hoping we can find a porcelain that looks enough like slate that he's happy with.
Monica

Did you contact the hotel and ask them what kind of tile they actually used in the bathroom? I had like the towel bars and shower hooks and when I wrote to them, they got back to me with the information. It saved me a lot of time and guessing.

Take a look at the porcelain slate look-a-likes too.

Tile has come a long way over the past few years, if you can find a look in porcelain that you like, it'll be a lot easier than real stone in all aspects; less waste, easier installation, faster installation, better layout, better performance in wet areas, less maintenance, longer life.

Here are a few from DAL. This is DAL's Indian Summer:

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And below, DAL's Calais Springs.

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Both are from the Villa Valleta line.

But boy, do I still love natural stone.

Those Dal tiles are nice, we considered using them for about 30 seconds. :c)

IMHO the difference is like comparing laminate flooring to true hardwood floors. Personally, I like the real stuff.

Ok.. definitely doing slate.. I went to the tile store AGAIN (this was the 3rd time in a week) and picked out the Indian Autumn Slate Pietra Art 11 by Florida Tile.. Is this a good brand/ type of slate????

Here is a link that might be useful: Florida Tile Pietra Art 11 Indian Autumn Slate

I am still very much interested in installing slate.. funny my tile guy tried to veer me away from it as well. It's funny, b/c as high maintenance as everyone is saying it is, I am surprised that a hotel would have it in their bath,

Keep in mind they have full maintenance staffs to take care of those bathrooms, too. That said, if I liked slate that much, the maintenance wouldn't scare me away from it. The two biggest things you have to remember is to keep it sealed, and use a ph neutral cleaner on it, only when a cleaner is necessary. For most cleaning, hot water should be fine, once it's sealed.

Bill, thank you for those pictures..Every time I see a slate shower it makes me smile so I think that is what i need to go with.. Are you familiar with the Florida Tiles, Pietra Art II Slate. Also do you happen to know what color slate the above bathroom is? It is beautiful!

Gilly, ask the store for a sample, take it home and run the soak test that Mongo talks about earlier in the thread. If it doesn't fall apart that's a good clue to it's quality.

It's Asian slate. As for Florida Tile's offering, no, I'm not familiar with it. Me and Florida Tile don't mix. :-)

JUst and FYI.. I did contact the four seasons in Hawaii and they gave me all the info. on the bath.. Clearly pricier quality than I will be using but this is what they said

"Aloha Mrs. Gordon,

I have a bit more information that I have collected via our engineering
department.

Rustic Yellow Slate color 6" x 6" x 1/2" thick tiles

Mira Matte top finish or equivalent.

Grout: Custom color to match stone.

Provide with penetrating sealer, porous plus,or equivalent, to prevent
staining from water, dirt, and oils.

If I may be of further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Warm Aloha,
Kahula Kahikina
Reservations Sales Agent
Four Seasons Resort Hualalai"

Hows that for service??? I haven't seen Yellow River anywhere so i might be an island exclusive.. But Bill/Mongo how about the sealant etc. they talked about?

Unless you have an extremely porous slate, Porous plu would be a waste of money. The 511 Impregnator, also made by Miracle, will do just as good a job for half the price.

Following this thread closely and starting to go back to considering real slate for our master bath. It started when my contractor said, "why not just use slate?" Well, if he's comfortable with the installation, I think I'd be in good hands on that one. Then I go to a tile store to look at porcelain slate look-alikes, and the rep there asks, "why not real slate?" (there's that question again!) We discussed maintenance, and she insisted that if you got a good slate, and used a good (= expensive, $100/bottle) penetrating sealer, you would not have to seal often. (She actually said, "only once," but I do not believe that! not in a shower....right?) She has it in her bathroom, and she says she does not wipe it down after a shower, and doesn't have any more maintenance than any other surface.

Looking at the photos here, and your bathroom in particular Lukiirish, I am asking myself, "why not real slate?"; and when it's hair-dyeing time, there's always the kids' bathroom ;-)

I will get some samples as suggested above, run them through the tests. Do most people use an enhancing sealer? The Tile Shop has a display with half enhanced, half matte sealer -- very hard to imagine in our bathroom. Enhanced is beautiful in the large, bright showroom; overwhelming in a 4 x 3 shower?

I just wanted to throw in that we used some New England (Maine and Vermont) quarried slate from Sheldon Slate for our mudroom floor and woodstove hearth wall. I found the quality of the stone to be vastly superior to the Home Depot stuff I looked at. There were only like 2 pieces in the whole lot with any sort of flaking. I have not had any flake off since it has been installed. I sealed it with a natural stone sealer from Lowes.

I'm not sure they have that super-varied type you guys are talking about, though. The colors seemed more uniform (which is what I was looking for). But it's beautiful stuff!!!

It's been a while since I posted about the slate bathroom. we are just about ready to have the bathroom tiled. I have had a lot going on with the build so I pretty much put the slate aside and just got around to doing the soak test this evening. So the tile we were going to use was Florida Tile Indian Summer or African Gold. I ran the soak test and the tile didn't come apart. HOWEVER... the coloring came off on my hand.. Of course it is not sealed or anything, just a sample but is this something I should be worried about? Or will the sealing and all the other stuff prevent that from happening?
Thanks for your help!

Just a "friendly" bump to see if I can get any thoughts....

The coloring of the TILE???? And, ummmmmm..... this is something you intend to use in a shower??? where it'll get wet constantly???

This is all putting aside that tile glaze shouldn't lose its color anyway...

I love Florida Tile. It's right up at the top of my favorites list-- right next to an infected root canal.

LOL @ Bill/root canal analogy! When we first purchased our slate for the shower, I took each tile, rinsed it off, layed out the pattern on the livingroom floor, discarded the "ewwwww, that's ugly" tiles, and handed each tile to my contractor to install. Yes, I drove the poor man nuts, but the tile layout is exactly how I wanted. Having said that, I would have returned the entire 125 sq/ft of tile if the colour had washed off/out!!! Yes the tile were dirty/dusty... but I've yet to see a rock I can wash the colour out of! Step back.. step away.. run!! Well, at least to a better source of slate!

We've had our shower installed for nearly a year now, with not a single problem with the slate shaling/peeling/whatever you want to call it. I do have a slight issue that I need to ask Bill about in regards to cleaning a slight build up of hardwater (no it's not bar soap scum), before I reseal the tile. So Bill.. what can I clean hardwater/calcium build up off of slate? It's sealed/colour enhanced (twice now)

Ok.. I am starting to get it.. I know the tile vendor had a bunch of other brands of slate in his store.. Could you recommend a specific reputable company/brand I should look for? I have to look asap If i want to stick with slate as the walls are going up by wed. for my house and the tile is the next step (for the bathrooms)..

Any recommendations?

Thanks for your input..

My misunderstanding-- I thought in your last post, you meant that you'd "set the slate aside", as in decided on using something else, and were talking about a glazed tile. I don't care for Florida Tile as a manufacturer (just in case ya couldn't tell), but with reference to their slate, they're just brokering for a quarry. You WILL find with the softer slates that some color will come off when you're working with them. That stops pretty much just after installation.

Bill- do you dislike Florida Tile b/c of customer service issues or for quality purposes? do you think I should look at other brands slate? i was confused as to what you were saying in terms of the coloring coming off. Once it is installed and sealed that will stop? thanks again for all of your help and input!

do you dislike Florida Tile b/c of customer service issues or for quality purposes?

Both-- bigtime. But that's their own ceramic lines. This is natural stone, and it's tough to screw that up, especially slate.

do you think I should look at other brands slate?

If you're satisfied with what you've seen, then by all means, go with it. I WILL say this though-- just a couple of months ago, I did an entire living space floor-- the entire house, plus the kitchen backsplash, master shower, and entire fireplace with the same kind of slate you're talking about from Lowes, and was very impressed with the stone. Usually the Asian and Indian slates are pretty absorbent, have the same kind of coloring issues you spoke of, as well as alot of shaling (flaking). Not this stuff. Not as much as usual, anyway-- for this kind of slate. and the price was right, too. I mean, we bought just over 1500 feet and paid 1.75 a foot. But at Lowes, I pay the same price as everyone else, and depending on the footage you're getting you might be able to strike a deal as well. Even if you're not getting alot of footage, they've still got good prices on their slate.

i was confused as to what you were saying in terms of the coloring coming off. Once it is installed and sealed that will stop?

Yes.

Slate can be an absolutely beautiful material. Certainly beware of the cheaper products. Not to Hammer HD, but some of the stuff I saw there would fall apart if put in a bucket of water for a few hours....

Having said that, a Ferrari is a wonderful automobile....but it does require a tad more maintenance than a Honda.

Slate showers need to be sealed regularly and ought to be wiped down dry after use...(actually ANY shower will last forever if you do this).

As was mentioned before, eschew the bar soap! Use only liquid soap in this (or any) shower. Bar soap uses animal fat as a "binder," thus the soap scum problem. I think "Dove" is about the only exception to this rule.

As I think Bill mentioned, a porcelean "slate-look" tile is generally more user-friendly and desirable.....but, hey....whatever floats your (and you maid's) boat!

Thanks for the info. I will check out the other brands (aside from Florida Tile) and see how they compare. Thanks again for all of your help Bill!!

Lazarususa- I know about all the maintenance and the "maid" (that is me by the way) is ready to take care of it.

I can't wait to post pics. of my new beautiful slate bathroom! Thanks all for your help!!

Wouldn't the issues with slate like the layers flaking off, softness and porosity issues be avoided by using quartzite tile instead? It has the same look, and I think is much harder. Isn't engineered stone made from quartzite. It says it's 97% quartz material but isn't that quartzite?

I don't quite know what it is, but there IS a difference between quartzite and quartz, but yes, quartz is about as hard a material as you'll find-- even harder than AB granite. And yes, all those issues would be resolved, but it would be a much different looking stone. Like going from polished marble to flamed granite.

Just wanted to update on my slate bathroom.. these pictures were all taken from a blackberry so take it for what it's worth... They are going to finish sealing and grouting tomorrow... I am going to seal it one more time before we move in just to be cautious!!

But here they are:
have a better picture but can't find it where shower stall meets floor

Shower walls (w/out shelf)

Tub and surround

The floor

I wasn't there during install, wish I had put in a little of my advice in terms of placement of the different colors so they were more evenly spread out but as my DH keeps telling me: I didn't tell them to so I can't complain.. What do you think?

I have just found this blog, never done this before, but am so happy to find all you helpful, DIY's and " time to hire someone" people. I had a lot of questions about tile, granite and bathrooms, and they are answered now. I'll stay tuned to learn more. Maybe post pics of my own one day.

Gilly-- First off, I think it looks great. Secondly, it's probably a good thing you WEREN'T there, because I have a feeling it wouldn't have looked any better than it does right now, and you would've ended up with a strained relationship with your installer, because I'll tell you right now-- for every place you see right now that you'd liked to have changed, there are another ten that you don't see, but would've been just as adamant when it was going in. I know what I'm talking about, because I just did an entire home with that same stone last july-- 1400 feet, including the shower, kitchen backsplash, and entire fireplace. So long as several cartons are mixed together prior to installation, it's best just to lay it as it comes out of the stack, because otherwise, it tends to take on a pattern, if you never have the same color together, or whatever your requirement might be. Trust me when I tell you-- once it all gets grouted, you're going to be impressed with it. About the only place I might have something to say is in the shower. It looks like he could've mixed the tiles a little better.

Auntyg-- Welcome to the forum!! Whatever you need to know-- ask away! That's what we're here for!

Thanks Bill- That is what I thought as well, but oh well.. its in and I will look past that spot (even though it greets you when you first come in...) but again, i wasn't there, I didn't ask them to do that, I have to take responsibility for it.. Here is the picture I mentioned above that I didn't include.. just for the heck of it.

where the shower meets the floor (and a small glimpse of our bench).

and as Bill said, welcome auntyg!! People like Bill and Mongo and a ton of others are great experts on this stuff and are SOOO helpful!

I'd ask him to change three tiles, regardless of whether you were there or not-- the one just to the left of the shower valve, and then on the other wall, the center tile on both "sets of three" light tiles in the picture. Change those three tiles, and it'd make a world of difference.

One other thing-- you might want to check the cover plate to the shower valve to make sure it'll cover the corners of that square cut.

Gilly, it's looking good. As Bill said, once it's grouted and sealed it will look even better. I would highly recommend more than just one more sealing. We did 5 coats total in the shower, on the floor we did 2. Are you going to enhance the stone or leave it sealed in its natural state?

Thanks Bill for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I saw your recommendation a little too late this am..Had to bring my kiddo to the dr. this am -luckily nothing serious, but stopped by the house afterwards and they had already grouted the shower. Oh well. I still love it and like you said it does look much better grouted and sealed. i didn't take any pictures yet b/c my girls were waiting in the car while I ran in..
Lukki- thank you too. so you think I should seal it 2-3 more times? What exactly does the sealing require time wise? We are not moving in for about a week after we close so I will attempt to do it then while the kids are back in school. Do you think I need to seal EVERYTHING floor, shower and tub surround? or just shower or shower and tub surround???
Thanks again for your help!

I'd still check the cover plate for the shower valve to make sure it covers completely. That square cutout's pretty big.

I definitely will.. Do I check that once the shower valve is installed to make sure it is completely covered so as to not get water in between the surfaces? Once my DH gets home from work I will be heading over to the house again this afternoon.. As always thank you for your expertise. I know I asked you this before, but we live south of Boston in Canton.. We plan to add a basement full bath with the next year so I may be contacting you for a recommendation if you don't come down this far!!!

Whenever you're ready-- I have a name for you.

As for the face plate, you can check it right now. Simply hold the face plate up over the valve, centering it in the hole, and check to make sure it'll completely cover the cutout. Better to check it now, than when the plumber comes in to put it all together. Alot of plumbers will put together regardless, and then charge you to come back, take it apart so the tile guy can fix it, and then put it back together again, and although it should be the tile guy's problem if it comes down to that, it'll save alot of grief just to get ahead of the problem in the first place.

Gilly, we don't have a tub, so I can only speak for our shower and floor, but basically anything that is going to be subjected to a lot of water you want to seal several times. If I remember correctly, it needs 12 - 24 hours in between applications. You sponge it on and then work it into the stone by buffing it with a cloth. It has a lot of fumes, so make sure the area is well ventilated.

We used Miracle 511 Enhancer/Sealer, it's a highly recommended product, just try to avoid buying the one sold at HD, it's less expensive, but I've read several times that it may not have the same strength as the one sold by tile stores and the like.

Thanks Lukki- will go purchase some sealer right before we close. i think i can get 2 coats in before we move in.

Bill as for the plate, I dont have the actual plate yet- the plumbing is all coming on monday, but I took a look at the hole and it is not nearly as big as it looks in that picture. That being said it is a new build and we have an inspector coming so before we close I am going to make sure he looks at that if it is a problem!

One question I do have. today was the first time I was able to get a decent look at the bathroom (although I still couldn't walk in it as it was just sealed and they had a big DO NOT ENTER until thursday sign up.. The floor looks uneven. NOT the grout lines, everything was laid perfectly straight, but just uneven in out far off the floor it is. Is that poor installation or just the fact that it is natural stone and each piece is going to be uneven? LIke i said I went at 4:10 sun was starting to set and there are no lights yet (no one was there with their work lights) so I didn't get a COMPLETE look, but figured I would ask.. Thanks FOR ALL OF YOUR INPUt. Granite is supposed to go in tomorrow, but now that I think about it, guess it won't be able to go in that room since it has a big old stay out sign so once plumbing and granite go in i will take more pictures!!

It depends on HOW much difference there is. You're never going to get a natural cleft slate floor to come out completely flat. It's just not going to happen. The only way you'll do that is with honed slate. So there IS an "acceptable" amount of lippage, that goes way past any other stone. You have tiles that may be 1/2" thick at the corners of an edge while the center of the tile's only 1/8" thick. That's the nature of the stone, and in fact, it's why it's such a popular stone, because of the very rustic look it presents. That said, you also don't want to have to repel down the side of one tile to get to the next! There should atleast be an attempt at trying to flatten the floor as much as possible, and for the most part, there shouldn't be any more than 1/8" from one tile to the next, but even that's not a hard and fast rule. It's my own rule.

A little later, I'll get on my wife's laptop and post some pics of the slate I did. (right now, my laptop's running slower than slow, and as soon as I open Photobucket, it'll slow down even more. My wife's laptop has just been upgraded, so it's alot better to work with when using any kind of media)

Hi- back again for more ???. So our slate has been installed, sealed before grouting then sealed again.. I was going to ask the tiler to seal it again for me at least one more time before we close on the house but being that we were just given a bill of $1000 (YIKES) just for the sealing, I have decided to just do it myself once we officially own the house.

So my question is how hard is it to seal? Is it a matter of wiping the product on then wiping it off? I have not purchased the sealer yet and am going to go by all of your advice with product, but I want to make sure that my initial sealing is done correctly.

That's pretty much it. I'll usually tell people to take an old rag, like a cotton t-shirt or towel and cut it in half. Use one half as your applicator, to wipe it on liberally. Let it sit for a couple of minutes and take the dry piece and wipe off the excess.

One other thing-- unless you have about 4000 feet of stone you're sealing, your guy was a little excessive in his cost for sealing that stone. The job I spoke of up above--1400 feet-- it took me and my son two coats-- one penetrating and one a high gloss topcoat sealer- about 2 hours each time, and that included a shower, backsplash, and fireplace. I charged the homeowner 400.00, and almost felt like I overcharged him.

Bill-Thanks for that info. Do you ever work in collaboration with builders? i am not sure if the $1000 was only for sealing or if it included extra work needed to lay the slate- possibly the bull-nosing you mentioned earlier. I am also wondering if the builder added a fee in to make some $$ on that deal, We were just surprised to get that bill along with an additional charge for hooking up the chimney hood in the kitchen.. But we will be talking to the builder tomorrow to try and at least reduce some of that cost.. The money tree has shaken it's very last leaf!!!! Thanks again!

Bill- I read on a different post re:Marbil backsplash, you don't recommend the Tile lab sealer. When I went to my house this am, i saw the sealer container the tiler used and it was that.. I am planning on sealing my slate at least 2 more times, but does that mean that the original 2 coats are a waste? I didn't think anything of it until I saw your post on another thread...

If that's what he's used, I would strongly recommend before you use anything else, you call the manufacturer and make sure the two are compatable. You'll need to have the exact name of the Tile Lab product used.