It sounds like I may have misspoken somewhere here; I try to always be careful and refer to Silvinox as a "surface" or "finish", or something of that nature, to distinguish it from a "coating."

Silvinox is not a coating; it is a modification that is made to the stainless steel surface. Specifically, as I understand it, it is a "reverse plating" process where they remove some iron from the surface of the stainless steel, leaving behind an alloy that is higher in the alloying elements. This results in a stainless steel surface that is harder and more chemically-resistant than normal 18/10 stainless.

The ultimate result is a surface that is "more stainless" than normal stainless steel. It doesn't get the discoloration that other stainless I have gets. My three-year-old Atlantis cookware still looks brand new, after quite heavy use. The surface is tougher than normal stainless, enough so that they recommend that you wash it in the dishwasher.

While Silvinox is not a "non-stick" surface, it is enough harder and more non-reactive than normal stainless that it's a lot easier to get it "pristine clean." I've had a couple burn-ons over the last three years, and after soaking in soapy water, it just came right off.

I've occasionally used just a little bit of Bar Keeper's Friend to polish up the surface. My impression is that I've been doing this a lot less than what people who have All Clad are reporting doing. (Note: I'm not clear that Demeyere approves of using BKF on their stuff, but so far I haven't had any trouble with it.)

In my (biased, I'm sure) opinion, Demeyere Atlantis is actually the best non-coated SS pan available.

I, too, use a little BKF on my Atlantis skillet as well as my AllClad; my pans hang on a rack in a kitchen/great room so they need to look shiny clean. But now that you mention it, the Demeyere pan always looks a lot better than the AC if I miss a scouring. And I agree - Atlantis is the best SS pan out there. I can't comment on the non-stick pans because I refuse to use them.

I have a new Deemyere Apollo saute pan. Had trouble cleaning the interior bottom and used some diluted BKF. It got the discoloration out but also scratched the surface. I've just ordered some BKF cookware cleaner and will try that in the future. Are solarpowered and antiqeusilver referring to BKF and not BKF cookware cleaner? I did notice that the Demeyere booklet says not to use an abrasive and BKF claims to be a mild abrasive.

I was referring to regular BKF. When I use it, I don't scrub with it--I just lightly wash the surface, with very little pressure. I haven't noticed any scratching from that.

Your point, though, is why I made the note that I'm not sure Demeyere is OK with using BKF on their stuff.

I wasn't aware of a BKF cookware cleaner. I'll have to see if I can find some--it sounds like it would be more appropriate for this purpose.

I note that the Demeyere booklet mentions a Demeyere cleaner, but I haven't seen that offered for sale here in the U.S.

Something I've noticed is that the first time I use a new Demeyere piece, it tends to get some discoloration or sticking. I clean that up with some BKF, and after that I rarely get any discoloration, or sticking that needs more than a brief soapy-water soak to get off. It seems like the surface needs a bit of "seasoning" the first time.

I've never seen the BKF cookware cleaner, but I'll look for it.

I never considered that the BKF might be bad for the Demeyere - and I haven't noticed that it left scratches on anything. What were you applying it with? I didn't get a pamphlet with my pans because they came from a cooking school that went out of business & sold everything at half price.

I used a very wet paper towel with a small amount of BKF and medium pressure. Unfortunately the BKF cookware cleaner comes in units of four cans at $15 when ordered online.

Here is a link that might be useful: BKF products

Puzzling. I thought maybe you were applying BKF with a brillo pad or something, but I'm surprised that any powder, short of dry pumice, would scratch it. Sorry I don't have an answer, but thanks for the link to the BKF cookware cleaner.
Hester

Unfortunately the BKF cookware cleaner comes in units of four cans at $15 when ordered online.

Interesting information. I also had never heard of BKF "cookware" cleaner. Since it's advertised as being more gentle, I wonder whether it isn't similar to Bon Ami.

I just ordered a single can of BKF Cookware Cleaner from Amazon for a little over $2, plus $4 shipping.

Regarding Bon Ami, there was a thread recently where a poster was complaining that BKF was scratching something, and it turn out that she/he was actually using Bon Ami, and "thought is was the same stuff."

I've been rolling this decision around in the back of my head. What is it, like 168.00 for a large frying pan? I was leaning toward just what the heck but I don't baby things. I cook on high and use a yellow sponge with the green scrubby part.
Should you really have to baby stainless steel? I mean - its steel!

If you want to keep any cookware in pristine condition, it requires a certain amount of TLC. That said, the Demeyere Atlantis and Apollo lines probably require the least amount of TLC of anything I know of out there. That's one of the main reasons I bought Atlantis.

I am quite happy that it has turned out to be quite "low maintenance" for me. Normally, I just throw them in the dishwasher. Occasionally they need a bit more, which is when I bring out the BKF. A light swish with BKF is usually sufficient to bring it back to "pristine." On rare occasions, I need to scrub just a tiny bit with BKF on a blue Scotchbrite pad.

(I'll note in passing that I don't think the green pads are recommended for cleaning stainless steel. The blue pads, however, are recommended for this use.)

Solarpowered - I am interested in a Demeyere 10" frying pan. I see you like the Atlantis and Apollo lines with the Silvinox. I went to the Demeyere website (not the easiest to navigate BTW), and am unsure as to (A) the difference between the Atlantis and Apollo lines, both with Silvinox, and (B) the difference between Silvinox and Demeyere's "Brinox" surface treatment which is found on their Sirocco and Mistral series. Do you know these differences? Thanks.

Here is a link that might be useful: Demeyere Frying Pans Page

For the frying pan there does not appear to be any difference - it's a 7 ply design. The differences come with the "thick bottom" cookware such as a saute pan. Solarpowered addresses your issues pretty well at the middle of the attached GW link.

Here is a link that might be useful: All-Clad Handles ...(and more)

Solarpowered - another question (thanks in advance!). I think I saw in another thread that you have the Demeyere 11" saute pan, is that right? When they say that the saute pan's diameter is 11", is that the interior diameter at 11", or does that include the handles too so that the interior is less than 11"? At that price, I want to be sure! Thanks.

Here is a link that might be useful: Demeyere 11 inch Saute Pan

Interesting. I have the Apollo 11" pan which has a base diameter of 10.2". I believe that the 11" refers to the outer diameter of the pan (i.e, outside edge of the rim).

Dbaguy - do you mean the 11" saute pan or 11" fry pan? I would think that a straight-sided saute pan would be the same at the base as at the top, so I am interested in the difference you are reporting. (BTW, when I mentioned handle in my prior message, I meant the loop handle being included in the diameter measurement - I think some other manufacturers do include the loop handle in their saute pan diameter specification).

YET one more question for Solarpowered - would the Silvinox surface prevent fond from forming in a pan? If I want to create fond, would I be better off getting a Demeyere pan without the Silvinox?

Minor goof. The Apollo 11" saute pan is listed with a 10.2" bottom. I actutally have the 9.4" saute pan which is listed with an 8.7" bottom. (My induction cooktop has 8 2/3" burners and this is a natural fit.) I've splurged by ordering the 11" "Atlantis" fry pan which also has an 8.7" base diameter.

The saute pan (and saucepans) can have "different" diameters. The number usually refers to the outside measurements at the rim. The disks at the bottom do not go all the way to the curved edge. Consider how much is lost via .7" in the diameter (9.4 vs. 8.7). That seems like less than the length of a helper handle.

I'll try to remember to measure my saute pan tonight to verify my claims.

OK, let's see if I catch all the questions!

I just measured my saute pan, and it is a hair larger than 11", inside-to-inside.

Regarding fond, I believe that it forms fond. My cooking knowledge is somewhat lacking on the subject of what exactly constitutes "fond." However, if I brown meat under high heat, there is stuff that sticks to the bottom and kind of caramelizes, which then comes off when I add the liquid I'm cooking with. (I tend to cook a lot of things that simmer in a sauce.)

The Demeyere frying pans aren't really "Atlantis" or "Apollo"--they sell the same pans for both lines. They have several grades of frying pans, with different features. I haven't yet acquired one of their frying pans, so I don't have an opinion about one pan vs. another. I do note that their Proline frying pans are significantly thicker than All Clad's frying pans.

Thanks Solarpowered for your response, also thanks to Dbaguy for the link in which Solarpowered provided the other answers (difference between Atlantis and Apollo, etc.).

And, Solarpowered, you've got fond!
Wikipedia on fond

Regarding DBAGuy's last post: The Atlantis and Apollo pans are constructed differently. The Apollo saute pans have an aluminum disk on the bottom, which doesn't go completely to the edges of the pan. Atlantis has a copper disk, which does go completely to the edges.

My 11" Atlantis saute pan is both 11" across the inside, and also 11" across the bottom on the outside.

In general, Demeyere's "inch" measurements are translated from metric, presumably with some rounding, so different pans in their lines might measure a bit differently from others. However, the 11" Atlantis Saute pan is definitely 11" across the inside.

Yep, it sounds like what I'm getting is indeed "fond." :-)

Solar,
Not to highjack the thread, but what is the difference in the Atlantis line & the Proline? It's only recently that I've heard of Proline & the internet seller seemed to interchange the two. Is it a different grade or a different product line?
Hester

My Apollo saute pan has a 9.4" inside diameter and the base disk is 8.7". As Solarpowered mentioned it's just a conversion from centimeter to inches. I had thought that 9.4" was the outside diameter but I was wrong.

Most Apollo and Atlantis pan differ in construction (copper/silver versus aluminum inserts) and details (e.g., handle styles). But the fry pans are the same with a 7-ply construction that continues up the sides. The Proline is the same for Atlantis and Apollo (silvonix finish) and the Selectline (brinox finish) is for the Sirocco and Mistral series. Since you can't choose between Proline/Selectline within each of the four series (Atlantis, ...) it seems like some marketing nonsense to confuse customers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Demeyere Cookware Home Page

Solarpowered - regarding the Demeyere fry pans. I am looking at the 11" size. Now I need to decide whether to spend $225 on the Proline fry pan (which Demeyere calls their "5-star'), or $150 on the Multiline fry pan (which Demeyere calls their "4-star"). I understand that one difference between them is the 5-star is made of 4.8mm 7-layer material, while the 4-star is made of 3.0-3.3mm 7-layer material. Also the handles are cast on the Proline, while the Multiline handles are stock--not sure how significant that is. Otherwise, I do not know what is causing a $75 price difference. Is the extra $75 worth it I am wondering? Perhaps the 4-star is lighter and actually easier to work with. While I understand you cannot make a spending decision for me, I would be interested in your thoughts (or anyone else reading this thread) on the differences in fry pans for that $75 upcharge. Thanks.

Part B - And while I am at it, I notice there are matching lids: an 11" Atlantis ss lid for $72(!), or an 11" Apollo Pyrex lid with ss silvinox knob for $20. Why on earth spend $72 for a lid when the $20 one would fit perfectly?

I keep thinking I want to splurge on one of these because I am one of those people who will buy something and if they love it keep it forever.
But I'm so danged confused! Do they have a customer service rep we can actually talk to?