How exciting for you. We did our own demo which was fun and exciting. We are DIYing most of our stuff but we did have the cabinets installed by pros. They didn't mind that I took pics at all. They encouraged me and said this might be a good shot, etc. It's your house. They can move out of the frame if they don't want to be in the pics. Go for it. I love to look of the pics of before during and after of all of our projects.

How cool ! demo is scary and exciting !

It's your house, I think you can take as many photos as you want, and it's unreasonable for them to ask you not to. I take photos at the end of most days, when the crew has gone home.

Maybe he was joking ?

No...not joking... I thought he was too, at first...but he put his hand in front of my camera. I asked point-blank, "You really don't want me to take pictures?" And he said, yes, I really don't want you to...

Me, too! Two hours into it!!! I am feeling that excitement you mention of just finally getting going after all of the planning, researching, and false starts. I'm sure the other emotions will come soon. Best of luck!!!!!!

I took this picture when the guys were downstairs dumping stuff. It is my super and his friend, so they wouldn't mind. But they'd have laughed at me for sure. :)
My poor bird spends his whole day in the kitchen, so this is me trying to break it to him in stages. ;)

That first day was the most exciting day for me so far. Saying goodbye to that yucky old kitchen was a thrill. :)

I took tons of pics while they were working and they didn't mind a bit. They even grinned for the camera a couple of times. The GC asked if I would e-mailing him the pics. I was planning to give them to him anyway, and I told him I'd make a CD at the end with all the before and after pics. He was quite grateful.

I was careful not to use a flash while they were doing anything dangerous, but other than safety concerns such as that, I can't think of a single legitimate reason (other than the serious reason behind your GC's "joke") for not allowing you to take pics of the demolition in your home that you are paying them to do.

No...not joking... I thought he was too, at first...but he put his hand in front of my camera. I asked point-blank, "You really don't want me to take pictures?" And he said, yes, I really don't want you to...

Oh, that would have seriously ticked me off. You have every right in the world to take pics. If the individuals working don't want to be in the pics, that's their prerogative, but you should ABSOLUTELY be able to take pics of the work during every single phase. If they have a problem with that, tough.

I am relatively new here; been reading for the last few months and trying to reignite my project that I started designing 6 years ago. You have selflessly helped so many people on this forum and deserve better!

"evidence to use against them" sounds like a red flag. How were these contractors recommended to you? Is there a clause in the contract that states no pictures? This may be a sign of things to come and certainly starts the job with a sense of mistrust. Will someone always be present while they work?

My SO is a commercial specialty sub-contractor in the carpentry trade and documents every job with pictures. They are also evidence that the job is done right. Owners have every right to document, ask questions, and ultimately direct ALL work. My SO would NEVER talk disrespectfully to a job owner. It's your house and you are in charge - not the super.

I'm so sorry you have started this project with uneasy feelings - go with your gut, talk with your DH and resolve it so you can enjoy the process.

How exciting Buehl! I can't wait to see the pics that YOU WILL take today after they leave!

I never went into the demo area while they were working - just for my own safety and to not bother them - but every afternoon after they leave I go in and look around. This is when DH and discuss what's going on and make notes of what we need to tell the GC the next day. And I generally pop into the construction zone once during the day to find out what's happening.

Watch out for the truly unbelievable amount of trash that they extract from your house. For example ...

and

This is about a THIRD of the total cr*p they pulled out of my modest little house. And the dust and dirt was crazy-making, even though they tried really hard to limit it to the back of the house.

Can you charm them into letting you take pictures ? "But I need to show my MOM !" :-)

omg, flatcoat! that is a lot of trash!!! one little inconvenience for my guys is that we think the city dump is closed for mlk day. and i live in a high rise! i don't have that much trash, but i'm not sure where they'll store it til tomorrow...

LOL glad, I am sure that the previous owners of your home didn't put layers and layers and layers of materials over the tops of old stuff. My poor roof had *seven* layers of roofing on it, all the way back to the original wooden shingles.

Take comfort in knowing that this was a LOT more than a kitchen demo only ... kitchen, bathroom, stairs, roof, walls etc. I'm sure you'll be fine.

I just summoned up the magic debris box just now, hopefully the trash goes away today :-)

Um..no pictures?

Our contractor took pictures himself as they went along. I highly encourage you to photograph after they head out for the day. At the very minimum be SURE to get pictures of the wall innards before the drywall goes up, and any burried plumbing (ie for islands etc). You're going to want to know where everything is in there for future referance. Our wall innards pictures saved us from the stucco guys accidently burrying the two exterior outlets on our addition.

I totally understand the part where you are excited and a bit of apprehension. We satrted our demo on thursday and I was feeling exactly like you are. I am still nervous to see how everything will come out.

Regarding your question about taking pictures we are trying to take pictures through different stages. The contractor has no problem. I am suprised they would have n issue with it. Good luck.

I originally wasn't going to respond, but to me the "No pictures" comment would be a huge red-flag especially in light of the "used against" them comment.

These contractors are on YOUR property. They don't have the right to tell you no photos unless you agreed to it in a contract.

Go over the supervisor to the owner and get it straightened out pronto. Absolutely don't let these guys push you around or let them think you a push over. It'll just make any other issues harder do resolve down the road if they think they can "manhandle" you.

oh definitely I ditto alku05 said - take inside wall pictures and then LABEL them on the computer because in 5 years when you decide you want a new outlet somewhere and dh has to run wire you're going to want to know if your plumbing is all in the way and you will not remember.

and in 20 years if you have a leak, it would help to know what exactly is leaking. ;)

Oh how exciting! (& messy) I am also floored about the no pictures comment. That just strikes me as an odd thing to say. I would ask him what he is hiding & that his comment has made you concerned about his work.

Could you tell him that you have been planning this remodel for OVER A YEAR & want to document this exciting moment with a scrap book or something? I like the "But I have to show my Mom!" idea.

I took pictures throughout our remodel...including the dust-filled room & things comming down. The guys just laughed at me & asked for copies of their own.

Good luck & let us know how it goes!

JoAnn

So excited for you. I would definately take pictures and even more since he said NO. Sneek in after they leave if you have to!

Thanks everyone for the support! I think he meant just during the day while they're working. There's no way he can prevent me from taking pictures once he's gone...our kitchen & foyer split the house into thirds so we have no choice but to go through the work area...we've been doing it all day (but not constantly). The kids are a little ancy b/c they can't come & go as they please, but I've sent them to the basement to play on the Wii they got for Christmas. They'll be good until mother nature calls...then back through the construction zone!

Unfortunately, the super is also one of the owners so no luck there. They came from our KD...the other owner originally walked through everything with us a month or so ago and I felt really comfortable with him, very knowledgeable, seemed easy to work with. However, his co-owner is GCing this job and I don't have the same feeling about him...probably b/c of the picture comment, but I don't know. I'm going to talk w/our KD tonight about it. She may have some insight into what the comment really meant. Did he really mean he didn't want me hanging around the construction zone and made a joke about "evidence" rather than tell me to go away? Or did he really mean "evidence"? I did tell him they were for my scrapbook...maybe I'll try the "mom" angle...:-)

I did get one picture while they were taking the cabinets down (the workers themselves don't seem to care) and just now of the junk pile....which is so much smaller than FlatCoat's. My DH did save all the upper and one lower cabinets for the garage and all the appliances were either given away (range & DW) or will be reused (refrigerator & MW). I think that's made a difference in the amount of junk. But, they still had to take up the vinyl floor and take down one pantry wall and the DR wall.

Here are the pics I have so far (the day's not over!)

BTW...these guys are definitely eye candy! (Sorry, I blurred the middle guy's face for privacy reasons!)

Buehl, What a pretty house you have. I hope everything goes as smoothly as it possibly can. How old are your kids? It can be a challenge to keep them happy when their whole routine is changed with something like this.

I'd be a bit uneasy about the "no pictures" comment, too. Let's just hope he's camera shy and doesn't want his picture to end up being plastered all over the Internet. As others have said, though, I don't see how he has any right to demand you not take photos of your own home. And I add my support for the idea of photographing as much as possible for future reference. We took photos of all the open walls in our home as we were building. It came in handy when we wanted to add finishing details (i.e., built-in ironing board) to know where all the studs, wiring, etc. were. And it was really nice when we decided, a few years later, to finish our unfinished basement.

I'm glad you're able to reuse the cabinets. A pet peeve of mine is when you see some of these shows on TV about flipping houses and the first thing the person flipping the house does is start destroying the kitchen cabinets. I don't mind if the cabinets are totally beyond salvage; but, if there's still some life left in them, it's so wasteful not to reuse them. Even if you can't reuse them yourself, you can take them to a Habitat for Humanity store, offer them to friends, put them on Craig's List or Freecycle, etc., etc.

I agree.....go with the "mom angle". I would be suspicious about the "NO pictures" comment too, but maybe he has another reason other than to hide something. Maybe if you re-assure him that this is for your scrapbook he may understand.........funny I was think "hmmmm those demo guy don't look that bad : )" and then I read your comment!! LOL It must be the 80's 'cougar' coming out LMAO
Happy demo'ng and pic taking!

OK...got the scoop on the pictures...

The reason they don't want their pictures taken is indeed "evidence," but not what I thought. They know that many people post their pictures on the internet and what they don't want is to have a pic of one of the workers doing something that might violate an OSHA rule floating around out there...e.g., taking something out of the ceiling w/o protective eye gear. While they don't plan to violate any rules and always try to follow them, occasionally someone forgets... If it's seen on the internet and can be traced back to them they can get into trouble.

I feel better about it now. And I completely understand about sometimes forgetting....they seemed very attentive to safety so I'm not worried about it. I will respect their wishes. That being said, yes I have pictures (taken after they left)! But, I need to take my DS to an appointment so they will have to wait!

Glad you got the scoop. I was worried for you there!

How exciting that all has started. Best wishes for smooth and rapid progress!

Hpoe you took some "before" pics for yourself for those days when you feel like nothing is happening!

Nica

Thanks for the compliment Sail-Away. I know it's not the current McMansion style you see all over the place around here, but I really like it...it's the style I've dreamed of having since I was a little girl! We have 3 acres with a huge backyard and a fire pit for campfires spring through fall, plenty of room for the kids & dogs to play, even a volleyball "court" in the far back. I really couldn't ask for more...except maybe a bigger kitchen! But with the redesign we did for the remodel I don't think that'll be an issue any more!

I agree with you, Sail-Away. I hate to waste anything that could be used by someone else or even by me later (I'm a pack rat...much to my DH's dismay!). The base cabinets we didn't save had drawers that were falling apart so they weren't worth saving, according to my DH. [One of the reasons we're remodeling...I got really tired of having to guide drawers closed or be very careful how I opened them!]

Saskatchewan_girl...they were very cute AND friendly and polite! I've heard some of the horror stories so I was very happy to find them so nice. I said as much to them and they were glad to hear it. I plan to tell our KD when I talk to her tomorrow as well...

Thanks again everyone!

Now to the pictures...

First, a "before" picture:

This is what my "Kitchen" and "DR" look like tonight...

Looking into Kitchen from DR. Most of the wall b/w the DR and the Kitchen was taken down. A peninsula w/2 seats will jut out from the right about 5'. The heating duct/vent to the right is going to be moved to the left where 2' of wall was left up. The carpet is going to be replaced with a hardwood floor.

Looking from FR into Kitchen and DR.

Bay Window. This used to be where our table was but our family has outgrown the small eating space. So, the window was raised to counter-height and we will be putting in a run of cabinets w/granite going into the window. This is the future home of our main sink.

Old Pantry was here. It was a laundry center-turned-pantry so it wasn't an ideal design for a pantry (shelves too deep, wire shelves). This is the future home of our double ovens and corner pantry. The corner pantry will be smaller, but better designed!

Wall shared w/LR (opposite bay window). This used to have our range, sink, and DW...then a corner lazy susan and 24" cab around the corner. It will now have the cooktop centered on the wall w/MW drawer to the right & WD to the left. The corner on the DR side will have a prep sink; the corner on the FR side will house a "pet center".

Looking from Kitchen to Foyer.

Powder Room. They did not demo much here since they want to keep it functional as long as possible. The contractor would rather not have his people traipsing up and down stairs to use the hall bathroom upstairs. The plan is to demo it just before the tile floor goes down and reinstall the toilet at least ASAP after that. I'm trying to talk DH into a new, smaller profile toilet. Our PR is only 4'6" x 4'6"...very tiny!

Hall Closet, also very small!

Wow! You're getting a lot done, aren't you? It looks like they made a lot of progress today. Do you have a drawing of the plan for your kitchen layout? Maybe you've already posted it and I've forgotten---if so, sorry for asking again.

I also like your four-footed building "inspector." I guess I'm getting old, since I noticed the cute dog instead of the cute guys!

Congratulations on the great start to your new kitchen! If you can, keep posting progress pictures. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finish product too. After all your design work, I'm sure it will be great!

Wow--things are really moving along there for you! I'm glad everything was sorted out re: the picture-taking. Now you can snap away at night and we can all ogle the results of the day's work (even though we can't ogle your workers--just kidding!). :-)

So, how did things go today?

Buehl, I'm so excited that it's finally YOUR turn to have the new kitchen underway! Please keep us posted every now and then.

Looks like great progress, so happy you got everything resolved with your crew. Your property sounds lovely - campfires and volleyball - can't ask for much more, besides a great kitchen! I'm also interested in your layout. I've tried to search for it but haven't been able to locate it. What are the dimensions of your kitchen and dining room?

-BB

Congratulations! Thanks for the pics. We will be demoing in about 1 month so useful to know what to expect. And I'm glad you got things straightened out about the pics.

Buehl, I had to laugh at your husband's expectation of schedule. I just about laughed my head off when my husband told me he thought we could do our entire kitchen remodel (cabs, countertops, floors, appliances, lighting, etc.) for $10K. (That's really reason to cry, though...)

I looked at your before kitchen and thought it looked pretty darn good for a before shot (compared to mine, of course!). I'm sure the whole thing will be amazing once it's finished.

[I debated starting a new thread with the subject "Construction in progress!", but I thought it would be better to continue this one b/c it has pictures...plus it means one less thread :-) ]

Today while very productive, was not visually productive--other than a few pipes now sticking out of the floor and the change to the water manifold (I think that's what it's called.) It was quite crowded so it's a good thing the kids were back in school (yesterday was a holiday). 2 plumbers + 1 electrician + KD + 3 tile & misc workers + supervisor.

The plumbers (2) were here and they did everything they can do before the cabinets & countertop are installed. They rerouted water & waste pipes, added water access for the main sink in the window (the prep sink will use the water & vent from the old sink location) changed out the flexible "gray" water pipes to the kitchen to the rigid white PVC pipes, and installed a "vent" for the main sink in the window (pop-up vents are illegal in our county).

The electrician was here as well to get the final light design and to scope out the project on site. My KD has been less than enthusiastic about the angled plugmold, but when I showed the electrician NeedANap's plugmold picture, his comment was, "that looks really nice." I take that to mean the electrician's on board with it! He confirmed they will be 20 amp & on a GFI circuit (as he said, all code for kitchens). BTW...when my GC & KD mentioned the plugmold they were thinking of, the one with 2 continuous channels, he nixed it telling them that won't meet code...just what you all were telling me!

The tile backer was laid in the foyer. But...no tile yet! They have someone tracking it down.

Layout: I think it's long dropped off and I'm not sure it was the final one at that. I will post it tonight.

The main part of our kitchen is 15'L x 11'W. However, we have an extra 6' on one of the walls leading to the FR where we're putting our double ovens & a corner pantry.

Wow! Great progress. And what a great position to be in, having a crowd of subs at different stages of work (so they're not tripping on each other), and all chugging right along. Fabulous! Love the angled plugmold story too :) Rah, GW!

I'm back! If you followed my other posts, you know that we've had a few problems and had a stop work order that began last week Thursday:

* Measuring error (~4") to the left of the sink.
Resolution: we're replacing a 36" drawer base w/a 33" and when the 24" wide wall goes in b/w the DR & Kitchen it will be moved 3/4" further into the DR than the original wall was.

* Measuring error (>7") to the right of the sink. This is directly affecting the small corner pantry (46-1/4" x 42") we had planned. Not only is it reducing one wall by over 7", but since we have a 24" door to put in the corner, it's extending the other wall an additional 7 or 8 inches into the FR doorway. The doorway is already only 48" wide and I do not want it any smaller! [We're trying to open up that part of the house, not close it in!]
Resolution: still working on it.
-- Our KD wants us to switch to a 36" pantry cabinet, but it wouldn't work for what I have planned for our pantry...one side MW + appliance garage & the other food.
-- So, the KD is now reducing a 3" filler to 1-1/2" and I've proposed switching the 24" drawer base in the peninsula w/the 27" drawer base on the sink wall. No word from the KD on that. However, I was able to check the cabinet box for the 24" base and noticed it has a finished right side...the 27" does not since it was in the middle of the run...so that may not be an option.

* Vent hood...whew! This one is tough. We still have no resolution. It's too long to go into here (longer than the pantry explanation!) I've linked it below.

The good news is that the contractor is back working. They're putting the tile down in most of the area in stages. Yesterday half the foyer was tiled and today the second half plus, I think, some of the kitchen will be tiled. Part of the kitchen will have to wait until the pantry issue is resolved (a wall has to be erected).

The reason the foyer is being tiled in stages is that it's the only access we have to the upstairs (bedrooms & only water source right now). Since the tile cannot be walked on for 24 hours or so, by doing half at a time we will always have a path to get upstairs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Our Second Problem!!!

Thanks for the progress report.

Glad things are moving along :) You should have enough great karma from all the help you've generously given so many here that I can only think that all of this difficulty has to lead eventually to something really wonderful.

Yeah for you....progress!

Thanks for the update. There are a lot of people here hoping everything gets resolved and goes smoothly from now on.

Thanks for all the support, I really appreciate it.

Another update: The drawer base switch won't work...if we did that, then the upper cabinet wouldn't fit...if we then ordered a 3" narrower upper cabinet, it would throw off the balance on the wall on either side of the sink. (Balance is important to me...)

So...now I am seriously considering the pantry cabinet IF we can get our money back for the pantry door AND if we can get a cabinet deeper than 24". I think I can make it work as an appliance garage + food pantry if I can get a deeper cabinet, but I'll have to think about how I want the interior...any ideas? I may start another thread asking for suggestions.

The tile floor didn't get finished yesterday since the "tile guy" had a family emergency.

As to the vent hood, it doesn't look promising. We don't have the estimate yet, but our KD thinks it will be too expensive to move the MBA tub waste pipe & vent since it will require us to open up walls upstairs & going up through the roof or possibly linking into an existing vent. We'll have to wait and see what the plumber's estimate & details are.

Meanwhile, one of the contractor's guys suggested that if we do move the pipe, then rather than finagle a way around the main wast pipe, we get an island hood that will go straight up and then curve out to the exterior wall. It does sound feasible...does anyone see anything wrong w/that?

That's it for now!

Update:

Tile floor still not done. The "tile guy" cut himself pretty seriously yesterday and spent most of the day in the Emergency Room waiting for stitches. He was back to work today...I'll see how much progress he made today.

Venting Problem

Not good. We got the estimate today from the contractor: $4,800 to move the waste pipe to the right 3 or 4 feet. I'm skeptical about that estimate. I know the contractor didn't want to do it, so I think he may have inflated the cost so we'd say no. The plumber told us we had a couple of different options, but when the contractor presented the price, he only gave one option...I'm going to "talk" to the KD about it tomorrow morning. I have heard on this site that when a contractor doesn't want the work, s/he often inflates the price so you'll say no or go elsewhere.

I tried calling a a plumber we've used before w/no connection to the contractor to give us a second opinion/estimate, but they were gone for the day...I'll try tomorrow morning. If they have a better estimate, we'll probably go with him for the changes.

Pantry

No news here either...we meet w/our KD tomorrow about it.

I have to say that my review of these people on Angie's List when we're done is rapidly deteriorating!

Buehl,

What are you doing for a temporary kitchen? Where are you doing your clean-up? I'm thinking it must get pretty frustrating as the days pass and you're operating without a functioning kitchen.

Sorry you're having to go through all this. I hope you end up with a fabulous kitchen when all is said and done.

Our temporary kitchen is in the FR. I broke down and bought a toaster oven & one-burner "hot plate" since I'm seeing the writing on the wall... a long time w/no kitchen! The MW & refrigerator are also in the FR. It's pretty cramped in there right now!

Now that the PR has been demolished, we have no water on the first floor at all (unless you count the outside hoses!) so I've also bought some 2.5-gallon water bottles/dispensers from Safeway.

Thanks for keeping us posted. The 4800 estimate does seem high. Hope the "talk" with the KD goes well and you get to hear something postive.

I had not read all of this but when I saw the waste pipe thing I thought I would throw in my .02. We had a waste pipe from the 1st to the 2nd floor that was in the way by about 3-4 ft too. I remember very clearly the day they had the plumber here to move it and I also very clearly remember the contractor's comments about moving it when I asked if that was a "big deal" as I really wanted it moved but figured there was no way since it was a "big plumbing deal !!". He said that it was nothing to worry about and was a simple thing to "move this here and attach a new one of these here" . And believe it or not that is what they did. It didn't even take a 1/2 day. They literally looked like they were using big kids toys and simply cut and attached the new PVC pipes. This is a big pipe and connects from the second floor through the first floor and down into the crawl space into the main sewer line. I know that I am not a plumber but they sure didn't act like it was a big deal and we are in a 110 yr old house so if they had wanted to make it into an expensive deal I wouldn't have known any better and I would have paid so yeh I think that price is crazy. Good luck and I hope that things start movin' along better for you , c

Dear, oh dear. You're very right about the nuisance factor in bidding. It's not just contractors. Most people who do project work do it. I had a friend who hated working for a particular firm so inflated her bids to them by ever increasing numbers. They kept hiring her and the padding was worth it to her to put up with them :) I hope the plumber comes back with a much more reasonable number. (There are all kinds of angle things involved with waste pipes that can make moving them difficult, so I hope it boils down just to logistics and desire to do the work :) )

Keeping a good thought...

oh no...that is NOT good. I'm sorry it's not going as planned.

fwiw, I had pipes moved all over my house and nothing came close to that expense. Heck, $4800 was going to get a MAJOR waste pipe moved in the basement as well as the water heater and furnace moved which entailed moving every piece of pipe in the cellar.

Another plumber came out and, like Trailrunner, said it wasn't a big deal. We don't have his estimate yet. My DH wanted to negotiate with our contractor once we get an estimate (assuming it's not too bad), but I told him no...they're giving us such a hard time that I don't want to give them any more money...I'd rather give it to the second plumber who has worked on our well pump in the past and we like him. Yes, it means we will have to get a second permit, but they're not that expensive (the County Permit office told me $25 for the first fixture & $5 for each additional.)

The pantry issue is still up in the air...I have another thread going right now about that...see link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Corner Tall Cabinet...Does anyone have one?

Wow, Buehl. I'm a late arriving guest, but I'm oh so sorry to learn you might have a reluctant contractor raining on your reno party! I think your instincts to go with a plumber you have previously worked with, and whom you like and trust, makes a whole lot of sense here --especially when he tells you that moving that waste pipe is not such a big deal. Sure hope this all gets resolved for you properly and quickly. Now that I've joined the party, I'll be both wishing you the best and watching your posts to follow your progress. Hang in there!

Not a waste pipe on our end, but the pipes we had to move were done by DH as a DIY - the stuff they have now called "pex" (or something like that - sounds like it anyway)is like plumbing legos. Heck with cutting and soldering copper pipe! Makes the whole thing really easy.

If the plumber you like comes back with a reasonable price, then the venting issue pretty much goes away, no? or are you still worried about your contractor (to say nothing of the KD!)

We're pulling for you.