I think both of you are missing the point-- or maybe not. Either way, I would never and will never host a party and tell someone they must give a financial gift and it must be THIS much. It's one thing to do it as a fundraiser-- another to do it for your own benefit (or for your kids, sister, etc). If the family cared about celebrating the event over and above all else, they'd not address the issue of gifts-- let alone demand a specific amount.

It's a tacky trend-- if it is a real trend at all.

I googled Jack and Jill showers and it's basically throwing a coed wedding shower. The basic concept is the same as a regular wedding shower, but since the groom is part of the honorees, gifts are not just for the bride, but take into account the groom - sports equipment, grills, etc.

The concept still includes the idea that the hosting party pays for the food and drink, not the guests.

If they wanted to be honest and clear, but honestly and clearly tacky, they should have put on the invitation - no gifts please, cash only.

Charging admission to a VFW party of $25 a person is just odd and backward.

But, in the spirit of some of the other posts, just because your relatives are tacky doesn't mean you shouldn't go. Yes, it's wrong, but they're still your family. If you really feel strongly about not going, I wouldn't make a big deal about why, just say you've got plans that weekend, and will see everyone at the wedding.

From the email invitation "Tickets are $25 per person, children are free with parents. There is no charge for the wedding party to attend. It will have a cash bar."

DH has attended "stag" parties like this in the past, but they usually have a band, or golfing, and a raffle. Now the latest email is looking for donations of raffle items! As far as I know, the other events have not asked for such donations (though the siblings of the couple may have contributed for all I know, rather than the hosts buying the raffle items). We did attend one J&J years ago for a couple who did not invite us to the wedding so I don't know the details, but do know that we had to buy tickets but there were door prizes.

The backstory on the bride and groom was to illustrate the fact that they have no money, but don't have any expenses either. Hence my assumption that it was a fundraiser, but I thought the food should be provided by the hosts. I don't know what kind of liquor license the VFW has, so not sure if we can bring our own (not that either of us really drinks, but DH would probably like a beer or two if it's hot), or if that's rude even if it's legal.

The question was since I offered a coffee urn (which I have since found out my mom donated to charity without telling me), and I am a first cousin, whether I should feel obligated to spend the $25 to go (alone?), or if just going to the wedding (and bringing a gift) is enough. If I/we attend the shower, we will not spend as much on the wedding gift - we are on a budget. I have gone to baby showers and I think a bridal shower or two on my dad's side of the family, but never attended a J&J where I have known the details of the preparations (since I've only been to one and it was a friend of the family).

I did make a (5 tier) wedding cake for one cousin as a gift, I was thinking of offering for this cousin as well but my mom said not to since the bride is very particular, and I am not a professional.

I'm just saying, go or don't go. Just keep this conversation here and don't take it to the family. In the end it doesn't matter what trends we care to support or not support. Just if you go, I vote for you to drop your judgement and have fun. If you can't support it, just say you have other plans.

Maybe it's a fundraiser because the parents want them to move out. LOL!

Jen's sentiments cover mine in this issue. This reminds me of a wedding I was invited to a year ago. In our invitation, in hand writing was a note, "Please do not give gifts, the bride and groom are requesting cash instead".

WHAT? I was appalled, but ya know...maybe they had some major emergency blah blah...still tacky, but I was further appalled when I found out that this hand written request was not included in all invitations, just the ones they felt would be able to "give large dollar amounts". (This from the mother of the bride!)

We barely knew these people (members of the same club). We not only didn't attend, but we didn't send a gift or cash. MANY followed suit (though I'm sure that their actual friends and family did go).

Weddings and showers can be such a pain. Do you do X? Do you not? Geeze this is supposed to be an outpouring of love and affection not a competition for who can raise the most amount of cash. I mean why not just have one of those thermometer pictures outside with a bucket so they can mark off how much money they've raised!

For our baby shower we had an opposite nightmare. Two very dear friends of ours were throwing me showers. I devided our "must invite" list in two, some at one party and some at another with only a thought about their schedules and not about who's party they were attending. We did have to invite some people that we normally wouldn't have (they asked for invitations in public and they were employees) akward situation, but we included them on X list. Well it turns out that they are rampant social climbers and had only pushed for the invite because they thought the shower was at Y's home. I explained we had two and had split folks up so as not to overwhelm any of our hostesses.

They brought a gift to the club, declined the invitation for X's house but said that they would attend at Y's house (they were not invited) and (this is their exact wording) they would bring us another gift at Y's house so that Y new what a nice gift they were giving us!!!

I was so frustrated...we didn't ask for showers, but I do understand and so much appreciated how much love went into the two that were organized for us. But for some people to use it as a social ladder? Good gravy. We thanked them for the gift (I donated it to charity quietly) and specifically told Y not to issue an invitation. It was embaressing and ugly and really put a damper on the events.

Funny thing...the second shower (at Y's house) didn't happen because the baby came so early and he was so sick that year. This couple...who knew the party had been cancelled and knew the baby was early, went to Y's house anyhoo at the appointed time. They were fortunately not home (Y) so no sucking up was able to take place. We never did see that other gift and the guy was let go a few months later for other reasons...good riddence. I just hate people like that, but for added reasons in this case because they made happy events into such a stress for me and my husband.

Oh dear I'm ranting LOL Ok I'm glad I got that off my chest :oP

Funkart, I understand you would never host a party and expect guests to pay, and personally neither would I.

However it's not about what I, you, or Ajsmama or anybody else would ever do or not do, it's about what the bride/groom and their family have chosen to do. They have chosen to celebrate the marriage/wedding events in this fashion.

So no matter how I feel about it, or what I think-it's not my place to say. I would either graciously except my invite and honor their wishes for their event or respectfully not go at all.

Why get upset and fuss over something that's not my business anyway? It only creates drama and would be a waste of my time and energy.

Yep. This "pay-as-you-go" showers (some are co-ed and others are female/male) appear to the norm these days! Most are held to raise money for the actual wedding expenses -- or even to cover other things like the honeymoon etc. Now -- I've been to one Jack/Jill shower in our own family where we "paid" to get in -- and there were casino-type games and you paid for your own drinks etc.

And frankly -- I don't agree with paying admission for a party. And then giving a shower gift. And then giving a wedding gift. Plus the expense of simply going to the wedding.

Jan

Funkyart, oops sorry I typed your name incorrectly.

Goldust, I agree with you as well, great example by the way and your parent joke was cute.

Ajsmama, Sorry about the coffee urn situation. As far as the party, no one can tell you to go or not go, you have to decide for yourself. However if you do choose to go, I think Golddust's advice should be something to heavily consider.

Oops, I did it again with Golddust, sorry must not be my night. :)

We really don't want to go (have another family BBQ just a couple weeks before - the other side of family, I think we'll have had enough by then, this one is right b4 Labor Day and start of school). Just wondering if we *had* to, esp. given that I'm old enough to be the groom's mother and we *are* going to the wedding.

OK, the judgment is coming in b/c even though these types of showers are the norm here, I've never heard of the guests being asked to bring food as well as buy tickets. Like I said, DH has been to plenty of stag parties that he's bought tickets for, but even though they were for my male cousins, we've never been asked to bring a dish, much less provide X lbs of chicken or a cold cut platter (or contribute to the cost of said items). And the raffle item donation request was the icing on the cake!

I just got the urn b/c someone was looking for one for family reunion - kept it at my parents' b/c there wasn't much sense in schlepping it 100 mile each way when the events that it was needed at were all near their house. I should have gotten it when we moved. Then we'd have it for these events. I really don't know why my mom got rid of it. Even a small family party is 20-25 adults - we could have used it on the 4th.

Ajsmama, You almost never "have" to do anything, you usually have a choice-it's if you feel you should attend or not attend, only you can answer that.

It sounds like you really don't want to go, which is fine, and completely your choice.

Does spending time passing judgment somehow change the situation?

Does not matter what everyone else is doing or not doing, or did at one time, or thinks they should do- This is what they are doing, end of story.

I would either go along with it, respectfully for your family, or don't go.

It's out of your control, and not your headache to bear, so why take it on? I don't think it's worth getting up set over something you can't change.

Instead maybe focus on your life, go out or stay in, do something fun and productive with your husband and your children/pets if you have any. :)

For a wonderful look at a wonderful homemade wedding ...........

Jan

Here is a link that might be useful: This Young House blog

roo do you not conform to any social graces? Many of us do, so aj's questions are fairly normal for those who actually think etiquite is still important. I'm sorry if it's a frivilous focus in your mind...but still for many it is.

Back to the original issue :oP I'm going to another social gauff party this weekend as well ajs so I feel for you. I got a call about a bridal shower on Saturday. I said "oh gosh I must of missed the invitation in the mail" she said "no we're not sending them...too much of a hassle" Well it's a hassle to schlep down to REI and buy you a gift as well but I'm willing to make that effort....how about a little bit of paper so I can remember what time the dang thing is (oh and with two days notice we have to wear a costume as well!)

Manners matter dang it. If we quit getting upset about this goober gad only knows we'll just end up making a monthly "gift" donation and not bothering to actually visit anyone or celebrate like adults verses 12 year old girls who plan a slumber party TONIGHT!

I'm going...but for your party, you don't sound particularly attached...skip it and enjoy the day :) I personally wouldn't go myself to a party I had to pay for. If I'm going to pay 25 bucks a head I want some booze and to at least see elmo dance on stage half naked....

"funkyart wrote:
I think both of you are missing the point-- or maybe not. Either way, I would never and will never host a party and tell someone they must give a financial gift and it must be THIS much. It's one thing to do it as a fundraiser-- another to do it for your own benefit (or for your kids, sister, etc). If the family cared about celebrating the event over and above all else, they'd not address the issue of gifts-- let alone demand a specific amount.
It's a tacky trend-- if it is a real trend at all."
Amen! And, sorry, but I did not read all the replies. I dare not, for fear of getting my panties in a huge bunch if anyone is sympathetic with this greedy, horridly offensive manner of hosting a shower. Never mind the long forgotten rule that, in the first place, family members do not host these gift giving events...sheesh. Flame me all you will, but I remain steadfastly old fashioned re. these things. Do not go. Do RSVP, and do give a wedding gift.

Igloochic, LOL, is this how drama starts on threads? No need to get upset at me, I completely welcome and respect your difference of opinion.

My point to Ajsmama was that she shouldn't feel that she has to stress, or get upset over something that she can't control or change, what would be the point? It's just a party, not a disaster- there are far worse things in this world than a party planned and executed in poor taste.

Yes I agree with you, as a host I would never expect my guests to pay, however it's not my party, so I feel I should respect their decision to plan it differently from how I would've, however right or wrong it may seem to me.

I think it's commendable that when it's your party, you are a wonderful host and that you are always mindful of others and their feelings with such great social grace.

Leahcate-thank you for your honesty about not reading all the posts. I can't speak for others on this board but I would never flame you just because your opinion is different from mine or others-difference of opinion is a good thing because this is after all a discussion/ conversation board.

I actually agree with you and think that parties where the guests are required to pay is in very poor taste. I'm not defending them, I'm merely pointing out that right or wrong it's their party, so they are going to plan it how they like.

Since they are going to do what they want, which they have a right to do, tacky or worse, why let yourself be bothered by it if there's nothing you can do? -that's all I meant by what I said.

roo they need an edit form in this forum....I didn't mean to say that quite how it came off :) Please forgive that. I was just trying to say that some people do stress about this stuff because it's sort of an etiquite thing...ohhh heck I can't say it right...anyhoo I was trying to support ajsmom in her stress because it's a legit feeling to have :) You probably didn't mean to sound preachy and that was kind of how I read it...so please again, forgive me jumping to conclusions and then not doing such a good job speaking back :) I'm having cramps today and it's hot and smoky...no time for drama :o)

AJSMAMA: I'm sorry that I didn't answer the question you really just wanted answered.

I think that even though there are plenty of misgivings about this type of shower, I think you ought to go. Bring your coffee urn and some dessert (brownies, lemon bars, those quick-bake things--whatever's on sale at the store!), and enjoy your extended family's company for a couple of hours. (But practice that "let's get out of here" signal with your DH!)

Try to put the feelings about a J&J aside. (And then, considering everybody's budgetary constraints today, I would spend less on the wedding gift--without guilt!)

OK, I was stressing over whether we should go, but I've decided we won't. Hopefully the fact that it is over an hour away will be enough of an "excuse", esp. since DD is such a bad traveler (I won't ask my mom to babysit for this one - I'll let her go LOL!).

I didn't mean to start such drama. Yes, it's tacky, but it's become the norm around here (I don't think a coed fundraiser is any more tacky than a male-only). This one is just over and above given the request for donations of food and raffle items on top of the tickets. Pay $50 and drive 2 -3 hours round trip to go eat our own food and have a chance to win back our own stuff? No thanks. It's not like it's a fundraiser for someone with cancer.

Igloo - I think we should politely decline to attend any function that would normally involve gift-giving unless the invitation is in writing (I'm undecided about email) delivered at least a week in advance. Spur-of the moment slumber parties or BBQs are fine, as long as they're not at my house (at least until I get the bathrooms finished LOL). Unless *I'm* the one issuing the invitation for the sleepover (I have done this, but restrict it to 1 night, 2 kids max, preferably 1) ;-)

Great! I think you have made a sound choice. It does sound a little over the top.

Better to have drama here than in your family. LOL!

Igloo-no worries, it's cool, sometimes, my writing comes off preachy :), we're human, we all stress from time to time and I am sorry your body is beating you up.

Ajsmama-good for you on making the right decision for you. :)
You didn't start drama, your choosing to stay at home and use that time to spend with your immediate family rather than extended and you cared about something enough to let it bother you, but if there's nothing you can do, hopefully you only let it bother you for a little while.

This is an event that would make Miss Manners not just spin in her grave but achieve escape velocity.

I agree that Miss Manners would be horrified, but since she (Judith Martin) is very much alive, there will be no grave spinning over this.

I wonder if this idea of "paying" guests came from the trend of retail establishments referring to their customers as guests. I don't know why Target insists that I pay for items if I am their guest, because it is tacky to ask an actual guest to pay.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miss Manners in the Washington Post

Since they are going to do what they want, which they have a right to do, tacky or worse, why let yourself be bothered by it if there's nothing you can do?

I really felt she was just venting here, and hey, most of us feel the need to do that from time to time.
:-)

My apologies for mixing up Miss Manners with Emily Post, who died in 1960.

However, I'm still gobsmacked that this sort of madness is becoming "the norm". If you don't have the cash you're not good enough to come to the party, eh? [cynic] I suppose that would be an effective way for some people to weed out the "socially unacceptable" among their family and social circle. [/cynic]

Thanks AJen. It was part vent and part looking for a way out. I'll still take suggestions on that, but may not be necessary. It looks like not many from our side of family are going.

I asked my mom if she was going, she said no and volunteered that her other sister and her kids weren't going either b/c it was the baby's bday, we started talking (OK, golddust, it won't go past my mom, I just asked if they were sending something since they weren't going, and should I b/c I felt uncomfortable with this, she said her sister - groom's mom - is very embarrassed that brides' family is doing this and asking her to send email requests to our side of family). Anyway, the 2 of us decided that since so far it looks like the only members of groom's family going to J&J are in the wedding party, that we should have a shower for the bride locally. We just have to ask my cousin who is in wedding party to host it as both of us have construction going on in our houses these next few months, and it would be inappropriate to have the future MIL (my aunt) host it. My mom will ask her sister for guest list and theme/gift suggestions as they will *not* be setting up a household of their own for a while, and probably still have things from their old house. We were thinking perhaps a "Pamper the Bride" party with spa gift certificates, etc. as suggested gifts or, if she can find out if a honeymoon is being planned (she suggested maybe that's what the J&J $ was going toward) or not, perhaps we can all chip in to get a certificate for a weekend at a resort or B&B or something so they can have time to themselves, even in the future if they've already made plans to go away right after the wedding.

It's too hard to plan this on short notice (esp. with work being done on houses and my siblings coming for overlapping visits, we're going to be shuffling them from house to house and postponing the bulk of the work until August), and we don't want to try to steal any thunder from the J&J, my mom will mention it before that (end of August) to see what others think of the idea and maybe get some help with menu (she will do finger sandwiches like we had for my sister's shower, I will do cake) but we will plan on it for mid-late Sept (mid-Oct wedding). We were thinking this would be nice since many of us won't be going to the J&J, make it very small and intimate (just the groom's mom, 3 aunts, 5 female cousins plus the bride's mom). Any suggestions for gift ideas given the living arrangements (I don't know if they would still like their own sheets and towels?) are appreciated.

Great save! Gracious way to get out of "the fundraiser." Hehehe.

You held this in the very best way you could have held it. You are giving an example of how it should be done without making a stink in the family. Way to take the high road. (((Applause!))) You will be the matriarch of good example.

Ajsmama, I also think that is the nicest and most gracious way of handling this. Good for you!!!!!

I once put together a gift basket that had pampering for the bath as a theme. There were candles (even ones for floating in the bath), lotions, soaps, good books, soft towels, nail scissors, romantic CDs..... there are lots of things that people can contribute that won't break anyone's budget. A larger ticket item could be a beatiful robe.....

Just an idea for the "pampering" theme.

Like quite a few others, I'm just astounded at the entire original premise. IMO, this is not a party, shower or any other type of 'gathering'. This is just money grubbing using friends and relatives as the targets (AKA suckers).

However, having said that unfortunately another etiquette faux pas seems to be brewing:

"We were thinking perhaps a "Pamper the Bride" party with spa gift certificates, etc. as suggested gifts"

It is not considered polite to ask, suggest, hint or order ANY gift for a celebration. Nope, none. The idea of a party is that you are inviting people for the pleasure of their *company*, and if they choose to bring something, why what a delightful and thoughtful surprise.

I'm sorry but to be blunt, today's social norms seem to have veered so far into the acquisitive, greedy arena that many people don't even seem to have any understanding of what the original purpose was, or how to hold or attend events. All of this business of 'covering a plate' cost of gifts, of asking for cash, of soliciting money to do X or Y (set up a house, go on a honeymoon). It's disgusting and discouraging.

Again, my opinion. Worth what you paid to read it :).

Ann

The idea of a party is that you are inviting people for the pleasure of their *company*, and if they choose to bring something, why what a delightful and thoughtful surprise.

I'm not disagreeing with this, but maybe you could think of it as a themed shower following along the lines of being registered at a store. And from a practical standpoint, I really like knowing that my gift is wanted and useful.

Oops, we were just brainstorming for a theme since we didn't know if they're even registered. Kind of like we asked everyone to bring a recipe to my sister's shower so we could fill a recipe box, though of course those weren't gifts. People could choose to buy a gift related to the theme or not - or even decide to put together a joint gift basket. It's just really hard trying to figure out what to give as a gift when the couple doesn't even have their own place.

All this is moot, though - I checked the envelope with the wedding invitation, there was a small card with their URL on it folded in the directions, so they do have registries set up at BB&B and Target.

They are registered for the usual china, flatware, cookware, small appliances etc. (I'm surprised - maybe they are planning on moving out and haven't told his parents yet? Or else my aunt would have mentioned something to my mom? Then again, she never mentioned the registry/website.). So maybe the same thing we did for my sister - filling a recipe box with everyone's favorite recipes - would be appropriate instead?

Wow. Kind of stunned at this type of gig. Thank heavens my eldest DD (MOH) is going to have a more 'traditional' shower for her sister. It never would have crossed our minds to do anything like this! I've been to co-ed showers, but we were always the guest, and the hosting party provided the food, drinks, etc.

DD1 was thinking of asking DD2's future MIL if she could have the shower at their place, which is out of town. That way they, and the OOT guests would not have to travel twice for the pleasure of celebrating the wedding. Of course DD1..who is hosting the shower, is paying for all the food/drinks/favors (with my financial help). The shower 'theme' is more or less about the bride, likely her truseau (sp), since the groom doesn't want to be a part of the shower.

First, I commend you for your generous thought of hosting a shower yourself! Also, Ann, I so agree with this from you:
"I'm sorry but to be blunt, today's social norms seem to have veered so far into the acquisitive, greedy arena that many people don't even seem to have any understanding of what the original purpose was, or how to hold or attend events."
So now I'm gonna vent, as this greed includes, IMO, the proper, but 'ginormous', affairs that showers have become. They were once limited to family and close friends...about 25 guests, tops. Now it's necessary to have numerous hosts just to afford the thing, and if gifts are opened it's a ridiculous bore. When they are not, it feels just rude and wrong. It's not uncommon to see showers of 40-50 guests that include co-workers and mere associates. All the food, the cake, the work...it's insane, and not the sweet, intimate affair it was in days of not so terribly long ago. Therefore, I think it's fine if ajsmama wants to host a shower for the family and friends who (ahem) cannot) attend the Gimmie shower. No theme required, as they are registered and any guests WHO INQUIRE! can be so informed. I just can't wait to how how the bride and groom will handle their thank you's.....as if!
btw... ..not to say I have any problem with multiple showers, as long as those invited are also invited to the wedding. thank you ajm for giving me this space to vent! Good luck!

@johnmari--my husband is a chef, and he and all of his friends catered our wedding reception, 25 years ago. Who knew we were trend setters? It was a typical WASP wedding, in Oyster Bay. Not quite enough food, way too much liquor.

If the family won't hate you forever, don't go to the BYOC (Bring Your Own Checkbook) shower, but do go to the wedding.

Sigh ...I don't know what to do now. My mom talked to the aunt who is going to her grandbaby's (1st? I forget) bday instead of J&J, mentioned a smaller shower in Sept for our side since she and her sons (and 1 DIL) will obviously not make it. Auntie said she wasn't interested and didn't think DIL would be either. We assume the cousin who is in wedding party, her parents, and her sister will be going to J&J (and maybe that cousin wouldn't want to host a shower in her home even if we did the cooking and invitations). So, that leaves 1 female cousin in the state who I'm sure is not going to the J&J but might not want to go to any shower at all (might not be invited to wedding?), and 1 aunt/uncle who *might* possibly be going to J&J, though she would be glad to help out (not host) with another small shower, she's so sweet. All the rest of the cousins live out of state. So don't know if it's worth having one - nothing worse than planning a party and having no one show up!

On the other hand, my mom says 80+ tickets have been sold to the J&J. I still don't want to go (esp. don't want to go with such a mob!), but thought I could send something as a gift and let them decide whether to keep it or raffle it off? My mom offered to send 1 lb of kielbasa though she's not going, and the bride's mother responded that 3 would be better. So now my mom's just thinking of giving her sister a check to help cover the expenses and not sending anything (food or other). I could do the same. My poor aunt...my mom says that no, the couple is not moving out, they can't afford to, the only reason she can think of that they're registered for china and pots and pans and household items is b/c "it's traditional" and the bride wants a traditional white wedding even though they have an untraditional life...I'm so confused! As I said to her, if they plan on storing this stuff, the appliances will be out of warranty before they move, and the china is usually delivered in a gift box (per place setting), not a big sturdy moving box. They did register for luggage, I think I'll give that as wedding gift b/c even if they can't afford vacation(s) they can always use it when they move LOL!

My sister's getting married soon, and didn't want to offend anyone so she has something like 10 bridesmaids, all of whom are going in on the bachelorette party. We tossed various ideas around, but in the end DS decided she wanted a potluck at someone's house -- low cost, low key, a little Guitar Hero, a lot of friends.

One of the bridesmaids got her panties in the aforementioned bunch about this, because she thought it was tacky. Her idea? to ask every guest to contribute $25 to the party so that Bridesmaidzilla could go spend lots of money on frozen appetizers at Costco and Trader Joe's. Really weird. She insulted my sister about her preference for a mellower party, and said people would be angry about being asked to bring a dish. Really? as angry as they would be about being expected to contribute $25, plus a wedding present the next day?

Bridesmaidzilla has retreated back under her rock, and the potluck is going to happen, and all is well and mellow. But we're all planning to de-friend her on Facebook the minute the wedding's over. (:

80 guests at a shower? good gravy

The one I went to today had I don't know 40?.....many friends, most from their church and I'm sure many like me who barely knew the girl (she's the sister of my husband's friend).

I'm old fashioned...I think showers should be intimate parties with close family and friends. There should not be significant time spent on prayer and witnessing (ok perhaps that's just my shower) :oP But really...the one baby shower we did have had about 15 couples all of whom we had a close connection with. Sure we did have a few "have to" people (staff mostly) but not people who aren't even sure of our names (I didn't know which sister was getting married for this one).

Another girlfriend wants to throw us a shower with this baby/babies since our showers were mostly cancelled. I did the others because the people who wanted to do them really did want to do them from the bottom of their hearts and to refuse the gift of their love would be wrong. But geeze I don't want the drama again. DH had an idea tonight...I love it, but since we're on the subject of what's tacky....If you were invited to a shower that said "The parents request either no gifts, or if you'd like to purchase a gift, please bring it unwrapped to be donated to XYZ Named Baby House" (A charity for young mothers of low income here in our town).

Wrong? RIght???? Gad I hate this crap. I think I'll move LOL

Hey I have an idea...let's just send ajsmom 25 bucks and call it a wrap :oP

Since they already have $2000 promised, I mean 80 people showing up, lol, then I think it's fine to stay home and simply send a gift.

I'm just glad I live in a place where there are no such things, unless it's the J&J shower mentioned above where both bride and groom get gifts together.

Here we have big weddings, but simple showers. I hosted a shower for my DIL for our side of the family and friends my son grew up with, because she's from "out of town." No one cared that I was "family" and throwing the shower. We had a great time! My DIL brought the cake and I paid her back, I made punch, had dip and chips, and she got to know people and now she's formed lasting friendships with them.

Her family and friends threw her a shower in her hometown, that way people don't have to travel all over the state.

The only "tradition" for these little showers (about 20 people), is the groom shows up right before it ends and says hello to all the girls, and thanks them, and takes the bride home. It's really sweet. :)

I'm glad to be an Okie. :) But I tell ya, if someone did send me an invite like that, I too would be peeved.

My mom offered to send 1 lb of kielbasa though she's not going, and the bride's mother responded that 3 would be better. So now my mom's just thinking of giving her sister a check to help cover the expenses and not sending anything (food or other). I could do the same.

ajsmama - I think you are needlessly getting wrapped up in this. The groom's mother may have to participate more fully in all this, but you and your mother (his grandmother) do not need to finance this shower in any way. You are adding to the war chest of what is already a well-funded party. Send your regrets and save your money.

"She insulted my sister about her preference for a mellower party, and said people would be angry about being asked to bring a dish. Really? as angry as they would be about being expected to contribute $25, plus a wedding present the next day?"

Well, actually IMO there are two wrongs here. How about option #3: have a party without asking people to bring their own food OR contribute money. If the group is large and finances or effort are a consideration you could do something like a tea or mid-day snack affair, or even cocktails and appetizers after dinner...to be completely honest I think both a potluck and asking for money are really not appropriate. But that's only my take. Walkin, sounds like your sister has figured out what works for her and is moving forward.

And graywings, totally agree with your take. AJs, you have been writing about how stressed and busy your life is right now. And throwing yourself into a not-immediate family member's elaborate plans probably is only stressing you more. Something I've come to realize as I grow older and hopefully wiser is that especially with large group events--nobody really will care or miss someone who doesn't show up, unless they are integral to the activity. If the groom misses the wedding, THAT's a problem. If a relative misses the 80+ attended shower, not so much :).

Ann

With 80 people, they sure won't miss me. But should I send food, a donation for the raffle (as requested), a shower gift, or a check (to my aunt, not the couple or the "hostess")? Or nothing? I don't really know what's appropriate, my aunt has been put upon so much and now I'm getting stressed out over a shower to which I'm not going. Normally if I could not make a bridal shower to which I was invited, I would either send a small gift or just spend more on the wedding gift. Being asked to "contribute" to this one has me in a quandry.

Igloo - about the baby shower - if you would like to celebrate but don't want gifts, I think your idea of donating to charity is fine. Another idea (rather than asking people to pick gifts to donate) is to find out what the shelter (?) needs - they may need disposable diapers more than anything! You could do a "diaper shower" where everyone just brings a box of diapers, wipes, whatever. We've done "book showers" where everyone brings the new mom a favorite children's book.

My opinion..

You mentioned a coffee pot; Target has the "party perks" $35 - $40 for 36 & 42 cup. If you feel you need to do something, contribute one and be done with it. See if someone will go in on it with you, then you might be able to get a large can of Maxwell House coffee, bag of sugar & cups.

I don't understand why they are charging plus asking for dishes; it should be one or the other but I don't know the brides parents situation and what they plan to do with the cash. I do wonder if they are asking for dishes from relatives or closest friends & not everyone coming.

If you google Jack & Jill showers or couple showers there are tons of pages/articles on how to host one. From what I read yes, tickets can be sold with the money paying to host the event; none of the articles I read mentioned doing both; which is tacky IMO. If I felt I had to attend, I would consider my "ticket" as well as my dish (plus time to cook) the gift to the couple and would not buy a gift; I couldn't afford to. Times are tough right now.

I don't feel that another shower is necessary since there appears to be a lot of people attending.

Ajsmama, I would just decline the invitation and spend a little more on their wedding gift. It sounds like they don't really want shower or wedding gifts, so just write them a check for their wedding and be done with it.

I did have a chuckle about your mom offering 1 lb of Kielbasi - honestly, that is like offering a pound of hamburger to a barbeque, but truly don't mean any offense - but to your overwrought Aunt it was like throwing a cup of water on the house fire.

Just let it go, with 80 people there, you will not be missed.

Running, I think what you're saying is correct when referring to a shower or party in honor of the bride/groom. But Walkin was talking (nice rhyme!) about a bachelorette party which is usually funded by the bridesmaids - not the bride. So it sounds like Walking's sister was trying to keep expenses down and instead of doing a limo or a dinner out or drinks at many bars, she thought it would be less intrusive on her bridesmaids to do a small potluck and stay home.

Sounds nice to me, and offers far less opportunities for bachelorette party temptations!!! Hey Chippendale dancers, where are you????

But should I send food, a donation for the raffle (as requested), a shower gift, or a check (to my aunt, not the couple or the "hostess")?

NO, NO, NO, and NO. Send your regrets.

If you are not attending the event, proper etiquette says you are not obligated to send a gift.

In defense of my mom, she probably thought that *both* sides of the family, not just the groom's, were being asked to send/bring food, so that if they needed X kielbasas, Y lbs of chicken, etc. that someone else would contribute another one (or perhaps two, if they were attending).

Thanks everyone - I will not send anything, I will buy them a nice set of luggage for a wedding gift, and I will ask my aunt if she needs help with anything *locally* (wedding will be catered, but maybe she needs someone to pick up the flowers from the florist, cake from bakery, whatever).

Learned a new word today. Thanks auntjen. (craptaculary) There are sooo many ways I can use it.

Never heard of J&J showers but if the word fits, wear it. I think one bridal shower, baby shower, etc., etc. is more than enough. Anything else is a blatant request for money or gifts. Of course I'm old school. I think second weddings should be at least a little toned down but, nowadays, the second is sometimes more extravagant than the first.

we're all planning to de-friend her on Facebook the minute the wedding's over

chuckle chuckle chuckle
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proper etiquette says you are not obligated to send a gift

Sorry, but this story has gone way beyond the bounds of any such thing.

AJM, I am inclined to say that it almost doesn't matter what you do. There is no way to win with this situation. Do it all, and you will feel crappy. Do some of it and it will never be enough. It's a black hole. Maybe send a check...because you can do it this afternoon, get it over with and move on.

"But Walkin was talking (nice rhyme!) about a bachelorette party which is usually funded by the bridesmaids - not the bride. So it sounds like Walking's sister was trying to keep expenses down and instead of doing a limo or a dinner out or drinks at many bars, she thought it would be less intrusive on her bridesmaids to do a small potluck and stay home. "

Oh well. Never mind.

Roseanne Rosanad(ann)a :)

Ajasmaman, I think your decision makes a lot of sense. Sometimes, we just have to 'opt out' of events that become too complex or too big or too ugly.

For the person who wants to put No Gifts on an invitation, common etiquette dictates that the mere mention of gifts on an invitation is poor manners. I don't know, sometimes clarity is good manners. But one thing I have seen done is to send an invite with rsvp., and make sure that the person accepting the rsvps tells each one........please come but the couple do not want any gifts, they only want you!

And finally.......adults have to make choices in life. You go to a restaurant, you choose a meal, not 3 meals. You get an invitation to a party in town on Saturday or a wedding in a city 4 hours away on Saturday, you have to choose which to attend. You choose to marry your longtime love, you can't ALSO marry your friend next door at the same time. You have to consider your options and decide what fits your circumstances, your preferences, and your budget. You must choose. If you decide to move in with your fiance and go to school, then, perhaps you should forego the big wedding that is traditional for the bride and groom in love who want to marry and be together. It's selfish and a burden to others to try to have it all.....register for things you don't need, save your own money while Demanding money from friends and relatives, etc. If you are truly an adult, you realize this. When people act selfishly and childishly, sometimes the kind and practical thing is to ignore their selfish wants and just do what seems reasonable to us.
Dear Amy in the paper this week had an ugly little couple who decided, not too long before their big, planned wedding, that they did not care very much for each other after all. They didn't want to cancel the wedding, so they planned to quietly annul the ceremony after the wedding. And that's what they did. But then, horrors! The bride's uncle decided that he wanted his lovely wedding present returned. This caused quite a stir since the Adorable Bride and Suave Groom had divided their loot equally after their big party and the Groom did not want to return Uncle's Bread-machine. Adorable Bride said that this was causing so much trouble and Uncle was so mad...........The Lovely Couple felt that the Presents were a partial 'Reparation' for all the wedding money spent by them on their unsuspecting guests.
Do you not wish YOU could be best friends forever with this sweet pair?

Red

Red - I can't *believe* someone could be so crass as that young couple!

DH and I eloped so I never registered. He was going to move in with me when he got out of the Army and before he started college, though it was only going to be a couple of months we were engaged so just figured we'd go to JP to make it legal and have ceremony/celebration later. Well, he started school in one state in January and I did not get a job there til July, he was driving 1000 miles round trip every w/e to see me and our phone bills were horrendous. I was thinking we should just annul. But it worked out, 3 months after I moved we had a very small "renewal of vows" ceremony in church across the street from my parents' and took 23 people (incl his parents and 2 of his sisters who flew up from TX) to dinner. His dad got to see the ocean for the first and only time - he died a month later. If we had waited until we were sure we'd be living in the same state again (after living together for 2 months in a 1-BR apt then separating so he could go to school) to plan a big wedding, it would have been probably another 6 mos - 1 yr and his dad would not have been able to be there. We shocked everyone by getting married only a week after we announced our engagement (so we didn't have e-party or shower either!), and I would never have the "guts" to have a huge wedding and registry and expect gifts after doing that, but I didn't want to live with him even for 2 months without benefit of marriage. And then when it turned into a 1st anniversary before we could put anything together, it just seemed ridiculous to even consider registering - my mom just told people as they RSVPd that we really didn't need anything since I'd been on my own for 8 yrs. Some people gave us gifts, some checks, and some people like my ILs were a gift in themselves, just to make the effort to be there.

DH had just the 4 on his side of the family, my uncle (who DH had lived with until he found a place on campus with 2 other guys) was his best man. Only 1 of my siblings was there, my mother's sisters and their DHs, my father's parents and some of his aunts and uncles I was closest to, incl. my godmother (his aunt) and my beloved godfather (his other aunt's DH), all now deceased. I think that to this day my father's brothers resent not being invited along with their teenagers, but I was trying to keep it small b/c most of DH's family wouldn't be able to make it (and the fact that we had *no* money!). We were also able to spend more time with the people we loved the most than we would have had if we had had a large reception with all the inherent craziness.

Yes, sometimes I regret not having had the "traditional" wedding, but even if we had waited, I wouldn't have wanted to go into debt to have a party. And we wouldn't have wanted to wait til DH was out of college. So we did what we did, we managed on my salary and his summer jobs, the summer he graduated we bought a condo at auction and fixed it up, sold it 2 years later, bought a house, started a family - you know, all the usual "traditional" stuff even with that unconventional beginning.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't get married while you're in school (DH was, my DB was when he married first wife in her parents' back yard - in fact, his 2nd wife he married outside too LOL). I'm not saying that you should be as cheap as we were. But I think there has to be *some* consideration of practical matters such as ahem finances and what the heck are you going to do with all this stuff you're asking people to buy you when you're living (with your spouse and your 2 dogs - of course, I don't think the dogs are restricted to the BR) in your old BR in your parents' house?

Of course, I'm old-fashioned in thinking that if you bothered to earn a degree (or two) in a field that you might actually try working in that field (if only to earn $ while you figure out what you *really* want to do) before deciding to start your education all over in a different field?

Anybody remember when you were expected to be a self-sufficient (barring an accident or layoff or something) adult - if not a *parent* - by the time you were 30? Well, they have a couple more years...

End of rant - sorry, just had to get that off my chest.

Ugh, I am not going to even read this thread any more. Thank you all for your support, but just reading this gets me more upset thinking of how badly my aunt and uncle are being treated by their son and his fiancee. Of course, they're letting themselves be taken advantage of, but as a parent I know how hard it is to deny your child anything. I just hope I haven't spoiled my kids already to be this thoughtless 20 years from now....

Today we went to bday party for 3yr old, mom was sighing that she'd lost track of who gave what since dad was helping open, a friend said "oh, don't bother sending thank you's - save the postage - we know you appreciate everything" I didn't say anything, a 3-yr old is a little young to write thank you cards, but silently I was congratulating the mom for having her 5 yr old send them a few months ago for his party. I think my kids started at 2 or 3, even if it was just to scribble something or put a sticker on a card that I wrote. Now I'm getting really OT (or maybe not?). I'm rambling, need to go to bed.

Please just let this thread die so I'm not tempted to come back and read it, then get all upset again. Right now I'm just tempted to send a check and not even go to the wedding. Thanks again everyone for letting me know that civilization does still exist in tiny pockets all over the world (or at least GW!).