If you want dark brown windows you will be very limited in the brands you can use in the lower cost end of the cost range.

PVC expands and contracts greatly with temperature changes so for the brands that use inexpensive plasticizers and for projects in areas of great temperature differences from day to night (Colorado, etc.) PVC windows can have a very short life.

Andersen makes two 400 series windows: the 400 Woodwright will be more expensive than the Integrity but well worth it IMHO and the 400 Tilt-Wash should be a small amount less but has a painted sash (PPG Flexacron is tough but it's not cladding).

Andersen also uses the Fibrex (PVC & wood composite) material (that they use for the Woodwright sash cladding) for an all-Fibrex window called the 100 series. I would think they would be better than all-PVC but they are very new, I haven't used them, and Andersen hasn't seen fit to put them in their catalog. It's possible they are only sold in the Southwest at this time. the version for replacement windows is called Renewal by Andersen.

Here are some PVC windows in Denver; I would spend my money on something more substantial:

I'm jealous! We're at about 33 windows (sliders) and 5 sets of french or slider doors, and the quote for Integrity by Marvin was about $39,000. Milgard wood-clad (fiberglass with very thin wood layer on inside) was $37,000, and Milgard ultrex (fiberglass only) was just under $32,000. We want white windows, not wood stained, and I posted previously about worrying about the visual difference between white fiberglass vs white painted wood, and we've settled on the Ultrex only. Heck, if I really feel there's a difference, I'll just paint the fiberglass on the interior. The Ultrex might be something for you to consider. We're doing craftsman, too, and the 3-lites at the top of the window was also important, as we wanted to get as close to a divided lite look as possible, and I hear (from Macv, amongst others) that the Integrity by Marvin doesn't have the 'divider' in between the panes of glass.
Like I said, though, I'm jealous of your quote! Good luck.

macv, thanks for your thoughts. I know the dark brown is limiting, and honestly the Andersen brown isn't as dark as we want, but we could live with it. I'll try and investigate the 100 series. Windows were an area I said I wouldn't skimp from the beginning, but with the initial bid coming in 50% over our budget we had to make huge cuts. Time to start whittling away some more square footage. :)

Juniork, wow, I'm a bit surprised at your quote, although the doors add up quickly. We are doing 3 over 1 as well. I love that lite pattern. I think we will use the removable grids since from the outside they look basically the same as GBG and from the inside look more like TDL. Plus they should be easier to clean than SDL. Did you price out the Integrity All-Ultrex? We got quotes on some of the windows and the prices were lower, but not as much as I had hoped. We're in revision so I'm waiting to get the new plans before we pursue any more window quotes.

Thanks for the responses,
cintijen

Even your original window quote is so low that it almost seems too good to be true. We only have 33 windows (all from the DH collection, but many large/unusual sizes) and 1 French door AND our lowest quote was $25K for Andersen 400 series...which is what we ended up purchasing. The Marvin Integrity and Andersen Woodwright windows were both well over $30K.
Where are you located that your window quotes are so affordable? I'm jealous!

I have found that window prices vary greatly. The builder on a recent project thought Home Depot would give him the best prices for Andersen Woodwright windows but I found a window supplier who beat that price by 20% and delivered the windows faster. For Andersen windows the price depends greatly on the status Andersen has given the supplier which gives an advantage to large non-chain-store suppliers near urban areas.

You all had me paranoid that I had my numbers wring but I went back and checked our quote again. Our original quote was for 54 windows, mostly DH, but with a smattering of casement, awning, and some fixed. That also included three large picture windows. The quote was just under $26K. We have since revised to under 50 windows, but are doing further revisions so are waiting to get a revised quote.

This is making me think the Integrity is the way to go. Macv, may I ask your professional architect opinion on what a reasonable window budget would be for a 2300 sq ft 2 story with 700 finished in the walkout basement with a build budget of $400K? Is spending around $20K out of balance on such a budget, especially considering the number of windows?

And we are in Cincinnati, OH, btw.
Thanks,
cintijen

Off the top of my head it seems like 50 windows would be more typical of a larger house, say over 4,000 s.f.

Your cost of construction is pretty low and your average cost per window is also pretty low so the cost ratio per window is not out of line but you appear to have considerably more windows that a typical house which is an architectural design issue. Perhaps you should consider larger but fewer windows. I couldn't say more without seeing the elevations.

It is also unusual for a 2,300 s.f. house to be a full 2 stories.

Interesting that for Macv that it is unusual for 2300 to be a full 2 stories. My wife had a 1700 that was 2 full stories. I'm going to guess that tract builders do that all the time, but custom do not. Full 2 stories have to be cheaper than 1.5 on a per sq ft basis.

I have 4000 sq ft and 30 windows so 50 sounds absolutely crazy in a 2300 sq ft house. I don't think I am counting the basement (walkout) that has 10 windows but that also bumps sq footage up to 5400.

So maybe best to say we are at 1 window per 100 sq ft. That is not counting glass doors. But you are over twice that. Our house is crazy bright but we don't live in the North either.

Anyway - remember that windows are your biggest leak for heat and a/c. Typical R-values are 3 on your wall that will probably be 18.

Most around here use MW windows. I've had them in 3 houses. I believe they are regional but they are definitely inexpensive and I've had them on 15 year old houses without too many issues. Mostly the double pane on the arched windows leaked on my last house. I had to replace 1 for inspection but there were 2 more that had some fogging. 1 rotted sash but it was probably because it was too high to paint regularly. Yes - wood. Our dark brown is the perfect color..... I never would have expected to use wood windows but they do look nicer than vinyl and are cheaper than the alternatives.

My house is similarly sized to david_cary's. It is a cape, but it is around 4500 sq/ft with one entire 2 story wall floor-to-ceiling (essentially) windows. To add another 20 windows to what I have, I don't know if I'd have enough wall to support the roof!

Remember to add the cost of installing, flashing, and trimming to the window costs in order to get a more realistic idea of the effect of window choices on the cost of the project. Some windows are more expensive to install and trim because of different nail-fin details, interior frame extensions, and the need for sub-sills if there is not a proper sill projection and drip or if the owner wants a more traditional looking window.

If the total window rough opening area is greater than 15% of the exterior wall surface of the house there are special energy conservation requirements.

I'm linking a thread where I requested feedback on our plan. This is the original version with 54 windows. We scaled back the windows in a revision that still came in over budget, so now we're trying to cut about 500 sq ft out of the upper floors and a bit out of the basement, too. I guess by the time we get there we may not have a full 2nd story.

Anyway, the elevations look great to us and we have spent a long time imagining this as our house, so cutting windows was hard to do and I'm open for any suggestions!

Thanks!
cintijen

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread with our plans

I am very curious to know how the structural designer met the lateral bracing requirement with so little wall area.

What do you need to see to answer that question? Sorry, that one is over my head. :)

The lateral bracing of the house frame (to resist the wind and earthquake loading for your area) will be shown on the structural drawings.

Since the rear wall of the house is three stories tall and not in one continuous plane, the required minimum lateral bracing will not be found in the applicable building code and therefore a structural engineer will have to provide design drawings, specifications, and calculations with a registration stamp. I suspect it will involve some kind of steel moment frames in the exterior wall or shear walls in some of the interior walls.

OK, macv, now I'm worried. So your saying a structural engineer has to approve this design? No one has said anything to me about a structural engineer. Is that a service provided by the architect and covered by his fee? Sorry if these are dumb questions but this is not a subject that has come up in any design meeting.

I have full construction documents here. Would such elements be noted in a section of that rear wall or anywhere else? I'm quite observant of terminology floating around between architect and builder (who has been present at every meeting) and have never heard anything discussed about steel moment frames or shear walls. :-/

As far as the service being provided by the architect, that varies. Some architects will have that included in their price, and others will not as some areas do not require it. The going rate for an engineer to review and stamp plans in my area was around $600 about a year ago. I am sure it is higher than that in more afluent areas.

cintijen, unfortunately I don't have access to the state and city residential codes for Cincinnati but I do know that the design documents submitted to the city for a single family house must include the wall bracing methods and specifications as well as an energy report.

The energy report can be prepared by the architect or the HVAC designer but I don't know who is allowed to design the wall bracing; I just know that it would be required to be stamped by an engineer in Massachusetts because the prescribed methods (ie spelled out in the residential code for the height and length of each exterior wall) would not apply to such a tall wall with so little solid wall area and so many offsets in the wall plane.

The wall shown on the rear elevation drawing must be braced in each major offset plane with diagonal braces, solid panels, or steel moment frames. I didn't see room for the first two methods (that single narrow vertical strip of solid wall wouldn't be enough in MA) so I had assumed the third method but I'm not an engineer and regardless of what the building code requires, I would want an engineer to design this bracing system.

macv, Thanks so much for so generously sharing your thoughts and expertise here on gardenweb. We will definitely explore this issue with our architect. As it happens, we're planning to flatten the back wall to eliminate the offest in the foundation as a cost-saving measure, so perhaps that changes the bracing required, but I'm not sure what the final design will be.

Should I just trust that between the builder and architect the proper steps will be followed? It's overwhelming to think I have to micro-manage each and every step of the process. How would I ever have been aware of this if you hadn't mentioned it on this thread?

You shouldn't have to worry about anything since you have hired a design professional but just to be safe, ask the architect where the wall bracing information is on the design documents (if they are ready for permit application).

If you want to look over the architect's shoulder here is a document checklist:

Information is required to be on drafted scaled drawings for 1, 2 and 3-family dwellings based on the Residential Code of Ohio.

--Room uses, dimensions and ceiling heights
--Building materials used in the construction of walls, floors, ceilings and roof framing
--Smoke detectors (110 Volt) on each level, and in and near bedrooms, interconnected with battery back-up
--Stair details (riser, tread, headroom clearance)
--Stair handrail heights and locations, guardrail heights and opening limitations
--Fireplace details, hearth dimensions and masonry chimney details
--Retaining wall details
--Manufacturer's truss specifications complete with an Ohio Engineer's seal
--Window sizes for emergency egress, light and ventilation
--3' x 3' minimum landings at a main egress door (1 riser maximum), 2 riser maximum if a door other than the main egress door does not swing over the landing
--Fire separation between the garage and dwelling, slope garage slab toward vehicle door
--Beam, header, column sizes and locations
--Deck details, including framing and connections
--Footings 30" minimum below grade, soil bearing capacity
--Roof covering materials, felt underlayment per roof slope requirements
--Wall bracing methods and specifications
--Ceiling, floor and wall insulation values and completed Energy Form
--Attic access and ventilation
--Crawl space access and ventilation
--Location of mechanical appliances (furnace, water heater, flues)
--Outside combustion air for fireplace, furnace and water heater
--Lumber specifications (Fb and E), design loads
--Safety glazing in shower doors, along stairs and landings, near doors and other required locations
--Bathroom exhaust fan
--Architect or Engineer's stamp/seal/signature if drawings have been prepared by same or when required
--Basement water proofing
--Scale Plot Plan (Site Survey when required) for all additions; a Site Survey with utilities and grading for all new buildings
--Completed and coordinated Building and Mechanical (HVAC) Applications when applicable

Once again, thanks macv for such a thorough checklist. We are not at all ready for permitting, so perhaps I shouldn't expect those details to be noted on my 11-page construction set. I guess we got off the topic of windows, but I'm convinced now that vinyl are simply not an acceptable option given our criteria.

david_cary, Am I understanding you correctly that you used all-wood windows? While I know these are cheaper, with painting/staining exterior/interior I would have thought they wouldn't have come in any cheaper, if at all, especially considering future exterior painting. I would love your comments on this as we have only previously had all-wood windows in our old houses. I love the idea, but scared of the maintenance, even with "only" 30. :)

Thanks to all for help and advice. I hope to post our revised plans in the next week or so.

cintijen

With so many windows I believe it will be extremely important to buy windows that will last and be maintenance free. Don't buy anything that has to be painted and use cellular PVC for the exterior trim.

Sorry that I didn't have time to read your entire forum, so you might have already decided what to do. Like you, we wanted bronze on the outside and wood on the inside, and low maintenance. After endless hours of research, I knew I wanted Marvin Integrity and our first quote came in at $25K . I was able to get the quote down by changing the exterior doors (six atrium w/ enclosed blinds) to ThermuTru and that got it to $21K. I love the quality of Marvin windows; they are solid. I have about half DH, half casements. Also, we are pleased with the ThermuTru doors. When I was considering the vinyl, the window salesman told me they didn't come in bronze on the outside as they would fade, they only came in a few neutral colors. Good Luck!

Stayn2busy,

Thanks for your message! We haven't ordered anything yet as we're still revising the plans but I'm pretty set on the Integrity windows. We're also looking at other less expensive door options so it's great to hear you're happy with ThermaTru. They are on our list, too.

Cintijen

We wanted dark brown windows and went with Lincoln aluminum clad wood windows at the suggestion of our retailer. They were less expensive than Marvin but a good quality product.

I did like the darker Marvin bronze finish so Lincoln color-matched it and gave us the same color for a small charge.

Your price seems good to me. We have 19 windows (mostly casements and some of them very large) and 3 french sliders. I seem to recall paying almost 20K, and that was consistent with other bids.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lincoln Windows

Here's an 'off the wall' recommendation: Our long-time window washer LOVES Marvin windows! (We have Pella's. LOL)

Is your architect a *licensed architect*? I'm seeing some plans from people who graduated with a degree in architecture but never went through the stingent hoops to be licensed! These people can draft plans, but have to get a licensed architect to stamp their plas before a municipality will accept them.

Macy -- Maybe you'd revew for us the steps and TIME required to become licensed -- and STAY licesed.

Cintijen:
I am sorry to hijack your thread like this, but I'm just popping in to ask you to email me. I also live in Cincy and am looking to possibly build soon and just had some Cincy related questions about your process. (I also loved the elevation of your plans). Your profile does not allow for private messaging, but mine does, so if you could email me, I'd be eternally grateful! :)

Thanks,

Kim