I'll be in the market for one soon and am interested in the responses here. I'm seriously considering the Thermador Freedom full surface unit, but worry about reliability as well. Looks to have the same guts as the Gagg, but way less expensive, but still considerably more than anything else.

Thanks Saeyedoc. Thermador, Gaggenau & Bosch are now all owned by the same parent (http://theinductionsite.com/induction-makers.shtml). Elsewhere others have noted that the Thermador & Gagg full-surface units are the same guts, with different trim & style elements (both have 48 small induction elements)(can't find cite). One dealer has told me that the Gagg warranty is five years, not sure about Thermador warranty length.

Though I'm skeptical on full-surface for reliability, may have chance for test drive; if so, I'll report back.

Miele has a 806mm/31.75" unit with knobs. KM6363
They have a 36" full surface unit with the capability to handle 5 different pans .KM6395
And the 792mm/31.18" 6 zone with 3 double linked zones configuration. KM6367.
All are new models which Miele hasn't currently listed for sale in the US. But that can't continue for long.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele KM6363 with knobs

Thanks for input Dan. Unfortunately I can't wait too long as my current unit's function is degrading. Can't make eggs on vaporware.

Bertazzoni also makes an induction cooktop w/ knobs. Any feedback on that one?

Based on my inability to find anyone who's had one of these models and wants to discuss it, I'll take that either a) they don't work well, or b) there aren't enough of these out there to know if these work well.

I contacted three distributors re the Gagg ci491. They weren't able to identify anywhere that I could a) see a demonstration unit that was connected (not merely a un-connected display unit), b) a happy customer willing to show off, nor c) even see a web video of one operating. Gagg regional rep was non-responsive on c491 & pushed me towards the full surface unit, which I don't want. Crossed off list.

Bertazzoni has only a two year warranty and I was warned that getting work done under warranty was under a circuitous process, which I took to mean more painful than it should be. Also, the distributor I talked with couldn't recall anyone ever having one of these installed. For different Berti heard that of two installations of different product one led to change in product design. Worried that Berti has such a small presence that all products are essentially untested in the US. Crossed off list.

Many distributors I talked with warned me away from Viking inductions. Crossed off list.

Was told that two units with knobs are coming to the US next year. Too late for me. Crossed off list.

Nothing is left on the list.

So instead I'll get a cheaper, touch control model where there is more consumer experience and buy a five-year warranty option from a trusted distributor. Pricing still less than cost of all options above.

Considering the Jenn-Air JIC4536XS (or it's KitchenAid clone KICU569XSS), Bosch (NIT8665UC or NIT5665UC), or Thermador Masterpiece (CIT365KB). Eliminating Electrolux/Kenmore due to bad experience. GE & Fisher & Paykel require too much modification of existing cabinetry for ventilation. Wolf is too expensive for me. I can't get a five-year warranty with other brands.

Any feedback on the above would be appreciated.

Did the Gagg rep say anything specific about the full surface cooktop? I'm very interested in that, but can't see justifying the premium over the Thermador unit which should have the same guts.

It is really importaint that the cabinet under the cooktop is well ventelated. The electronics on all induction cooktops create a huge amount of heat and if the cabinet cannot allow the heat to escape the hot air is circulated back into the cooktop allowing the electonics to not cool properly and therefore reducing the life of the electronics.
Whatever brand you get, I recommend that hot air excape slots or gaps be created just under the countertop where it connects to the cabinet.

Have had a Gagg CI491 for over a year now. It gets used daily and I wouldn't give it up for the world. I have been conscious of the heat problem and so have checked it after heavy use. I have never found any heat under it at all or in the glass over the control area. There is a variable speed fan for cooling but I've never heard it come on although the instructions show it as a possible noisemaker.
The knob works beautifully controlling both the elements and the timers. Additionally, we have the frameless version so with the knob removed, the counter retains the sleek look we were after. Other questions?
Oh yes, a 5 year warrantee. It arrived damaged in transit and the installer replaced it the following day even though we live almost 2 hours from a major city.

Actually i have the same problem but i call a technician who make it good as before.

Here is a link that might be useful: SubZero Repair

Moebus:

Thanks! That's very helpful.

Sayedoc:

The Gagg rep wrote the following to the distributor re: my inquiry on the ci491:

"We do have a video of the full surface induction, although nothing does exist for the CI491. Here is a You Tube video on the full surface unit. I would suggest if the customer has explicit questions about either unit, the use and care (operations) manual can be downloaded from the web. This should give many answers about the way it works. Let me know if you need more from me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otBFFCB4OP8
" I had already made plain that I had seen the video of the full surface, and read the ci491 manuals, but wanted to see a demo model of the ci491. So I took the above response as an invitation to make the decision without additional sales rep assistance.

I think the main differences between the Gagg & Thermador full-surface units are a) the warranty & b) the control interface design. The Gagg warranty is five years on everything. The Thermador warranty is two years on everything then is a limited warranty for an additional three years, excluding labor. For the interface, if you watch the videos, setting power scrolls horizontally for Thermador & vertically for Gagg. The Thermador display appears to be full color where the Gagg does not. I don't know what the price difference is, but for me that evaluation would come down to the guarantee.

With a $2500 difference in list price between the Gagg and Thermador, that buys many hours of labor to make up the difference in warranty.

Jakvis:

I've attached a snapshot of the current set up. I have cabinetry surrounding the current set up, so installing a new vent would take away some storage and present a cosmetic problem. Perhaps the drawer could be perforated or eliminated and the face of the drawer could be mounted such that it had a gap for air flow; however, if I have a choice I'd rather not.

My understanding was that the different units vented differently, which is why they have different space requirements. As mentioned above, some models require as much as a foot of space beneath the unit or a dedicated vent. Others only specify about 1-2" clearance beneath and no dedicated vent (e.g. Thermador specifies 1"). I think some were designed with the intent of pairing the cooktop with an oven to be installed immediately below, and so are designed with that in mind.

The model I currently have has it's own vents above the counter surface on the front & back edges. The installation instructions do not "recommend" a drawer but do not give any minimum distance of clearance below the unit. Our installer advised that the drawer would be fine provided we didn't keep much in it, which we don't.

Sayedoc:

Ouch! I'm with you.

Alina1Grace:

Did you mean that you have the Kenmore 790.4290(0601) & the controls break every two years or so? Or is it a different make/model?

Moebus:

What space clearance do you have beneath the ci491? Do you have a drawer or cabinet underneath it?

I have a gagg 36" as well and love the knob controls. My final choices were Miele and Gagg and I did trial cooking on both. Miele at a local dealership and Gagg at Purcell Murray in NorCal (Gagg distributor). I did not care for Miele's touch control interface. Felt like I had to press too hard. The Gagg was really intuitive. As an example, my elderly mom cooks on the Gagg everyday and it took her a couple of times to get used to the knob. Btw, I did look into the zoneless but did not feel the functionality was that much better. I also got my unit on eBay. It was a never connected display model from a showroom in Florida and I had no issues with warranty.

Some pics to help you.

Close up of the knob dial control. You just glide the knob towards the job and the line appears to select it and you just spin to set the power. The power levels go from 1-9 with half points in between each. So the power level selected is 5.5 (the small dot next to 5 means half point)

The knob is just magnetic and can be removed for cleaning.

The 36" Gagg had the least amount of clearance requirement. I have a utensil drawer beneath and even when I cook a lot the drawer does not get warm. The cabinet back has cutouts for ventilation that my cabinet guy was able to do easily.

I have about 5 in. clear below the bottom of the unit and then the spice drawer. I was concerned about putting the spices there hence the monitoring for heat.
As you can see this installation has all the no nos. Island cooktop, downdraft ventillation. To all the naysayers however, this installation works perfectly well albeit, not cheap.

Thanks GWlolo & Moebus! Very helpful info. Esp. comment re elderly parent. Mother-in-law struggles to use our current unit. Oh, & your kitchens look great too.

I guess I can put the Gagg ci491 back on the list. Discovered the Jennair/Kitchenaid require cutting a vent in the front, which my wife won't like. That would otherwise leave Bosch/Thermador, which are already pretty close in price to Gagg ci491. But since the knob seems to work well and that unit apparently works over a drawer it might be the better option for this application.

One potential problem with the Gagg is that the cutout for the old unit is much larger than Gagg requires. The trim on Gagg will _just_ cover over the hole in the counter, but concerned about the ability to add material to the old cutout & have it support the weight of the unit plus 5 full pots.

Has anyone done this with a Corian type countertop?

I had the opposite problem when I swapped out my 36" Bosch gas cooktop for my 36" Gagg Induction. I had to grind of about 1/8" of Quartz to make it fit Luckily my DW was away that weekend... MESSY!! Had the Gagg for about a year know and love love love it. I can never make the touch pads work. I think people with softer skin on their hands seem to have less issues?? My beat up old hands don't do it... No issues with the knob set up. I was told they are $200-$300 to replace though so don't lose it though.

Thanks rentaltux. I found a display unit & decided to get one. Though I guess the display was only sufficient because I saw GWlolo's pix above. They had misplaced the knob & it wasn't wired anyway.

I was wondering if I could fabricate a backup knob with some wood & a magnet or two. I still haven't examined the knob so I don't know if it's impossible to jury rig one for temporary use. Thoughts?

Ed- can you share what two knob units are supposed to come out next year? I'm seriously considering the Bertazzoni but I don't need it for a while and was wondering what my other options are...

Miele per Dan1888, European model shown above. The other I'd classify as a rumour I heard from a distributor who said Wolf (I think) was working on one but that it wouldn't be released until next year, he speculated March. He suggested I might wait for the Wolf vaporware b/c he thinks Wolf makes great quality induction units. Because of my jaundiced worldview I'm always suspicious of the price-quality connection. Despite Wolf's self-described 'best' warranty it appears to be two-years full followed by three limited to selected parts. Not sure where the extra 'quality' is supposed to be.

Shannonraz:

One other comment on Bertzi, since you have time maybe you could find someone else in the US that has one & is happy. I like the design but didn't want to be the first purchaser.

Bosch, same parent as gagg and Thermador is about $1800 to $2250 for the
500 models, 30 and 36 wide. The touch controls are simply part of the learning curve, and there is one if you don't want to pay mega bucks just so you won't have to learn something new. I learned and I am likely older than Lolo's mom. Two thousand bucks motivated me to learn! Just a personal preference, but not a necessary one. That pays for a lot of service calls or even a new cooktop. Bosch is not a shabby step sister.

Westsider:

Thanks for the good info. I have a Bosch wall oven, built-in mwave, & dishwasher, each for about six years. The oven broke twice in the first two years & required replacement. The mwave has been replaced three times after breaking four times. The dishwasher only needed service once (or was it twice). The aggrevation has reduced lifespan trying to get the warranties honored (by Sears). No more Bosch for me. Yes, it's the same mfg, however salespersons have said that the Gaggenau appliances get some extra engineering as the company is trying to establish reliability reputation for the brand supported by 5-year warranty. (This was volunteered by salespersons without prompting with above story, so has more credibility than if above story had been relayed first.)

Why so many breakdowns?! One salesperson related it to amount of power surges & brown outs and noting that my area, Arlington, Va., is prone to these. His theory is that the circuit boards are vulnerable to these power variations and that such are worn or fried by the variations. I don't know if true, but if so my best protection is longest warranty that will be honored with reasonable service levels.

I feel a bit hamstrung as other models (except buggy Electrolux/Kenmore) would've required expensive changes to cabinetry and loss of storage space.

Finally, the control issue with touch isn't so much knowing how to use as spotty performance with wet/greasy hands or control surface. Knobs are generally faster and surer, wet or dry.

Theoretically the ci491 gets installed this week. I'll report back w/ feedback. Given above history my expectations are not sky high, but hope springs eternal.

After reading another thread here about problems with touch controls, shutting off inadvertently, changing settings, etc,, it sounds like it's best to avoid those. Given that and how new the zoneless Gagg and Thermador are, I'm thinking about going with the 36" Gagg with the magnetic control.
Anyone have an approximate price on it?

The wet/greasy hands problem is probably more of a personal situation that seems to apply to the OP.
I have a hand towel available when cooking but just don't see anytime come up when my hands are wet or greasy when I am using the controls. Knobs may be necessary if you are in running into this problem, but generally touch controls are usable.

Saeyedoc:

From recent shopping around the Gagg ci491 is about $4,500 currently. That's in different regions, but not necessarily all regions.

Dan1888:

I often wash food (e.g., veg) & dishes while cooking so my hands get wet & greasy doing that or slicing meats. Maybe I have stuffing on the stove while I'm prepping the chicken. If I try to make an adjustment to avoid burning whatever I can have a problem if I haven't stopped to wash and dry my hands first. For those of you that don't multi-task in the kitchen it might be less of an issue.

Sometimes its not my hands but the control area that gets wet and greasy. For example, if I'm frying up some bacon or boiling pasta there's usually some spatter that ends up in the control area that can interfere with the operation of the controls. On my unit a simple wipe is usually but not always sufficient. I might have to get a soapy sponge and wash and dry the control area. Now my hands are wet again, so I have to dry them.

If something's at risk of burning I can move the pan off the hob so it's not a big deal. It's just a downside of touch controls. I'm hoping it is all solved with the ci491 knob. Installation not this week, so I can't post initial review of it yet.

Ed c, you sure have had problems with Bosch.

Saeyedoc, when you say to avoid touch controls, is that based on your reading of two posts where touch controls are bashed?

There is a learning curve with induction touch controls, but people do learn. Really. Yes, knobs, in and of themselves do not have a learning curve for almost all able bodied people.

My daughter, 20 at the time, mastered touch controls in a few days of making her breakfast egg dish. It can be mastered.

Westsider:

Thanks. A little less condescending next time, please.

I had the Gaggenau ci491 installed about 2 weeks ago. So far my family has no problem using it, including my 10 year-old. While some of the controls are touch related, the power setting for each hob are adjusted with the knob, & the entire cooktop can be turned off by removing the knob. It works well for us and is an improvement over the buggy touch control unit that it replaced, in my opinion.

I found there was a paucity of information on this model, so to try to help others evaluate it _before_ purchasing it I posted a 12 minute instructional video on YouTube. Disclaimer: Use the video at your own risk. I am not affiliated with Gaggenau and make no binding representations related to this product. Here's the link on YouTube. http://youtu.be/0yqROURkzUM

This cooktop runs a bit small. Though I got the model with the trim to try to cover up a the hole in the counter from the prior cooktop, it wasn't _quite_ big enough. Therefore, I've had to order a custom trim piece made. For those of you that need a maker the one I've ordered from is Micro-Trim, Inc. (www.microtrim.com), in California. Manufacture and shipping across country for about $180. I feel like I should've paid 1/2 that, but couldn't spend lots of time shopping around. I'll post a picture with the trim installed after it's done. The above referenced video was shot before the trim arrived.

As to reliability, I won't be able to gauge that for some time. Thanks again to Moebus, GWlolo & Rentaltux for helpful comments.

Here is a link that might be useful: Instruction Video for ci491

Here's a snapshot after installing after-market trim. So far so good. Knob seems easier to use than touch controls for my family. Good luck to Saeyedoc.

Looks nice. Was talking to a local salesman the other day. He used to and no longer carries Gaggenau, told me he doesn't recommend them here because of difficulty getting parts and service. Nearest dealer is over an hour away.
He's steering me towards Miele or Wolf, but man, I really want that twist know, so cool.
Hard to believe who's telling the truth.

Saeyedoc:

FWIW, when I was shopping around comparing units one salesperson told me his firm had carried Gaggenau but stopped; he cited reliability issues. For that reason he was steering me towards the Thermador full-surface unit, saying that he could not get the Gaggenau appliance.

Later I spoke with a different, more senior salesperson _at the same shop_ who told me that while they had a Thermador full-surface unit in inventory, he could get a Gaggenau appliance if I was interested. When I repeated what I'd been told about service issues the second salesperson told me it was news to him.

I don't know where the truth lies, but any statement from an interested person could be a bluff.

I just called Miele USA and, sadly, there "are no plans" to introduce that KM6363 cooktop with knobs in the US.