Ia agree that a heat pump is ideal for your daughter - good climate plus cheap electric rates.

Get at least 3 quotes for the heat pump. A good installation is more important than brand name. Make sure that the ducts are cheacked for air leaks especially if they run in the attic.

FYI: Cooling costs are determined by the Energy Efficiency Ratio (EER) and not SEER. Whichever SEER rating she gets, get a 12 EER minimum. Heating costs are determined by HSPF (Heating Seasonal Performance Factor). 8.5 HSPF is good, 9 is excellent. In my opinion, a 14 SEER (12 EER) provides the best combination of purchase price and true operating costs.

Back-up electric strips will be required in the air handler for when the heat pump needs auxillary heat. Her house may need an electric upgrade for these electric strips if the present wiring can't support the current draw of the strips. She may be OK, its just a heads-up.

Make sure that the model numbers of both the heat pump condenser (outside unit) and air handler (inside unit) are written on the quote. This will avoid the possibility of the "bait and switch".

Best to you and your daughter.

Is she using Propane or natural gas ? and how much are YOU paying for electricity per KWH ?
I believe that a heat pump will probably be cheaper than propane, but not cheaper than natural gas.
Where is the combustion air coming from ?

She uses natural gas. I'm not sure what the KWH rate is.We get it from Appalachian Power which I understand has lower than average rates. I assume the combustion air comes from inside the house. The closet housing the furnace is right in the middle of the house. Other than the vent pipe which goes stright up thru the roof, I don't see any other air connections. Thanks for the replys.

You might check the insulation below the floor and attic, you may not have enough. The bulk of your losses would be via the attic. Also I assume the combustion air comes from the home, this kills the efficiency.

Have a service person or contractor come out and check the gas flame, it it has any more yellow in the flame then the very tips it needs adjusting and is sucking up lots of gas that is not getting burnt. Also ask the service person if a automatic flue damper would help, it did a lot for me.

I heat a bit over 6000 Sq Feet (~70F)in Michigan for about 1/5 the cost per sq ft (85,000 BTU unt). I have a Train 19I heat pump. My gas last year ran about $350, that was with the old 100,000 BTU furnace.

Natural gas should be a lot cheaper than a heat pump which is electric. Depends upon your KWH price, some areas are really cheap if nuclear power is available.
You could weatherstrip the heater door and put a screened opening in the floor so combustion air is sucked from under the house if that is open to the outside, but if she has a basement that won't work. You would need to run a pipe to the outside thru the basement, but that would be a rather unusual setup.
Often times the gas company will come for free and check out your heater and situation in general.

Appalachian Power is AEP, same as the parent company of the power company that serves me, and in my area a heat pump is usually cheaper to run than a gas furnace. I just checked your power company's website and under their new (slightly higher) rates, you pay about 6.5 cents per kwh, which is well under the national average.

But I would not take the gas furnace out to have a heat pump put in, not until it's time to buy a new heating system anyway. The economics very rarely support switching fuels solely to take advantage of a lower rate. You have three or four high bills a year, maybe, and those bills are maybe $30 or $40 more than they would be for a heat pump. Big deal. That's a hundred bucks or so a year. A new system costs thousands. Plus, the fuel that's cheaper now may be more expensive in a few years.

I agree with the suggestion to have the furnace checked. I'd especially want to check the ductwork for leaks to the attic or crawl space, because those not only cause a loss of heated air, but they can also put pressure into an unheated space and push cold air into the house.

I'd also talk to her about operational habits, such as temperature settings, and whether the heat is turned down when people are at work, etc. A programmable thermostat is a small investment that can make for significant savings if it's used wisely.

I agree with ky114. He makes good points, especially about the ductwork and thermostat temperature settings. Same with GilSchutz about having the flame on the furnace checked, and I'd like to add to check the hi/low limits on the furnace air handler. If the furnace is cycling too often, it is running inefficiently.

Good luck.

I concur.

And... I hate using inside air for combustion.
See how much air is shooting out of the flue pipe ?
She spent money heating all that air only to have it blown outside the house.
That air has to be replaced or she will be living in a giant vacuum.
That replacement air is cold outside air that leaks in thru door and window jams or runs backwards down another flu pipe to get into the house. Makes the house feel drafty.
Then that makeup air has to be heated all over again.

Thanks for all the responses. The tip about inside air for combustion makes me wonder why I hadn't thought of that. I had heard before that a fireplace usually results in a net loss of heat because of the draft up the chimney. The house has a ventilated crawl space under. It wouldn't be difficult to make an opening in the floor.If the door to the furnace area was sealed, would there be sufficient air flow to prevent excessive heat build-up? It's a very small area. I was considering the heat pump alternative because her central air conditioning is beyond repair and will have to be replaced. The Trane company is advertising a special promotion of a free furnace or air handler when you buy the high efficiency XL16i "Home Comfort System". I haven't contacted them so I don't know if it's a good deal or not.

If you have to replace the a/c anyhow, then this is the time to look at a heat pump, but keep in mind Garyg's points above: If she goes with a heat pump, her electric service may be inadequate to handle the the auxiliary heat strips, necessitating a costly upgrade. One thing that may be worth considering would be a heat pump with dual fuel capability, so she could use the existing gas furnace for her auxiliary heat the heat pump when outside temps are warmer. Then she would not have to worry about electrical capacity, either. Around here I have seen quotes ranging down to just a few hundred dollars more for a dual fuel heat pump as compared to an a/c only.

"The Trane company is advertising a special promotion of a free furnace or air handler when you buy the high efficiency XL16i "Home Comfort System"."

- Nothing is ever free. The price is built in some how. If your daughter needs central a/c, now is the time to get a heat pump.

Note that the 16i uses a dual-stage compressor. 1st stage runs at 70% of rated capacity. 2nd stage runs at 100% capacity. Most heat pumps use a single stage compressor, the dual-stage is a step up in class and tech. Just because it is 16 SEER does not mean it is cheaper to run that a 14 SEER. It depends on the EER which depends on the matched indoor coil/furnace/air handler. Some 16i's are weak on EER (Dual-fuel (heat pump plus gas back-up) is a good idea because it provides options to switch heating fuels if utility prices change in the future. If your daughter is staying in the house for a long time (10 years), it's something to consider. If not, I would consider a lower cost straight heat pump.

You may be surprised at the cost of the 16i.

I recommend getting 3 quotes before the furnace breaks or before the cooling season starts. This way you are not making a rush decision in a crisis.

Best to you.

Tell me if this sounds right ;
I will compare natural gas to electricity for cost.
She pays .065 per KWH electricity.
I will use our local price for gas, $1.30 per therm assuming it will be very similar.

100,000 BTU (therm)
____________________ = 29.30 KWH per therm

3413 BTU (one KWH)

29.30 KWH X .065 = $1.90 for 100,000 BTU

If you are paying more than $1.90 per therm of gas then electricity is cheaper.

But W/ a heat pump is there some different math because it's not strait resistance heat ?

"But W/ a heat pump is there some different math because it's not strait resistance heat ?"

You have to include the efficiency, or in the case of a heat pump the Coefficient of Performance (COP) which changes with the outside temps.

Let's look at the price of 1,000,000 btu.

Natural gas at 80% efficient, $1.30 per therm:
(1,000,000 btu / 103,000 btu per therm)($1.30 per therm)/.8 = $15.77 for 1,000,000 btu

Heat pump at 20F (COP = 2.65), $.10 per kw-hr delivered:
(1,000,000 btu / 3413 btu per kw)($.10 per kw-hr)/2.65 = $11.05 for 1,000,000 btu.

Straight electric resistance heat at $.10 per kw-hr delivered:
(1,000,000 btu / 3413 btu per kw)($.10 per hw-hr)/1 = $29.30 for $1,000,000 btu.

Propane at $2.50 gallon, 80% efficient:
(1,000,000 btu / 86,000 btu per gallon)($2.50 per gallon)/.8 = $36.33 for 1,000,000 btu

Insert your own costs and efficiencies for more accurate pricing.

Note that the heat pump is 30% cheaper than gas, 62% cheaper than straight electric, and 70% cheaper than propane. The heat pump, however, will require back-up heat when the outside temperature drops below the balance point of the house (anywhere from about 22F to 32F). This additional cost is not included in the calc. Also, the heat pump will be cheaper to run as outdoor temps get higher (COP = 3.45 for 40F outside).

Take care.

There you have it.

Lots to think about. Thanks to all for the great input.

In an older, drafty not so well insulated house (single pane windows too I'll bet?) she is probably more comfortable with the gas heated air blowing around than she would be with a heat pump . . . . and as others have pointed out, it's very expensive to change just to lower your energy bills by $50 or $75 per month for 3 or 4 months

Are you absolutely sure she will still be living in the same house 5 or 10 years from now? That question needs to be answered before you spend $5K or more that you might not recoup at resale time

It might be cheaper to tighten up the envelope (better insulation above and below, thermopane windows, gasketed doors etc) which would probably net you about the same savings as going to a heat pump

Modern gas furnaces all use outside air for combustion and it shouldn't be too hard for you to run a 4 inch PVC pipe from the vented attic down into the furnace . . . . that will largely eliminate the cold air being drawn in all around the house when the furnace is running

Don

sorry i posted this but i can';t find it now. Do the electric bills include the cost of heating and the ost of other electrical appliances such as washer, dryer, stove refrigerator, etc.? I.e. If my electric bill is $200.00 is that for heating and eveyrthing else? Thanks.

Vahomebuyer, I assume you're looking at average bills for a house you're thinking of buying. You need to find out what fuel runs the various appliances and the heating system. If the house is all-electric, then the electric bill covers all the appliances you mentioned, as well as the heat. If there's gas service, then the heating is probably gas, as well as most likely the hot water heater, and maybe the stove and/or dryer.

The heat pump will in some areas qualify for a discounted rate on the electricity. Mine goes down a lot. They put a demand meter on the house and from 11:00 AM to 7:00 PM the cost is about 3-4X the off peak price.

I have Natural Gas as the axillary heat not resistance heat. This gives me a good backup. My changeover temperature is currently set at 20F (below 20F the gas heats).

AS far as the electrical you probably will need a 50A feed to the AC (check with supplier to be sure). Mine was wired properly 30 years ago so all I had to do was change the breaker.