Ovens are a lot better insulated nowadays, and they have convection. In order to have room for the fan in the back, these ovens fit a baking sheet side to side rather than front to back. So a current 30" convection oven isn't so very much bigger inside than an old fashioned 24" oven.

Gaggenau are terrific. Miele is excellent as well.

You might try taking your pans to the showroom and see how they fit. I have no problem getting three rounds with elbow room on one rack in a Gaggenau. Those might be 8", however. They're cake pans I use for round bread. You should be able to fit your three pans on two racks, but trying them on for size is a great way to be sure.

And you know I love the way the Gagg bakes. :)

3 cake layers is no problem in the Miele, 3 pies the same. Mine has been great for baking. There is a learning curve with the various settings as they are a bit different. You might want to read the various Miele oven threads here as a few of us have posted pix etc. and those have detailed discussions, photos and lots of opinions. I bought this oven after it was vouched for by users here and would definitely recommend it. I have a single and never felt the need for second but if I was doing heavy duty baking again I might want a double. Also very good reports on the Gaggs.

hi cakequeen - I enjoy baking too even though I do more cookies and pies than cakes. I have a Miele oven and use it for baking purposes about 4-5 times a week. When baking cookies I use the convection and keep 3 cookie trays in the oven at a time; for pies I've done 4 at a time without any problems. The Miele bakes and browns the pastries evenly. I recommmend it without reservations.

Regarding a double oven or having 2 ovens - I have 2 ovens at different locations in my kitchen because I thought I "needed" two when we planned our remodel. I'm finding out that I really didn't "need" the second oven. I know I'll use both for big dinner parties, for family Christmas cookie baking and holiday meals, but, admittedly, I really didn't "need" it. However, if I had to do it over, I would choose 2 again. That was one of my splurges. And, since you also like to bake, you may also conclude that having the 2nd oven available for those times when it is "needed" (or when having 2 just makes things more convenient) is worth it.

I've never used a Gagg. but from what I've read about them, I think I would enjoy baking in one. Let us know which one you choose for your kitchen!!

For what it may be worth, Bosch claim that their ovens have the largest useable interior space for their size, on the market. I'm delighted with mine for baking, roasting, bread making etc. Bosch and Gaggenau are part of the same company, incidentally.

thanks for all the info; its helpful. I tried to pull up the prev. posts but am having a problem for some reason. Country Smile, can you fit 4 pies in your Miele at one time? It is a 30"? Wow, that's some oven! Miele sounds like something I need to look very carefully at. I'm going to take my time on this decision since it is a pricey one regardless. I'm still trying to finalize the cab details so that might make a difference too. Thanks again to all of you for useful info.

hello again cakequeen. yes, my Miele is a 30" oven and 4 pies easily fit in the oven. If I had more than 4 to bake, I could fit in another 2 (2 pies per shelf with the convection). I agree that it's "some oven". Who know there was such a difference among ovens! (I used to think it was just a marketing ploy.) I'm guessing Gaggenau are just as remarkable.

I still can't get at my pans, but I do have a tape measure. The rack in my just installed Gaggenau 30" is almost exactly 14"x21". For standard cake layers or pies, it appears you could do three racks and have enough room, but I haven't tried it, and have only used two on the previous model. Gaggenau do make you pay for the extra racks. I guess a lot of people don't use them or want them so they save money by only shipping what fits inside the oven in the box.

Fitting four standard 9" pies with enough room for crust overhangs is easy. Same for cakes. Or a 14" layer, 10" and 6". Three racks of cookies or appetizers will fit, no problem, though again, I've only done two racks and in the previous model.

So, basically, I think we're telling you that you'll be fine with either the Gaggenau or the Miele. Gagg has the side opening oven and two dials for the controls, function (convection on or off, bottom heat, etc.) and temperature. Miele has the drop down and Master Chef where you choose by what you're cooking.

Both are German. Both are pricey. Both are excellent.

After reading plllog's post I was curious at the size of the Miele racks so I just measured them - 21 1/2" by 15 1/2". Three racks come standard with the oven. The salesman at the appliance store where I bought my oven told me they use their floor model to demonstrate and they claim they've put 5 or 6 racks in at a time to bake cookies and they turned out great.

Miele has touch controls for the oven.

Basically, if you want a side opening door for a wall mount oven, you have that option with Gaggenau, or if you want a standard drop down, Miele is available. As plllog said - both are German, both are pricey, both are excellent.

Since it is nearing the end of the year, you might be able to find a floor model offered at a reduced price since stores are clearing out this years' models to make room for the new models.

That extra inch and a half of depth on the Miele could be useful for baking tiered cakes, like if you have a 15" pan!

My rack dimentions for the Gagg were interior size, btw. There's a little overhang space. The Miele is obviously deeper, though the width seems just about the same.

Gaggenau has different accessories: A rack and rotisserie come with. They also have recessed baking sheets that slide right into the racks (like for commercial ovens) and deeper ones for roasting. You can also get a pizza stone with an electric element that goes inside and fits into a socket. I knew I wanted that for crusty breads, but, of course, haven't had a chance to try it yet. Miele probably has similar things.

I think with either you can do your baking, with a bit wider pan fitting the Miele.