I am so sad. He certainly had some flaws when he was younger but he dedicated his life to family and service in the second half of his life.

No tears from me. The man proved himself to be void of any character and integrity when, at 38 years old, he left Mary Jo Kopechne to drown in seven feet of water.

Is it the end of Camelot? I was born after JFK's death so I never experienced that Camelot-"mania". But if it is the end of Camelot, that is a good thing. There is a reason why the US doesn't have a monarchy.

Nicole

Well said, nigel.

I never understood how this man, who abandoned Mary Jo Kopechne to a death by drowning in an attempt to save his political career could continue to have supporters who kept his political career alive.
Had he stayed to try to help her or gone for help immediately, she might have been saved. But he didn't.

According to a diver called to the scene the next morning:

The diver, John Farrar, later testified at the inquest that Kopechne's body was pressed up in the car in the spot where an air bubble would have formed. He interpreted this to mean that Kopechne had survived for a while after the initial accident in the air bubble, and concluded that

" Had I received a call within five to ten minutes of the accident occurring, and was able, as I was the following morning, to be at the victim's side within twenty-five minutes of receiving the call, in such event there is a strong possibility that she would have been alive on removal from the submerged car.[8]

Kennedy was charged with leaving the scene of an accident that resulted in bodily injury and received a suspended sentence. Since when is a death merely bodily injury?

Enough said..

So much for...If you can't say something nice....

I thought he did go to her funeral? I saw pictures online of him there and thought he looked good.

I was too young to know about the accident; did hear about it at some point in the 70's or 80's & did not like what I read. I didn't realize he was that old when it happened.

It would be wishful thinking that he left something to be opened upon his death about the accident and if he did not it's possible his soul will never be at peace. I do hope he struggled with what he did every day of his life.

The picture I saw is the one linked below. He went to her house the day she died. I do see that he missed the funeral.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kennedy pic

Sorry no tears hear either for the reasons that were already stated. How he had the gall to sit in on the Clarence Thomas hearings made me sick.

I don't post much, but I do follow along. I'm a generation or so behind Ted Kennedy and I'm heartsick that he's dead; I feel that an era has passed. As the NYT said, he was a man of large flaws, (BUT, aren't we all?) I am so very thankful for his leadership on social causes, his veto on the Iraq war, and his fight for health care reform.

I never understood the camelot thing, also having been born after that era. Never understood Beatlemania either, even though I love their music.

He was a very influential politician; whether or not you take that as a negative or a positive (or both as I do) is your choice. I do remember when being endorsed by Ted Kennedy meant something much more than a media frenzy as when he endorsed Barrak Obama. It will be a long time before someone enjoys that kind of clout.

He gave his life to public service and was considered one of the best in the Senate.

RIP Teddy!

The Kennedy's are an example of privilege and power, and sadly it seems families like them use this power as a privilege to put them above the law in order to pursue their own objectives. I would like to think Ted Kennedy, as he aged and had time to reflect on his choices, felt true remorse for his actions and used his power for the betterment of mankind. Perhaps naive on my part, but that is how I choose to see it.

My take on Camelot was the buy in of the American public of the fairytale story, a time when America was less cynical and more hopeful. Of course evidence points to all sorts of "doings" with the Kennedy's. It seems like Jackie was the only true player in the Camelot mini-series.

When I heard the news, my first thought was of Joan and how she'd suffered so much. The miscarriages, his infidelities, the family dramas and tragedies, all took a great toll on her. I hope she finds peace.

He had demons like all of us, but the man left an indelible mark on American politics. He was a champion of the middle class. His list of legislative accomplishments is mind-boggling. No one has come close and probably never will.

This is a partial listed compiled by Robert Rummel-Hudson of Fighting Monsters with Rubber Swords.

"I'm bracing myself for the Conservative backlash against the commemorations already beginning in honor of Senator Edward Kennedy, who passed away last night. Those of you who feel like doing a little dance on the man's grave would be well advised to do it far away from me or my family, or any of the tens of thousands of families just like ours. Or, if you really look at it, probably families just like yours, too. I challenge any of you to show me a politician of either party within the last century whose legislative actions have done so much to help Americans, in ways that have a direct impact on their lives.

Here's a very short, woefully incomplete list of why I'm not particularly interested in hearing why you didn't care for Ted Kennedy. I'll bet you can find at least two pieces of legislation on this list, laws molded in part or entirely by Senator Kennedy, that have literally saved my daughter's future. Hers, and countless more just like her, both living and not yet even born.

1964: Head Start
-- Provided meals and early education to pre-school children through the Employee Opportunity Act. (Schuyler participated in a Head Start program when she was a baby. It was part of the early intervention program that probably saved her.)

1971: Federal Cancer Research Program
-- Quadrupled the amount of money spent by the federal government to fight cancer.

1972: Title IX
-- Demanded equal funding for men's and women's athletics on college campuses.

1975: Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)
-- Guaranteed free and appropriate public education to children with disabilities. (This is the law that provides for Schuyler's education, and for EVERY SINGLE CHILD WITH A DISABILITY in public schools in this country. Every single one of them. Think about that for just a moment.)

1978: Civil Rights Commission Act Amendments
-- Expanded the jurisdiction of the Civil Rights Commission to protect people from discrimination on the basis of disability.

1984: Improved Access to Polling Stations
-- Required polling stations to provide physical accessibility for physically disabled and elderly people on federal election days.

1986: Employment Opportunities for Disabled Americans Act
-- Allowed disabled workers to receive SSI benefits and Medicaid coverage.

1988: Fair Housing Act Amendments
-- Prohibited discrimination towards people with disabilities in the sale or rental of housing.

1989: National Military Child Care Act
-- Established the Department of Defense child care system.

1990: Americans with Disabilities Act
-- Prohibited discrimination against any qualified individual with a disability in job application procedures, hiring or discharge, compensation, advancement and training. (This is another big one for Schuyler and her friends. There are people in this country whose lives, and the quality of those lives, have been saved by this law. That's not even remotely an exaggeration.)

1990: Ryan White CARE Act
-- Provided assistance to states to develop effective and cost-efficient AIDS care programs, aimed particularly at early diagnosis and home care.

1993: National and Community Service Trust Act
-- Created AmeriCorps and the Corporation for National and Community Service to help expand volunteerism and education grants for students who choose to volunteer for service after college.

1993: Student Loans
-- Allowed students to borrow money for college directly from the federal government.

1994: Family and Medical Leave Act
-- Provided up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave for family emergencies or after the birth of infants.

1994: Crime Act
-- Secured funding for 100,000 new police officers, imposed new penalties for crimes involving gangs and firearms and authorized the Police Corps, a program to award college scholarships to students in return for a commitment to serve as police officers.

1996: Kennedy-Kassebaum Act
-- Enabled employees to keep health insurance after leaving their job and prohibited insurance companies from refusing to renew coverage on the basis of preexisting medical conditions.

1996: Mental Health Parity Bill
-- Eliminated limits on mental health coverage that differ from other covered illnesses.

1997: State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
-- Supported state efforts to provide health insurance to uninsured children in low-income families.

2000: Minority Health and Health Disparities Research and Education Act
-- Improved data systems and research on the extent and severity of minority health problems, and authorized significant resources to help enhance the delivery of health care to minorities.

2001: No Child Left Behind Act
-- Required more rigorous testing of public school students and permitted parents to transfer their children from low-performing to higher-performing schools. (Clearly I've had issues with the implementation of this law, but the philosophy behind it is sound, and even in its flawed state, it has helped a lot of kids with disabilities.)

2006: Family Opportunity Act
-- Provided states the opportunity to expand Medicaid coverage to children with special needs and allowed low- and middle-income families with disabled children the ability to purchase coverage under the Medicaid program.

-----

Senator Kennedy, on behalf of those who are unable to say it for themselves, thank you for your service to this country."

Here is a link that might be useful: Fighting Monsters with Rubber Swords

Thank you Natal!

As a woman from an Irish middle class working family from the North East in the 60's and 70's, I am saddened by the loss of this man. As mentioned, he had demons just as we all do, although he continued to work for the greater good of the "average" citizen. I can not imagine what the world would be like for my severely disabled institutionalized brother and hard working parents if it had not been for the efforts and success of Ted Kennedy.

I am grateful for his continuing ability to work hard for us all.

The link is below to the wiki page on it. It says this:

Discovery of the body

Earlier that morning, two amateur fishermen had seen the overturned car in the water and notified the inhabitants of the cottage nearest to the pond, who called the authorities at around 8:20 am.[14] A diver was sent down and discovered Kopechne's body at around 8:45 am.[15] The diver, John Farrar, later testified at the inquest that Kopechne's body was pressed up in the car in the spot where an air bubble would have formed. He interpreted this to mean that Kopechne had survived for a while after the initial accident in the air bubble, and concluded that
" Had I received a call within five to ten minutes of the accident occurring, and was able, as I was the following morning, to be at the victim's side within twenty-five minutes of receiving the call, in such event there is a strong possibility that she would have been alive on removal from the submerged car.[8] "

Farrar believed that Kopechne "lived for at least two hours down there.

To know he spent no time in jail for that makes me sick.
Yes, he did what appears to be a lot of good; but most people would have been in jail for that.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chappaquiddick incident

To know he spent no time in jail for that makes me sick.

I agree. But beyond that, what's your point? Maybe living with that demon motivated him to accomplish all that he did.

Thanks for the link, Natal. I forwarded it on to several folks.

natal, I agree about the demons. I was a young person when it happened and already had a negative opinion of the Kennedys personally (except for Robert), for their womanizing and drinking, even though I had a positive opinion (mostly, except for Vietnam) of their public work...but I've always thought that that death made him *wake up* and realize that he was capable of great dissolution and evil or great good. Our country will be forever lucky he chose good. Not everyone in his family did (e.g. William Kennedy Smith), but some did, e.g. Bobby Kennedy Jr., a personal hero of mine. Still, it sickens me that that one asinine night of idiocy (can I get more emphatic?) is probably responsible for the beginning of the end of this country, as Reagan won that election and began the dismantling of the middle class. I honestly hope Kennedy felt good and GUILTY forever after that. He was in a position to help the country and the world and he was not only unfaithful, but a spineless coward at a turning point in his life who betrayed not just the poor girl he left to drown because he was scared, but also the rest of the country.

I also took a few moments to remember Joan Kennedy. I always felt so sorry for her. I remember she was a rather good pianist, as well.

(And to those who are evaluating him *only* by this death: what do you think of the ever-so-genteel Laura Bush's past?)

It might be worth mentioning V.P. Biden's incredibly moving remarks yesterday. And everyone else who shared memories of Kennedy being a True Friend to their cause (including my brother and SIL, who have worked with him on farmworker rights/peonage issues). To me, Biden's remarks that will stand out as the most revealing and appropriate testimonial to the many sides of this immense, complex man.

Here is a link that might be useful: the specialists he didn't even ask for...makes me tear up. That's friendship

I thought this was an interesting description of one of his last appearances in the Senate last year, from a reporter at the Washington Post:

It's July 2008, Kennedy's been gone for 2 months now after being diagnosed with brain cancer. No one knows when he'll be back, and the Dems just missed getting to 60 votes in late June on a bill to save doctors from getting their fees slashed by Medicare. Harry Reid could only get to 59 votes.

Reid reschedules the vote again, and everyone thinks he's crazy, because he's gonna get just 59 votes again.

But word spreads that morning -- what about kennedy?

As the roll call starts, Kennedy walks onto the Senate floor, with John Kerry and Chris Dodd on both arms, serving as blockers to keep too many people from hugging or kissing him. (He's in bad shape and his immune system is incredibly weak.)

Upon seeing kennedy for the 1st time in 2 months, both sides of the aisle erupt in cheers. Kay Bailey Hutchison, tears coming down her face, races across the chamber and jumps into Kennedy's arms. Pretty soon the galleries are erupting in cheers.

It's a complete standing ovation. Even Mitch McConnell -- who really likes Kennedy personally -- is applauding wildly, as he also knows that he is about to lose a big vote because Kennedy has arrived.

Holding 60 definite votes, Dems are about to win. So, knowing the bill is gonna pass and the AMA is gonna give Dems all the credit, 9 Republicans -- including KBH and John Cornyn of Texas -- switch their votes from the previous Medicare vote. They join Kennedy's side, the winning side.

Reid gets 69 votes -- 10 more than he had 3 weeks earlier -- and the bill passes. A few days later Bush begrudgingly signs it into law.

Kennedy soaks in the applause, and then quietly Dodd, Kerry usher him back out, out a back door and into an awaiting car.

It wasn't the last vote of Kennedy's career. But it was his last major vote, his last big display in the Senate he so loved.

So much for redemption. I was always taught to respect the newly departed, even those with serious flaws. My mom said, 'It is the good lord's job now.'

Wonderful advice Golddust!

"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" is probably good advice. (Sometimes I tend to fall more in the "If you can't something nice, come and sit by me" camp though. ;-)) I will say that there are a few politicians that I'll gladly say "good riddance" to when they pass, unkind though that may be.

Well, I think in the cases of people of Ted Kennedy's stature, it's important to remember that they need to be taken "for all in all", and not have the bad piously glossed over for the sake of the good. In fact, I think honestly recognizing the bad makes the good all the more poignant and meaningful. He *wasn't* perfect as we know, in fact he was quite seriously flawed as a person. But alongside that private bad, he did an undeniably gargantuan amount of private and public good for SO many people, many of whom probably will never know it and may actually hate him while receiving the benefits of his work.

I'm not trying to be a jacka$$ about TK.
I don't wish cancer on anyone. I'm actually surprised he passed because he looked good in that photo I linked to.
Nothing like my dad did when he was sick. The cancer made my 69 year old dad look in his late 80's.

I'm also glad that he did a lot of good; the accident had an affect on him and from the little I know, he appears to have done a lot of good due to the tragedy.

I was reading that he should have done at least 2 months in jail & would have liked that he done some sort of time; I dislike when people with money get off. What ever happened that night, he killed a woman; and from the way it looks was probably drinking.

Having said that, he had to live with this & I don't think it was easy for him; especially being in the public eye. Him not reporting it right away & getting a DUI (if he was drunk) would probably have been the lessor punishment. He had to read the stories, see the press & try to go on every day.

Maybe he was punished. It had to be hell living with it for that long.

Hopefully he's resting in peace.

We have printed out Pres. Obama's epochal, inspiring eulogy, but Teddy Jr.'s eulogy is just as amazing. We've sat and listened to it with our DD.

but Teddy Jr.'s eulogy is just as amazing

Yes it was!

All eulogies are viewable online.

Teddy

Patrick

President Obama

I did not agree with him at all on most of his politics but as an Irish Catholic I was moved by the mass today and by the idea that the Church professes of forgiveness and redemption. God rest his soul.

Ed Klein, former Newsweek editor, said on the Diane Rehm Show:

"I dont know if you know this or not, but one of his favorite topics of humor was indeed Chappaquiddick itself. And he would ask people, have you heard any new jokes about Chappaquiddick? That is just the most amazing thing. ItÂs not that he didn't feel remorse about the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, but that he still always saw the other side of everything and the ridiculous side of things, too."

Golddust, Auntjen, Flyleft, Natal, perhaps you could read the following article. The second to last paragraph is SO perceptive.

You joined to post that?

You researched me? (dramatic eye roll and sigh)

Doesn't take much. You see a new name, click their profile & see they joined today. lol

Kind of a strange way to "introduce" yourself to the group ...

Whatever!