I've built 3 custom homes in my life. Each time I used a very competent lighting store. I've used the same store for the last 2 homes. I set up an appointment and take my blueprints. The person who assists me is very knowledgeable. I buy all of my lights from the same place. Since I do "whole house" purchases, I get 30-50% off the retail price, depending upon the manufacturer. Those prices are more competitive than hunting around on the web. And the person that I work with helps me with my style selections as she knows what is in the 100+ catalogs. And, she orders the bulbs, too. And, she walks through the house with me before I sign the invoice. And, she delivers the lights when the electrician is ready to install them. She oversees the installation to make sure all the parts and bulbs are there and that everything is working. Her service isn't an extra fee either. If you lived near me, I'd tell you to use my favorite store. I've sent builders there and now they use that store for all of their clients.

Since I'm a good customer, I go back and order lamps or mirrors or other accessories made by the lighting companies and I always get 30-50% off retail.

Cameron

wonbyherwits: our GC has suggested we use his favorite lighting store because they make his job easy. He says they always have everything needed and they know what all is needed. So, we'll go there (it's the store I went to 30 years ago when I lived in that part of town).

But, you mean that the person in the store is the one who develops your lighting plan? I need a plan drawn in on the "blueprint" also. It will become an addendum to our contract with the GC. Does she do all that too?

pinktoes, I agree wholeheartedly with wonbyherwits. We went to a lighting store that our friend and neighbor worked for, so we got the "friends and family" discount, which was slightly better than my builder discount. A lighting specialist took our blueprints and came up with a plan he thought would work. Then together we sat down and tweaked that plan so that it would work for us. This was a process that from first meeting to last order took approximately 10 months. Our lighting specialist was awesome, and he gave us great advice and never steered me wrong. He grew to know my taste, and toward the end I would say "just pick something, I can't do it anymore" and he would pick something great. I strongly suggest doing it this way. There is no charge for this service in any store that I know of. My particular specialist does not work on commission, and that was nice too.

Good luck, this is a huge part of your project.

Amy

Yes, my lighting consultant drew the light placement on a set of the blueprints for the electrician. She was at the house with me when the electrician came to walk through. He was obstinate though and wanted to just mark the house and didn't want to look at the blueprints. She didn't handle switch placement, so I had to do that with the electrician.

Sometimes the electrician will insist on supplying the recessed lights and/or flourescents for garages and closets (building code). If that's the case, you'll have to work out the placement of those with your electrician. My lighting store could have supplied all those, but the electrician insisted for this house. In my previous house, that electrician was fine with the lighting store providing all fixtures.

I also got my doorbell from the lighting store.

I hope I don't have to deal with obstinate electricians and that it isn't my responsibility to fight it out with who supplies what fixtures. We're doing a fixed price contract with our GC and he has a site-supervisor for the build, so somebody on his end needs to run that interference for us. I would think.

I found a great site, lightingplans.com, I think, that has sample lighting plans for different rooms. Then gives a Lighting Schedule for that plan. It's like a "cheat sheet"! Well, it is good for seeing examples of how various plans are developed for each space.

BTW, if anyone has done, or has any ideas about how to do lighting without using cans, I'd appreciate your thoughts. I saw one photo just using pendants down a hallway rather than cans. Since you lose up to about half of the light by recessing a can, I figure you can space your surface-mounted fixtures farther apart than you would cans.

have you thought about using wall sconces for hallways instead of recessed cans?

A good light designer would be the first place to start. I started by taking my floor plans and making a copy without all of the construction details - just showed the walls and locations of cabinets . I also made a copy of the outside elevations so that we could spot exterior lights. I went the extra step of adding scale size blocks of furniture to the plan to help locate accent lights, floor outlets, etc.

Then let the light designer draw in the light locations - amke sure they identify the areas where you need extra support for chandeliers and heavy fixtures (the electricans will use a much stronger box for these lights).

AFter the light locations are set, then you need to tell the designer where you want the switches. Think that through carefully - where you want 3 way and possibly 4 way switch controls (if you have a room with more than one entrance & exit - that is where you want to use the 3way & 4way switches).

Once you get through the light locations & switches - then think about outlet locations. Note that with minimum code there are never enough outlets and they never put in enough switched outlets (and for the ones they do put in, they tend to be in the wrong spot). That is where your furniture locations and table lamp locations come into play.

When you are done with that part of the plan - the electricans now have enough info to start wiring the house. Have several copies of the plan made - one for you, one for the electricians, one for the builder.

After you get through the wiring plan - then you can start the process of picking through the gazzilion catalogs to select the specific lights you want. This can take a very long time depending on what your needs are - that is why I would recommend doing this part after the basic wiring plan is finished.

I cannot stress enough that you need a lighting specialist for this. You will not be sorry for a myriad of reasons. They know (at least the good ones) how far light is thrown for what types of fixtures and how far apart they need to be spaced. I will tell you that there is, at least according to my sources on both sides, a type of friction between lighting specialists and gc's. For whatever reason, they seem to clash. I trusted my lighting specialist to do his job and I'm so happy I did.

Amy

Amy: Ten months? Now I'm scared. You must have used some complicated lighting??

wonbyherwits: So I get better/more "free" service the more money I'm spending, I'm guessing. That's how they cover the "free" part? I wonder what would happen if I tell the lighting store that I just want basic, functional lighting design and builder grade fixtures?

sniffdog: thanks for outlining the process. I know you're an electrical whiz! DH and I have already been talking about our 3 and 4-way switches. And he's really into having those occupancy sensors for areas like foyers and his WIC, so that's on our tentative wiring plan. And he's given a lot of thought to the exterior stuff. We talked some with our GC at our last meeting about all that. DH will pull the wiring for the computer network, etc., himself. He has done enough basic electrical work that he knows a few of the questions to ask. But he doesn't think the interior lighting (except the switches!) are his area. That falls to me.

I'm reading and taking notes today. The 2 kittens we rescued come back from the vet this afternoon after neutering and shots. So my hands will be full settling them in. But I've really got to get my basic plan done this weekend, wild kittens on my head or not. LOL!

Well, I'm on my own with the lighting plan. I'm doing a crash course in light spreads, footcandle recommendations, and all the good stuff. Our wishes are simple and so is our house. I started thinking that this has gotten over-complicated by the industry. You know, our country was founded by people who drafted the Constitution without lighting designers, etc., etc. LOL! And DH and I have managed to locomote, cook, and even start a business here in our own national-builder-starter-home. Which--I can assure you--has had NO lighting engineering. So, we asked ourselves this morning: can't we do this without overkill?

And so, I am working out an interesting (to me) and personally satisfying arrangement with our big lighting company. I just finished talking with one of their designers, the owner, and also with the head of donations at a local foundation for the visually impaired. I'm going to do my own lighting plan, review it with our GC, have the usual assistance from a sales rep at the lighting store--whatever service they provide someone who's buying serviceable/functional lighting with one upgraded DR chandy, plus fluorescent tubes, some pendants and some plain flush-mount ceiling fixtures. Mostly builder grade fixtures.

They've given me an average lighting price for a house our size and configuration. And an estimation of what we can meet our own, lesser, lighting needs for (which is a good bit less; we're simple people!). I sent them examples of fixtures/manufacturers I want and they worked off that. We will donate the price difference, enhanced by the percentage of our federal tax bracket, to the local foundation. We will designate our donation for use only to buy consultation time, at a reduced hourly rate, and fixtures(at cost) at this lighting store.

The foundation houses some work programs for partially-sighted people. They said they could take in more work/offer more jobs to these folks if they could get some better lighting workstations set up in their facility.

ERGO, a win-win-win situation! And we will have that much less money going into our mortgage as well. I'm a happy camper. I LOVE to do stuff like this.

Back to the books, now. Just thought I'd share this, since we're nearing the holiday giving season and everyone's last chance to do their charitable giving this tax year.

Happy, happy. I still--more than ever, in fact, need any help or resources anyone can share for a DIY lighting plan.

pinktoes

Our lighting plan process (wiring plan + light selection ) took a long time - not far off from what Amy said. That is why I recommend that you seperate the wiring plan from the light fixture selection.

The wiring plan itself can be drawn up within a few weeks. You don't have to make the light fixture selections right now - but you do need to pick (for example) that you want a dining room chandelier and it will be heavy and require a special box (these electrical boxes have bolts that secure it to joists- rather than nails - so it can support a heavy light).

It you focus first on the light, switch & outlet locations first - you can get that donein a few weeks. And that is what your builder needs first - so the electricians can do the rough in. I drew my plan up over a few weeks and then it took 2 meetings with the designer to review it and tweak. So that process took about a month and a half - but we were not in a rush.

Now the light selections took my DW many many months and we met with the light designer at least 6 times to get through it all. The reason it took us that long is that we wanted to buy lights that matched our decor - which includes wall colors, furniture, natural lighting - the list goes on. Once she made the initial selections, then we would discuss with the designer. In many cases he agreed with our selections. But on some he would tell us that the light we picked out would not work with our wall color or it wouldn't throw enough light into the room, or was too big for the room, etc. So then DW would have to go back and pick out another light - but if that one light was part of a series that we were usuing in other rooms - then we would have to re-look at changing the lights in all those rooms. Just a few lights like that caused a lot of swirl. It was time consuming and frustrating. I can say it was worth it for us - I just started hanging the lights in the second level of our house and they look fantastic.

The other approach to this (which may not be such a bad idea) is to install the lowest cost stuff you can buy now and upgrade later. This was how we did our first house and it wasn't a bad approach. I would still do the detailed wiring plan and still make sure you can accomodate the size and weight of fixtures you want down the road. But you can avoid a lot of stress now by going this route. And the nice thing is that you get a chance to live in the house, paint walls, put curtains up and then pick lights out to match.

sniffdog: I understand what you're saying about the wiring. I recall now that before we downsized our house design, we had done a preliminary wiring diagram. So, I'll search around now for it. The only thing was we didn't know anything about what our fixture choices (broad types, I mean) would be then. And we didn't have the 2 rooms with tray ceilings.

We told our GC long ago, jokingly, that we didn't find much satisfaction in elaborate light fixtures or crown molding, so he need not price that in. And that those were probably 2 of the easiest things to add later, should we find that we could not lead meaningful lives without them. He looked at us quizically. I'm sure he thinks we're aardvarks.

We will install adequate supports for where other people might want chandeliers and such--or even us, who knows? And our light fixtures will hopefully be easier to match than yours because, we just don't have the nerves to go through all that. If we find one we like, we'll use it everywhere. Like our flooring. We found a floor tile we like and it's going throughout the entire house. Same thing with paint color. Same thing with kitchen and bath tile. Except more floor tile is going on the walls of one bath.

Like I said, we're simple people. But I do think you've got the process exactly right. And i don't know that most people go at it as systematically as you do. So, we'll give it a try.

You probably have already considered this, but the lighting world is changing. I don't know what state you live in, but CFL or LEDs may be in your future. Incandescents may go the way of 8 track tapes.

Sometimes I miss the simplicity of my youth! When I was growing up we had one light in the middle of the ceiling in each room. One light switch per room. We didn't have air conditioning or color TVs. We didn't even have a telephone for a long time. When we finally got one, it was a "party line" shared with the neighbors. We lived in town for awhile and our street wasn't even paved. Those were the days! :-)

I hope all goes well with your lighting plan.

Cameron

Cameron: I grew up in Hotlanta, GA, but I gotta tell you, we had the same situation. Party phone line. Overseas calls (uncle in the military) were a MAJOR deal. Grandmother had bare lightbulbs in the ceiling with string pulls in her old victorian house. Each had one additional plug, so extension cords were used for the radio and lamps. Bedrooms had no electricity or lights. Used oil lamps.

Amazing that she and I sewed (treadle machine, no wonder she had great legs), quilted and embroidered under such primitive conditions. We used the one sitting room and sat by the windows. Oh, and today we still have one light fixture in the center of our rooms in this house, built in 1988! And, horrors, I'm not going to deviate TOO much from that in the new one. I have to be careful not to get caught up in all the hype of what is expected now. With any luck we'll go out of the new house toes up and the heirs can figure out how to update it to sell.

Our GC talked about the LEDs and said by the time our house is built we might want to consider them. Well, that's a bad omen, being as I told him our deadline to be in is next August 1!!! Yeah, right.

The LED bulbs are too expensive now, and the light output is less than is claimed. Maybe by the time the bulbs become affordable, they'll just go into a regular light fixture and we'll all have our choice: incandescent (if still legal), CFL, LED.

Our house is not all that elaborate that we need an overly complicated lighting plan. We have already planned to do a lot of various types of wiring "for the future/just in case", etc. DH is a computer geek, so of course he's wiring for things I can't even envision; just not lighting. He shutters at the idea of having to learn how to use lighting controls that HE didn't invent! He thinks he's being flexible to go with rocker switches rather than the old toggles.

The 2 beautiful stray cats are home from the vet, tested out clean on AIDs and leukemia, got neutered, vaccinated--the works. They're settling in, but I know overnight will be DH and I trading off paw-holding, sitting in the bathroom where we have them confined. Nevertheless, me and Mr. Caffeine have a serious date for tomorrow morning and a lighting plan to design. Think I'll break out my mug that says "With enough coffee, anything is possible."

Thanks ALL. I THINK I can do this.

Of course you can do it. You've obviously done your homework, and you will do just fine. You know what you want, don't let anyone try to sway you.

Amy

pinktoes

i read your other post on the lighting forum about not wanting to get up on ladders - which I can understand (i just got done putting in 4 recessed trim kits that were 14 feet up - yikes!)

I would suggest putting in more switched outlets than what would normally be installed - so that you can put in table lamps or reading lamps that can be controlled by one switch when you enter or leave the room. Not only is it a pain to turn all those little lamp sitches on and off - they tend to wear out too.

The switched outlets will give you more flexibility - say down the road you decide you want a wall sconce or some other permanent fixture - you can easily have an electrician tap into one of the outlet boxes to run up a switch leg to power the light. I had the elecricians add a number of what I call half-hot outlets. This is simply a a duplex wall outlet that is wried so one of the plugs is always hot and the other plug is tied to a switch. I put these to the left and right side of each bed location, in corners where we might want table lamps, etc. Now when I enter a dark bedroom, I can flip on the switch at the entrance and the bedroom table lamps turn on.

Since your DH is a geek - and so am I - I recommend that he check out www.smarthome.com. They sell a product line called Insteon which I have installed a bunch of into my new home. These are radio controlled dimmer switches and outlets that allow you to add some automation (maybe just a little) into your existing electrical system without re-wiring (what I mean is that you need to replace outlets & switches - but do not need to run new cables.)

After we moved into our last house, we quickly discovered that the wiring was not done to support the way we lived in the house. For example - the house was wired assuming we would always enter through the front door - which we rarely did (used the garage entrance instead). Unfortunately - there was no way to turn on the kitchen lights when we came in through the garage - try that at night when it is pitch black inside. AFter many toe stubbings on the kitchen table - we needed a solution that was non-invasive and low cost.

I started using remote controlled dimmers and switches to fix these problems myself - and saved a boatload of money by avoiding re-wiring. I simply added a contoller at the garage entrance (taped into an outlet and added a box to house the controller) and then could remotely turn on and off kitchen and other house lights where I installed the remotely controllable dimmers. DW loved it.

In my new home, I went crazy with the Insteon products so that not only can I control just about every light in the house remotely - I have programmed scene's (hit one button for the TV viewing scene). I had to do this (this is my story and I am sticking to it) because we have an open floor plan with a lot of lights. For example - our family room has 4 different light circuits - recessed, ceiling fixture, low voltage cans, and floor plugs for table lamps and then 3 different ways to enter and exit the room. Instead of having 12 boxes (4 switches x 3 locations) - I installed 4 remote control dimmer switches and 3 scene controllers. Now when you enter the room you hit one of 6 buttons which will dim all of the lights to preset levels. It was a lot cheaper to wire the house this way because every 3way or 4way circuit is hefty upcharge and every additonal switch is an upcharge. Using the remote control approach in my family room - I had zero 3way/4way cabling, 4 switches, and 3 outlets (where I installed the controllers).

I realize that this might be way beyond what you want - just wanted to give you an example of how you can add in this type of automation after the house is done.

Best of luck with the plan.

sniffdog: Thanks for your input. I see you're still in your electrical/electronics heaven there! We'll be working on the wiring plan this weekend, so I'll steer DH to your post. I'm NOT afraid to do that because he doesn't go overboard on automation.

It does sound like--and I don't have a clue--maybe the radio controlled systems work better than other "wireless" things we've tried and are totally fed up with. EX: our wireless security cameras. Don't work anytime they get moody and decide not to. Totally worthless. We really just use them to monitor the activities of our cats, so it's not a problem. But even for that the new house will have them hard-wired. DH wants a lot of wiring done that will have no "appliance" if that's what you call it. But in place just in case, for later.

We're probably using more 3-way and 4-way light and outlet switches than usual. And they cost, but as we age we can see the time every unnecessary step could be a problem.

What I've about come to on the lighting, after getting sidetracked by aesthetics, is that function must rule. This house is for us to finish up in (hopefully), so resale be hanged.

Except for a few long fluorescent tube lights, I'm putting almost all the lighting in as pendants and wall sconces. We have a great little stool with a high handle you can hold onto (like some doctors have to help patients get up on examining tables) that raises us up about a foot--just enough to reach those. Why should I have things up on those 9 and 10-foot ceilings?? Some will need to be on the ceiling. and they will all be long life fluorescents. We'll have to bring in help to change those.

I also found some of those old-fashioned counter-balanced pull down pendants. Pottery Barn carries one. While I'm skeptical about the mechanism enduring, we probably would only pull them up and down rarely. Mostly to change bulbs. So I have a few locations we might use those, too.

I've figured out that there's no magic here, except not to let everyone intimidate me about this idea. I know it won't be as pretty as other fixtures. But then, I'm not as pretty as I once was either, and I don't let people discount me because of that. They need not discount my lighting scheme either. Age changes everything!

I"m sitting here wondering if I didn't put enough thought into all this! LOL The guy who drew our plan had an electrical plan in it when we got it. So maybe he just did all the work and I didn't realize how much to appreciate it! We did go and change a few of the locations and some cans to regular lights and changed some switch locations but all in all it was pretty much there.

pinktoes

for reliability, having harwire is best. I harwired all of my audio, security and computer components. I like wireless - but if you have walls exposed during the build running wire is cheap and a no brainer.

The Insteon system I mentioned actually uses both the electrical wires supplying power to the devices as well as a wireless communication to provide a dual method for sending signals and improving reliability. The previous generation of this class of product is called X10 - and it only used the electrical wires - it is not as reliabile as the Insteon system.

You have certain requirements which are reasonable - it's your house an you don't need to follow "conventional wisdom". You can use any type of fixtures or lamps to acheive good lighting - just think it through.

Best of luck with the planning.