We had a similar issue with my son concerning his grades and his devotion to Xbox. At his school, we get two week interim grade reports via email, so we know his grades every two weeks. When they slip below what we expect, we eliminated xbox during the school week.

He wasn't happy, but after the first time, he budgeted his time better and while we had a few uneasy moments as he finished 4th qtr last spring, his grades are what I consider above average - 3.48 gpa. Not what he's truly capable of, but you can't force a kid to get good grades.

It truly is important that they realize that their grades through their junior year have a huge impact on what schools they can get into in college. When my son lacked what I considered serious study habits, I told him that I would not be paying out of state or private school tuition if he wasn't going to take his studies seriously. He could "find" himself at any of our fine state colleges, and once he had "found" himself, he could transfer to another institution or plan on going to graduate school somewhere else.

It might help to open her eyes for her to go out onto the college's of her choice websites and see what they expect for their freshman - classes to take and profiles of gpa's and test scores from the most recent freshman classes.

I've heard of parents taking their kids' cell phones and disconnecting their internet connections (I have done this by turning off our wireless router) during certain times of the evening - 6-9PM etc.

Not to be on a soap box here, but I've always told my kids that going to school was their job - not working at the mall or at a restaurant. School was their primary priority. Go to school,put in a good effort and as a result, get good grades. It not any different than any other person who goes off to work every morning - you are expected to arrive with a good attitude and put in your best effort.

I would sit down with her and set what your expectations are for her. I would give her a two week timeframe to bring her grades up (check online after two weeks). If the grades haven't improved to your mutally agreed upon level, then you need to take something away - laptop/internet/texting during the hours she is to be studying. If that doesn't work, I'd would take the phone and computer away totally for the next two weeks. I think you'll only have to do this once, and she will realize she needs to be responsible for her work or the consequence is painful!

Deee, I feel for you, your post echos concerns I had all the time when my daughter was a teenager, To me, those teen years were one of the most difficult times during the entire process of raising my daughter. Back then, we didn't have the same access to grades and academics parents have today but boy if I had! I totally agree with you about trying to teach her how to take responsibility, not micromanaging and so on, (I followed that same philosophy with my daughter also) however, she's crossed the line now by not respecting and valuing the trust you put into her. At this point I think it's your responsibility as the parent to become more involved and really by her actions that's what she's telling you she needs. If it were me, I'd let her know your concerns, why you're going to be making the changes that you are and let her know that until the time comes that she's managing her time better you will be more involved. Give her a time frame, a semester or how ever long you feel as her parent is necessary and let her know you'll be willing to back off then once she proves it's the right time for you to do so. Good luck.

My kids aren't teenagers yet but I have 2 living with me, so yes, I can totally relate to your experience. It was the same w/ my niece (19yo) First semester, she went out ALOT (!), spent all time dressing up, putting on makeup, and texting. She assured us her grades are excellent but of course when the report card went home, it was another story. I'd wanted DH to take a stronger stand a/b her grade (because it's very important to get good grades in order for her to transfer into her choice college). DH said no 1. she's already 19 and no 2. she isn't his kid. *sigh* I asked her mom (my SIL) to take stronger stand w/ her kid and she said she doesn't want her DD to hate her *sigh* So they let her drive her own course & now, 2 years later, she's missing out her chance to transfer to a very good college. She will have to attend a 2nd tier one.

My experience is that kids are very much influenced by their peer group. If your DD is hanging w/studious kids she will study. If she hangs out w/ kids who love to go out & text she would do the same. I agree w/ caroleoh recommendation -- make sure your DD understand your expectation of her, and that she has to put school first. I would also put her in extracurricular activities (sports, music, local volunteering) which may boost her chance for admission and keeps her busy (away from trouble LOL). Start her on SAT prep course. Good SAT score helps too.

I think 2 things really helped me stayed focused during my teen years: volunteering w/ the Redcross & hanging out w/ overachieving friends. I really wish teens would volunteer more -- it teaches them social responsibility & to think for someone beyond themselves.

There is a good website called "college confidential" where kids go to discuss a/b admission to college. I told my 16yo niece a/b it and since she got on, she realized how tough it is to make it to a good college. She also tends to be more receptive to advices from her peer than from the elders LOL :-D

college confidential also has a forum for parents to discuss helping their kids getting into college, plus all other parental agonies. :-D Hope this help!

Here is a link that might be useful: college confidential

I hear ya! I used to keep check on my kids' grades via online but I just don't feel I should have to, it infuriates me for some reason. My parents never had to check on me continuously about my grades. I didn't need my Mother to question me and make sure I did my assignments. I knew what I had to do and I did it!

I don't know what's wrong with some teens now. I get so infuriated with mine over this issue. Like you, I constantly wonder about the balance between being involved and hovering. If I could redo it all over I would never baby my kids the way I did. I think that's the true difference between my upbringing and my kids.

Unlike my Mother did, I thought I would be excessively involved with my kids with every minutia of detail with their lives, but I can honestly say that I feel that hampered their development. I "used" to think poorly of my Mother's mothering skills, but now I see it only made me the person I am now. I moved away when I was young and I could never have done that had I been "babied."

Don't even ask about my oldest in college right now.
Oy boy!

Gee, how do we ever know what's the right thing to do?

: )

There was a Dr. Phil show recently and I only caught scant pieces of it but I heard something about them saying there are more kids now non-prepared for life than there ever has been. Perhaps someone here may be able to offer more accurate quotes from that show.

Not that I think Dr. Phil is 100% right about everything, but I thought I heard Dr. Phil say he disagrees with over-parenting?

"When my son lacked what I considered serious study habits, I told him that I would not be paying out of state or private school tuition if he wasn't going to take his studies seriously. "

We did a version of that same thing with our son. I made a simple table with four tiers of schools, listing specific schools (Ivy League, Competitive Private, Moderately priced out of state, and In-state Public. (He very much wanted to go out of state.) I tied it to SAT / ACT scores because those were more objective, and for him, easier to influence. Also, his high school does this really weird GPA calc with different weights for different classes, etc. Basically, I told him: "There is a direct correlation between your effort and our money, and this was what it looks like." Then I had him sign it, and posted it on the family bulletin board. (He ended up achieving at the 'Competitive Private' level, and is doing very, very well in a really good, great-fit school.) What also helped was touring different colleges. In my son's case, the only schools he liked fell into the top two tiers -- so the lower two tiers on our chart were actually very effective 'negative motivators'.

For what it's worth, I don't think checking online qualifies as hovering unless you're visible about it. If she's doing what she says -- no action on your part is needed. If not, have her go to the online parent portal with you and explain her grades.

We had a teen that was under achieving too. Not that his grades were bad, they were ok, just not what he could achieve if he put time into his work. So minimum effort was getting him a good, but not great GPA. Ok, but not good enough for the colleges he was telling us he was thinking about and certainly not as high as it could have been if he actually studied a little more. We decided we could either punish him and become the "hovering parent" (what's your homework for today, let me read your essay before you hand it in, yes you need to go over you math with your dad before the test)or we could try and motivate him to achieve his own personal best. So, we chose the carrot rather than the stick.

Now, not everyone will agree with us on this but this is what we did: we told him if he achived "Superintendant Honor Roll" which in our school is a GPA of 95% or above we would reward him with $250. That's the possibility of $1000 per year to buy an ipod, buy new speakers, buy all those things he may want, but really didn't have the money for. Pretty big carrot as far as we were concerned. We also said that if he made the Principal's list (90% GPA) we would pay $100 for that. We made it quite clear that 94.999% got him $100. The school also sends a letter out at the end of each quarter congratulating each child on their achievement. We require that letter to come and say "superintendent's list". It's a pretty high standard, but you know what, he's done it every time except once. No nagging on our part, no reprimanding on our part, no hovering. Carrot worked great. I know that alot of people don't like paying kids for grades. We never did before this, however, it works for us now.

Good Luck!

At the moment my DS is learning the consequences of not putting in enough effort in all his classes... he has been rejected from his first-choice college. It was painful but he knew it was not anyone's fault but his own. I agree it is extremely frustrating to have a kid who can do better but just doesn't do it, for whatever reason. My DS could have all A's and B's if only he would do all his assignments. He just seemed to think that some homework was optional! (Esp. in classes he hates, like math.) I spent his junior year badgering him about homework, checking assignments online, scouring weekly progress notes (posted online by his school), and all it did was make our relationship unpleasant -- and didn't change his outlook on schoolwork or his grades! This year, I decided to shut my mouth (for the most part) and see what happens, and oddly enough, without my nagging, he is doing better. We did tell him that if progress notes indicate that he is not doing his work, his weekend social life will be in jeopardy.

We tried a version of paying for grades last year -- if he got all As and Bs, we would raise his allowance for the coming term. Well, we never had to do that because he always had a C, usually in math. So, sometimes the carrot doesn't work.

If DS doesn't get into his 2nd choice college (out of a total of 8 applications) he is going to be really sad, and we'll be biting our tongues so we don't say "...told you so!"

I agree that it might be helpful for her (assuming she's interested) to look at what various colleges require in terms of GPA. Again, we tried this with my DS but because he (1) is an "artiste" and (2) believes everyone should know he's brilliant in spite of his mediocre grades, it really didn't have the desired effect!

The big carrot might well be the college of her choice. I always said that if I had just seen Yale earlier, I might have actually done my homework! (hahaha....right, Amy!) Something about that campus really made me swoon at age 17. I think if you take your daughter around to see the colleges she feels interested in, it will drive the reality home and perhaps inspire her to work for something more concrete. Most teens live very much in the moment and I think college is such an abstract thing. Make it real, I say!

Now, here's something to think about regarding the stick. When we have had "issues" with our daughter and considered hovering, I always think about our ability to maintain the watch. If you make rules, you need to enforce them consistently. I try not to make any edicts I know I won't follow up on. Bedtimes are particularly tough since I am in bed long before my kid usually is.

We did "unplug" the internet connection when skyping with a long-distance boyfriend got out of hand. I wasn't willing to babysit the situation, but I did turn off the internet and even resorted to taking away the cell phone for a while. Thankfully, they've broken it off.

We went through the application process a couple years ago when DD was applying for private high school. I have to say that those few months of essay-writing and test prep were a low point in our family's life. I hope we learned something and won't repeat the craziness in two years.

At some point I feel like I just have to surrender and let it play out as it will. It isn't my life. But I do agree with other parents who are unwilling to pay the big bucks for out-of-state schools when the effort has not been put in. That's just how the world works!

Does anyone have their kids turn off their phones while they are supposedly doing their homework? I know the brains of the current crop of kids seem to be wired differently than mine, but how can you possibly be studying, etc, when the phone placed right on top of your book is buzzing every 10 seconds alerting that you have a new text message? I haven't gone that route yet with my DDs, but may soon if a few grades aren't brought up. Also, do you have rules when the phones should be turned off for the night? I'm just wondering if these kids arent just too dang tired during the day from the phone being attached to their consciousness 24/7.

Our daughter had a very spotty and disappointing high school record. In spite of that, she got into her first-choice college (a private out-of-state school), and even got a small merit scholarship. But we were very concerned about how she would conduct her studies, and were dubious about paying top dollar given her past level of engagement.

Ultimately we told her we would let her go there for a year, but that our support was depended upon her performance. We also decided that she needed to pay 10% of her tuition so she would have a stake in the matter.

She is in her second year and is (thus far) doing spectacularly well. We still emphasize that this is a year-to-year decision, and she still pays her portion.

I don't think checking her grades online is hovering at all, and I wouldn't even hesitate to do it in front of her on a regular basis. That's one of the reasons they make grades available online for parents - the accountability factor.

Personally, I'd also turn off the internet for a couple of hours each night and assign some chores if you haven't already. (For a lot of kids, having more structure is better - not to mention it is my opinion kids should be contributing to the household AND learning how to become self-sufficient before the leave home, but that's another topic!)

My 14-year old step son is in 8th grade and already has a few hours of homework each night. (Seems like it's a bit excessive, but I'm no expert.) By the time he gets home from sports practice, has dinner, does homework and a chore or two, there's no time for loafing! He knows he's expected to get it all done before bedtime. He usually does have time for fun in there, too, if he doesn't dawdle. If he is a slow poke, he suffers the consequences - no time for texting, playing his games, or whatever.

My husband is an assistant superintendent of a great school system. When I see him tonight, I'll ask him his thoughts on your questions. He has had lots of experience with all kinds of teens and parents over the course of his career, and may have some pointers.

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Keep 'em coming!

I wanted to add that in all other aspects, she really is a terrific kid. She does chores, including her own laundry, swims on the school swim team, carts her sister all around for me, works as a lifeguard in the summer, etc. She hangs around a group of like minded, academic kids who take difficult classes and thumb their nose at the party scene.

My husband mentioned to me that it is almost like she's having this continual fantasy that because she is bright and sweet and well spoken and well regarded by her teachers that somehow this pesky grade thing will just work itself out. We've never tried the money motivation. We have lots of relatives that send money for gifts, plus she works so she really doesn't lack for money. We told her last year that if she got a full academic scholarship for college, we would buy her ANY car that she wanted. That really hasn't motivated her either. She's perfectly happy with her 10 year old Subaru.

Next month we have a trip planned to her number one school for a recruitment program specifically geared towards women (it's an engineering school). Hubby wondered if we should postpone the trip to let her know that we are serious about the grades. We're driving 8 hours total, he has to take the day off work, she's going to miss a day of school, we're sending her sister to Grandma's house, paying for a hotel and other expenses. The lesson being is that if she isn't making the effort, why should we reward her with the trip? She might be able to squeak an admission to the school but with her current study habits she will never last. We can always go another time if she gets serious about her grades. I hate to burst her bubble but she's the one poking the holes in it.

See, I would take her, let her fall in love and then use that as incentive to get her grades going. If this school requires a GPA of x.y and rather high SAT scores, and she wants to go there -well.....That's pretty good incentive for her. It's also concrete - she will see the school - it will be a concrete reality to her. Then she can work towards getting into her "dream" school.

We told her last year that if she got a full academic scholarship for college, we would buy her ANY car that she wanted. That really hasn't motivated her either.

I'm hope you realize that that kind of scholarship is extremely rare.

I have six kids who each went to the college of his/her choice between 1987 and 2003; all of them were members of NHS in high school, two of them were president of NHS, two of them were valedictorian of their class at a very fine high school with about 500 students in each graduating class, and one was salutatorian. The other three kids were in the top 15. They all took advanced and AP classes. We had a drum major, an all-state athlete who was also president of his class and treasurer of NHS, captains of the baseball team, etc......and one salary. We raised them on $50,000. a year, which did qualify some of the older kids for financial aid. BUT NOT ONE OF THEM WAS EVER OFFERED A FULL ACADEMIC SCHOLARSHIP!!! The lowest ACT score any of them earned was 32! They received small athletic, music, academic scholarships, but not one offer of a full academic scholarship. I have no idea how you get one of those.

Sherry

One thing that may have an impact... go to the websites for the colleges she would like to attend. Find the page that lists the profiles for incoming freshman. Many/most colleges these days are quite specific: Avg. GPA, SAT scores, etc. She should be able to tell whether or not she would be accepted today based on her GPA. Remind her, this isn't what the school is saying it would like, these are the numbers for the kids they admitted. It might be a wake-up call. I will say we heard over and over again that the tougher schools are looking for the applicants to take the toughest curriculum they are offered, so she is on the right track there.

I would definitely go to the college and let her ask what is required and what they look for in grades. It will be an eye opener for her as most teenagers never think that 'they' will be affected.

A couple of things I did when my kids were in that stage:

1) We turned off internet, tv, phone, all electronics until after their 'study time'. Supposedly, you are supposed to study or have homework for at least 10 min. for ever grade. i.e., if you are in 5th grade, 50 min., 9th grade, 90 min. Even if they didn't have 'homework' for the day, they were required to study, read, work problems, etc., for their 'study time' and then they were free to enjoy their electronics. It was amazing what this did to their grades, and they didn't really seem to mind it.

2) I made my daughter sit through "Where there's a will, there's an A". She had to do the homework at the kitchen table where I could see, and again, she had to do this for a minimum amount of time. She was having problem with algrebra at the time, and the teacher said it was just because she wasn't doing her homework.

Good luck. One more suggestion: You could take away some priviledge until her grades go up. (Take away several and stair-step them back if her grades are very bad.) Since you have access, you would know exactly when they went up, and it would give you an excuse to monitor her grades better.

Remember to keep the lines of communication open and make sure she knows that you are her parent, and that this is important. You don't want her rebelling thinking that you are just being 'mean' for something unimportant. She will thank you later in life.

I don't think teenagers have all the maturity sometimes (and some college-age kids) to monitor their own grades and change their behavior if their grades start slipping. That's just part of your job as a parent (IMHO).

Good luck! Teenagers are all different, and you will know what works best for your daughter.

Many of the online college sites (Princeton Review comes to mind) show the GPA and SAT/ACT ranges for the middle 50% of students accepted. That was the benchmark we used when guaging DS's chances of acceptance, and by and large, it was fairly accurate. (FWIW, DS's grades were not that good, and he took the SAT/ACT many times until he got a 'good enough' score. Also, he's working his tail off in college, though that was definitely not his pattern in high school.)

One other thing to consider -- If you're looking for scholarship money, applying to less competitive schools, or schools looking to increase diversity by adding students like your daughter is one way to get it. Some engineering schools may admit more women with slightly lower academic profiles to avoid getting too lopsided. Or schools across the country may want to increase their geographic diversity by adding students from your state.

But in my experience, the top schools don't need to offer academic scholarship money to attract top students. And if they don't need to, why would they? In this economy, they're lucky to be able to offer financial assistance to students with demonstrated financial need...

It may also help to have her fill out the uniform college application form now -- even though she's not ready to apply. Just filling it out might illustrate for her how relatively unimpressive her credentials are (if that's the case) or where she needs to edit her activities to create more balance.

I'm not asking the following to be inflammatory, nor do I mean to hijack the thread so I hope this can add to the discussion. There are so many interesting & intelligent comments here about raising kids I thought it would be the group to ask. Full disclaimer: I do not have children. I barely remember being a child, and I'm only 50, so I can't remember if I went through this same behavior (as described above by more than one parent) as a teen. Anyhoo...

Does the current culture of everybody gets a trophy play into the mind set of kids who think they will just automatically get accepted to their school of choice? If they've always done their bit (sports, music, academics), with little or full effort, and received some form of reward or accolade, are they set-up to believe they will always get rewarded and, in this case, the reward is acceptance?

Or is it just a teenage thing that we all went through, even back in the old days when concern over our self-esteem was not as prominent? You're young, the future is far away, you just want to live for the fun of the moment, maybe a little fear of big change is easiest to deal with by not thinking about it.

Even though I don't have kids I'm curious about the world and the people in it. That's why I opened this thread and why I'm asking. Who knows? Maybe the knowledge I gather here will come in handy some day, some way.
Jean

Jean - I think it's the teenage thing we all went through. You're young, the future is far away, you just want to live for the fun of the moment. Those are their thoughts exactly. Just recently my (now grown) DD said to me that when she was a child, "I never thought anything bad could ever happen to me because it never had before." Maturity changes us all.

I think some of it is "just a teen thing." I also feel that the way some kids are raised today, with all the stones cleared out of their paths by hovering parents, contributes to the problem. When everyone gets a trophy and competition is eliminated, there is less incentive to strive for things. Competition can get out of hand, but competition is how we evolve as a species. It's real world. Everyone Gets A Trophy is not real world...it's some made up thing that is leading us down a dangerous path, IMO.

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This question is being framed as an "all or nothing" scenario, and it really doesn't work that way. All kids get the trophy's in sports in kindergarten, 1st grade and usually up to 2nd or 3rd grade. Since, most kids aren't that great at such a young age this does help develop self esteem and team building skills. 6 to 8 year olds should be concentrating on learning the skill sets they need without a huge amount of team competition. They also don't need the parents' competitiveness at such a young age. They also need to work on learning how to work as a team.

Then, in 4th or even maybe middle school, the winning teams get the trophies. It's not everyone; that really only happens in the lower grades. Believe me, the competitive drive is alive and well in sports. By high school it is in overdrive!

So, the issue being raised doesn't seem to be an issue.

Since you did ask, Hhireno, as a parent, I agree that geogirl1 has phrased it well the "everyone gets a trophy thing" is inconsequential IMO. My son is in first grade  when he did soccer, yeah, everyone got a little trophy at the end of the season but all the little kids were very clear on which team won / lost each game, and which kids scored the most goals. Any kid that can count knows that, hears the sidelines cheering for each goal, etc. Our son participates in wrestling also, and they have one-on-one competitions that clearly have one "winner" and one "loser". A little plastic trophy at the end of the season is definitely not the culprit! Quite honestly, they shouldnÂt waste the money on them, as I donÂt believe they have any meaning to anyone (little kids or grownups) until they are really earned. I must add that in our family, the emphasis of sports is primarily on exercise and personal fitness so anyone that participates wins in that regard.

I must also say that a "big name" college is not the end all and be all for life success, or even a guarantee of a high salary once graduated. Google all the recent discussion on the importance of what is being called "grittiness" for getting ahead in life. Many people who go to big name schools graduate deeply in debt and donÂt have the salary after graduation to pay it off. A degree from a big name school doesnÂt guarantee you have any financial savvy.

Deee, the things you describe about your DD makes it seem like she is a very responsible and hard working person, and I think these things will serve her well in life, and could possibly predict her future success even more so than perfect grades.

My kids are little still, and yes, I agree with everyone that I too feel the fear of my kids "underachieving", not now, but when older. As a teen, I kind of wish my mom would have paid more attention to my schoolwork (In her defense I think she was kind of overwhelmed with her life as a single parent) so I don't neccesarily think monitoring is a bad idea. Kids' brains don't really mature until they are in their early 20s.

Jenny from the block, college is expensive, no matter where you go. Almost everyone graduates with enormous debt, even from lowly state schools. Currently, average debt for a four year degree is more than $20,000, and it's very hard to get a job these days. Grad school adds even more to the debt.

Sherry

deee- some thoughts for you... As a parent you just worry all the time. Even if your child made top grades and got into her first choice school you'll still worry if she's going to be happy or fit in or do well. I think it's admirable that you're trying not to hover too much and to allow your daughter to learn from her mistakes. From your description she sounds like a responsible individual who just might need a little reminder of what her options are and what she needs to do to achieve them.

You've been given great advice here. Since the school posts her grades online I don't think it's unreasonable to check them. Ask your daughter if she is able to raise that C to a final grade of B or better. You could even suggest that she talk to the teacher to determine what specific areas she needs to work on.

The only thing I can add is even if she doesn't get into her first choice she may be just as happy and successful at her second. It's just the 'what if's' that drive us crazy. There are few professions where it matters where you received your undergraduate degree. Graduate work is different but even then it only has an effect on certain aspects of that career. For instance my son is graduating from Law school in May. He has an undergraduate degree in education and enjoyed student teaching - I asked him if he ever thought about combining the two and one day teaching law. He told me that the higher rated law schools tend to be rather 'clubby' in their hiring practices and favor the big name schools - the Ivies and the highest rated ones. But it wouldn't preclude him from teaching law if he so desired. Again it just might not be his first pick - but how many of us get our first choice in everything- that's one of life's lessons.

And if it makes you feel any better my future lawyer didn't even go to college after high school- he worked in a restaurant for a year. When he started college he thought he wanted a business degree. That didn't work, he had to drop a course and flunked another and had a miserable GPA. He switched to education and every semester his grades improved dramatically. By the time he graduated his was making all A's. After graduation he decided to work in a restaurant for 2 years. All I could think of is why didn't he go to the CIA for a culinary degree. Then he decided on law school and he's finally found his passion. Even better - he has a job after graduation with the law firm he worked for last summer.

I relate his story because you just never know what the future holds and that the way is often circuitous. As a parent you can only do so much to guide your child but ultimately it's up to them.

I know this was long but I wish you and your daughter the best.

Mcmann, thank you for posting. You really encouraged me with your story. My DD got into her first choice but she didn't do well at all her first semester. She has since told us that she wants to pursue a completely different field and a different school.

Thanks for sharing.

flowermum- I appreciate your thanks. It's very difficult for both the parent and student when they're experiencing all these different situations- for some it's their first major failure and they may have trouble coping with it. And if it happens while they're 4 states away in college you may have no clue what they are feeling. That's probably one reason for allowing children to experience and own their own failures as they're growing up.

I think it's wonderful that your DD has realized she wants something else. Many students don't acknowledge that because they think it's admitting they made a mistake.

I've had 3 graduate from college in the last 11 years- one attended a small, expensive, liberal arts college and then went for an MBA; the law student went to the most expensive (for out of state residents) state university in the US; and the third went Ivy League. All 3 selected the best school that accepted them- hence the cost. While all 3 received wonderful educations I don't for a moment believe that they couldn't have received a great education at most of the other colleges in the country. I lived at home and commuted to my state university for both undergrad and grad school- and worked 25 hours a week to pay for it. My DH went to a small college that no one outside of the area would recognize but went on to med school. We both paid our own way and perhaps value our degrees even more for that.

My two kids have graduated from college and are on their own now, so I know the frustration of knowing they can work harder than they are, and not knowing how far to push. Sometimes I think we have to ask ourselves as parents if we are expecting too much from them.

It looks like your daughter finished with a B average on her last report card, and that's pretty darn good, especially since you say she chose hard classes (which colleges also look at when reviewing GPAs). It might not be a good enough average to get into the extremely competitive schools, which might be her first choice, but if she continues with grades like that, she'll get into a good school.

I think you're doing what you should be doing--checking with her from time to time on the status of her homework and her grades. I don't think a student with a B average should have privileges taken away from her, but that's just my opinion.

I am the parent of a DD who is a freshman at a private out-of-state college. DD was a great student all through school, never had a B on a report card from K-12. Even with those grades, she did not get a FULL academic scholarship from any school she applied. DD received the maximum (President's) scholarship from her college, $16K per year for 4 yrs. With that generous scholarship and some other monies she qualified for from the trustees and the like scholarships, her tuition balance of $23K plus the cost of room and board.

If your child is not putting in the time now, do you really want to put out that kind of money for college? I would recommend attending the two year community college in your area. See how it goes. No, your child will not get the whole "college experience", but from your post, I do not think she is working hard enough or showing you that she wants it badly enough to put the time in to get it.

"I'm having a hard time figuring out where the line crosses from being a responsible parent to being a hovering parent. We hate to have her future choices limited by immature decisions. But we would also hate to be over involved in her academic life to the detriment of her learning responsibility and life skills.

IMHO you are definitely have to sit on your hands. She needs to step up. If she doesn't go to her dream college if she has one, she will see that the blame lies with her own behavior. Accountability. Have you talked to her about her accountability in this equation?

I feel that parents are jumping in and managing things for their children. While helping is necessary, I see parents that go waaay overboard with this. Children need to learn to be accountable for their actions or inactions.

We had online access to DD's grades, attendence, etc. I didn't need to access it, but there are parents who look at it daily. I know them. They are the same parents who overbook their kids with too many activities to make their children well rounded and then wonder why their child isn't achieving all A's. Well, look at their schedules. Kids are so over-scheduled, over stimulated.

As soon as they are old enough to be glazed over while watching tv and being lured in as future consumemrs, parents and/or caregivers are putting them in front of that. The kids are given those hand held game things, or put in front of the tv with the cable shows that are just junk. Then there are the parents who get the kids the playstation and those things. Do you know how many kids I see that actually blink constantly from playing those games their parents buy then to entertain them. Parents don't play games with their kids any longer. I can't tell you how many times a day I played the board game Hi Ho Cherry O with DD. It taught the child how to count disguised as fun. Quality time with your child. Putting a puzzle together, doing a craft project, taking the telescope outside at night when it is clear and starry outside? Whatever happened to that? I am wondering if its just me and my close girlfriends who raised our kids differently. Parents don't read to their kids they way I did when DD was very young. DD had no idea that there was anything other than PBS on TV when she started pre-school. I'll never forget the first Halloween party at pre-school. 90% of the kids were dressed as power rangers. My kid had no idea what a power ranger was. And so it begins. I never gave in. DD has no/never had any interest in those hand held game toys I see the kids using while in the grocery store while mom pushes the cart, mindlessly throwing junk food into the cart without checking the ingredients, whilst on the cell phone talking to a friend about another friend. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Okay, now trying to come down from my soap box.

caroleoh writes: "It truly is important that they realize that their grades through their junior year have a huge impact on what schools they can get into in college."

While this is true, colleges expect students to keep their grades at or better than what they are on the academic transcript submitted with their college application.

The college may retract an acceptance of a student whose grades change negatively during senior year.

Also, colleges look at many things besides the academic transcript when reviewing students for admission to their school. They look at the student's involvement in their community and school; participation in school sports, outside interests, community service, the list goes on.

Is your child involved in the community? DD has been involved in community service before she was even old enough to know that she was, in fact, involved. DD learned the importance of giving back. DH and I led by example, at times taking DD to service events where chlldren were welcomed; given age appropriate "tasks". Watching us as well as many family member and friends contributing to our community taught DD the importance of community service. The community service is very important on so many levels. Most importantly, it feels great to give back when you are blessed with so much in life.

I think you are at a crossroad with your daughter. I would keep the communication as open as possible. Perhaps she is going through a phase or things at her school aren't the greatest right now. Went through that with DD at school. Fortunately, it didn't affect her grades.

Until the grades are at an acceptable level for you, I would take the cell phone. She can have it back when she shows you she is responsible enough to use it appropriately, i.e.; not interfering with her schoolwork. Limit her socialization on the weekends. I've found that parents who hit their kids where it hurts (NOT physically) find it helps turn things around.

Best of luck to you.

I have never thought that restrictive, vindictive parenting advice from cocksure people high on a soapbox was necessarily good parenting advice. That kind of parenting fails to consider the abilities and needs of the child. Certainly A students can earn Bs, but not all B students can earn As in everything, no matter how hard they try or how high and mighty their parents are. If they could, As would be meaningless.

Most of us try to do our best as good role models and cheerleaders for our children, and it's good to seek advice. It isn't all good advice, though.

I knew after I hit submit that I was going to be flamed.

sherman - thank you for your insight. However, I do take exception to your questioning my parenting skills. Also calling me vindictive is a bit much.

to OP - if I have offended you, I sincerely appologize. My post was a rant, however I think I did quanitfy it as such. Does not excuse the rant, but as I have friends and family members with teens similarly situated, this is a very hot topic among my group of friends as all of our kids are either applying, recently enrolled and/or graduating from college. Actually, I should have limited my opinions and conversations to my group of friends. I have learned a very valuable lesson.

To any other member who I've offended, I do appologize.

Just for the record, I am not offended. :-)

I'm not offended either, but I think you can't compare your daughter to most teenagers because I would say she's not like most teenagers. Most teenagers are interested in school as a means to and end. Most teenagers are more interested in what's going on this weekend and who they're hanging with than the AP Physics test on Monday. And if they keep their priorities quasi in line and their nose to the grindstone 80% of the time, I'm ok with this. I'm ok with my kid having fun in High School.

My biggest beef with this whole college application process is its become such a competition. Grades are such a competition. Getting straight A's in high school does not insure a successful college experience or more importantly, a job after graduation. I have a friend who's daughter was an excellent student, super over achiever, super community service volunteer etc... She tried to kill herself her Sophomore year in college. She was so overwhelmed with trying to keep up this perfection she had achieved all her life. Her parents really put no pressure on her because she did it all her herself, so they were shocked beyond belief. She dropped out of school for a year and is now back in school and doing well, but it was a scary time for them. Their son who is graduating with my son, is not as devoted to his studies and they're fine with that.

I know parents who say - my son/daughter has never had a B. Wow, to me that's amazing. I guess in a good way, but then are they really that smart, or just good at doing their schoolwork and keeping the teacher happy?

I think you have to let your kids be kids, but also keep a watch on them. My son is approaching graduation YEA!! and is waiting to hear from several schools. Yes, I am nervous he won't get into his top choice, but know that if he doesn't he can always transfer in his sophomore year if he doesn't like the school he ends up going to in the fall.

As far as the costs, it's definitely a personal choice and based on your financial situation, but I still am not a huge fan of spending $$$ per year on college costs. I'd rather be able to continue to help my sons with graduate school if they so choose than be tapped out with undergraduate costs. Plus, I have three kids, so what I do for one, I feel is only fair to do for the others, so if you only have 1 child, then your financial outlay would not be like mine x3.

I am the OP and I'm not offended because it's obvious that you didn't read my posts very carefully. Most of what you posted doesn't apply to the situation.