Well, I am probably the only person on this forum that wouldn't take a lazy susan if you gave it to me so now you know my opinion there. I wanted angled corners but they weren't available in the cabinet style I chose and I didn't want to add reconfiguring them to my list. Mine will be the easy reach which I think is an oxymoron. No corner cabinet is easy reach.

I've wondered how convenient those pull outs are. Unless I'm missing something - Could It Be??- You will have to bend over to find what you want under the top shelf. I am going to have roll out shelves in all my bottoms. I've almost always had them and for me, it's the only way to go. I know I'll loose space having the roll outs but I'm not as limber as I used to be and the object of my remodel is so I don't have to get down on my hands and knees to retrieve things out of the base cabinets.

I will have more drawers than I've had before. It remains to be seen whether that was a good idea.

having a bad back myself - tho shorter than you (5') I'd to with all drawers. putting seldom used items in the lower drawers. Canned goods can go in drawers also! If the upper shelf of a SS isn't too low for you, they could go on that also.
a few ideas that I've saved from the forum here to use are -

a drawer inside of a drawer can be used for less used things and keep w/i reach.

the above could have a front looking something like this if too many drawers look weird to you - or you need a really deep one:

canned goods in drawers of a GW kitchen:

"I am probably the only person on this forum that wouldn't take a lazy susan if you gave it to me so now you know my opinion there."

I'd join you in that. I'd rather have drawers butting up to that 'corner' myself.

I think roll outs would work much better than the pull out in your link.

Disadvantages of the pull out in your link:
1. The fixed panel on the front blocks the view from the front.
2. The upper shelves block the views of the lower shelves. If the cabinet is 15" wide you'd have to get down low to see the items in the middle of the lower shelves.
3. If the shelves are more than 2 cans wide, reaching into items stored in the middle will be difficult and you'll need to leave empty space between the top of the cans and the bottom of the shelf above for reach in room.
4. You'll have to pull out all the shelves and their contents every time you want anything.
5. To me, these types of pull outs aren't much better than fixed shelves. The only difference is you get views/access from 2 sides rather than one---but you have to pull everything out to see any of it.

The advantages of roll out shelves:
1. access/views from sides, front and top.
2. shelves can usually be adjusted so that you minimize unused vertical space---i.e. you don't need to leave any reach in room since items stored in the middle of the shelf can be accessed from the top. I have my pantry pull outs adjusted so that I can stack 2 like cans on top of each other and they almost hit the bottom of the roll out above. If you get roll outs, make sure they're height adjustable!
3. Items stored in the front of a roll out shelf can usually be gotten without pulling the shelf out at all (open the door and grab)--I keep my most used canned items in front.

For storing larger things in the island as you say, I'd go with a drawer front on a rollout shelf, like I mentioned on another of your threads, so it's just one motion to open but you don't have the high drawer box to lift things over. This would allow you to get a grip on it without having to lift it straight up first. Another advantage of this is that things can stick out a little over the sides of a shelf, to the extent that the hardware would allow, instead of being limited only to the inside dimensions of the drawer box.

There are always the baskets for potatoes and onions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pull-out baskets

Pinch me and DesertSteph,

You are not alone! LOL! I had one in our previous kitchen remodel because I couldn't avoid it. Our old kitchen here had two cabinets that we "fondly" called the blackhole #1 and #2! Needless to say our new kitchen doesn't have any!

Warmfridge, I thought about those pullouts as well, but decided against them for the reasons pp have already stated. I think rollouts would be easier for you too.

Pinch, I'm the same on lazy susans. They work, but I still hate them.

Warmfridge, on the other hand, they do work. Instead of the angled cabinet with the full round, get the pie cut susans that sit on the shelves. I had three of those in my old kitchen. The great thing is that when you turn them the round part comes out of the cabinet in the L corner, so that you can see what's there just looking straight down, and you only have to lift, rather than bend and reach, to get something out. The angled door is a smaller opening to get things in and out of, and you have to bend to see in.

OTOH, it might be worth getting corner drawers. That's what I did. There's the same amount of usable area, or maybe a tad more, and full extension drawers of any kind are going to be the easiest with your back issues.

The other thing I'd suggest looking into is the Blum servo system or spring pressure latches. The Blum is expensive, but if there's pain savings it might be worth it. You press on the face of the drawer and it opens itself. That means you can easily open a lower drawer with an ankle or knee rather than having to bend before you see what you want to get out. Spring pressure latches do the same thing, but they only pop open and inch and then you have to pull them out.

Whatever else, do get full extension on all your drawers and pullouts. That will help immensely, as will self-close/soft-close, so you just need to give a push and forget them, rather than having to bend to close the final couple of inches sometimes.

Rollouts may well be the best option, but they do require more motions (open both cabinet doors all the way -- meaning step back from them -- roll shelf out, close shelf, close doors) unless, as I said before, they are mounted to a drawer front rather than inside cabinet doors (pull shelf attached to drawer front, get what you need, push in). We have had the rollouts for 15 years and the insides of the doors are gouged from being impatient to get to whatever is on the shelf. That's OK; you can't see them from the outside. But if you're particular, you have to be particularly careful.

Is this what you all mean by rollout? Is this better (or worse) than a stack of drawers? Would you use this for the cab w/ canned storage, and also deeper rollouts for the pots & pans, etc in the island?

Jsweenc, by drawer-front rollout, are you referring to something like steph's 3rd picture above?

pillog, I don't think I need those types of latches, but I'm making a note about full-extension drawers & pullouts.

I don't think I can do corner drawers...will have to ask the cabinet guy. The corner opening will only be about 8'' on each side. The angled drawers would waste too much space.

Here is a link that might be useful: ? rollout

I think they mean what you linked as rollouts and the pullouts would be the tall full pull outs with the shelves on them. I think those shelves would be very awkward to use.

drawers can have lower or higher sides and backs - and a larger drawer front if you want to put something tall in it (like the trash bins) or if you want to have an 'inside' drawer (rollout) like in the 3rd pic I posted above.

one GWer has a drawer like that for her pots/pans and a skinnier (maybe 2 inch sides/back) in there also - maybe for lids? or skillets? I think that's a neat idea - but for me - owner of 2 4qt pots, 2 skillets and 1 lid it would seem wasteful and expensive! If you have a lot of them tho, it's a good idea. you pick out a pot and slide out the top part and find the lid!

here's another 'drawer' idea. This one is great for the use shown and I'm wanting to have a version of it for my soda and water bottles. rather high sides and back so they don't fall over but not needing them the full height of the drawer front. Actually, those side bars would probably hold the bottles up also - and less wood used. Note that depending on how tall you need it you can have a drawer or 2 above it. in your case if it's something used often you could put just 1 drawer over it - or make it the top one! have another drawer below it for the less used items.

a GW drawer also I think:

also, referring to pic 3 above - you could just have 2 or 3 not so high drawers for canned goods. i think a soup can (not the larger ones) is about 3" in diameter. maybe have one 4 or 5" deep and one even deeper for larger cans. I don't buy much bigger ones since I live alone and seldom cook. the drawers don't have to be that wide either if you don't keep that many canned goods on hand. i figure a 12 - 15" wide drawer would hold all of my canned goods - probably a 6 month supply! not counting canned dog food - I use 2 or 3 of those a week. I think my dog will need her own canned food drawer - lol!

I like all the drawer ideas posted. Mine will simply be open the door, pull the shelf out. One on the bottom, one in the middle. I don't know if they are height adjustable. I didn't know they could be. Being able to pull the shelf out and get what I want is good enough for me. No more foraging trips with the flashlight.

Desertsteph brings up a good point. Gizmonike has a lot of vertical storage that might work well for you. I found pictures, but they're in someone's clippings, so takes awhile to load. They're pretty near the bottom.

Eight inches is pretty minimal for any kind of corner cabinet. 12" on each side of the corner is standard. But you can make anything work, including drawers.

I did the math once comparing the surface area on one full circle lazy susan tray, one pie cut, one pull out drawer, and one shelf of cabinets with a dead blind corner. The full circle got about 20% more surface area than the true blind. The pie cut, and drawers, both got a little more, but nothing to get excited over. Maybe 5-7%. The main reason for choosing a corner unit is to maximize the potential of full overlay/euro style doors, which would block each other on a true blind installation, unless done as a single, middle hinged door.

Like the picture with the sheet pan pullout, also one on pillog's link for pots & pans.

The reason my corner sides are only going to be about 8'' is that I'm making both the upper and lower cabs about 2'' deeper than normal. This will allow me to relocate more stuff from the lowers to uppers (I hope). But it changes the geometry in that corner. I guess probably a pie cut Susan is the best answer.

warmfridge,

Trying to process all the posts after mine, but I'll answer your question first. When I said drawer front, it was kind of like desertsteph's pic #3 but with only one level per drawer front (front being the styled piece that everyone sees, with the hardware on it). I have a picture that shows exactly what I mean, but of course when I copied and pasted it a long time ago I didn't include the link. I don't know how to get a picture from my file to iphoto to get it to photobucket. The picture I have has a wire shelf with no sides, attached to a drawer front, with pots and pans sitting on it. I'll keep trying.

I think in your situation drawers would be better.
Roll Out Tray Shelves (ROTS)...the cabinet door(s) will be in the way somewhat of the sides of the ROTS plus things can fall off the sides of the trays b/c of the shallow sides. There's also the fact that you need more motions to use ROTS than drawers. To open...you have to open the door (or doors) fully, pull out the ROTS. To close...you have to push the ROTS in, wait for it to close fully, then close the door (or doors).
Roll Out Tray Shelves w/tall drawer/door fronts attached...the front panel will get in the way of seeing & accessing items plus things can still fall off them b/c of the shallow sides & the added motions (see previous point)
Pullouts...you will have to do a lot more bending over to see what's on the lower shelves, even if they are adjustable
The above issues are not necessarily problems for everyone, but I think for someone w/back problems the less bending over & reaching around things, the better.
With drawers, the sides are generally taller so things cannot fall off, the drawer fronts are no taller than the drawers so there's no going around them or trying to reach over them, and you can easily access items from the front and sides b/c there are no doors (or tall door fronts) in the way. Opening & closing drawers take only one motion each: pull open drawer/push drawer closed (and walk away while it closes...with or without soft-close)

What I do think is absolutely crucial for you is full-extension drawers. "Regular" drawers are usually only 3/4-extension so 1/4 of the drawer is left inside the cabinet. You then have to peer in and reach inside the cabinet itself to reach the the contents back there.
With full-extension, the entire drawer pulls out from the cabinet so the entire contents of the drawer are visible and easily accessed.

HTH & good luck!

Sorry, warmfridge, I didn't answer your other question. The Diamond picture is the kind of shelves I have, and that's what I mean when I say rollout shelves.

plllog, I had to google pie cut lazy sandra (as I said on another thread, my name is Susan, so though it may be true that I am lazy, I will pick on someone else). It took me a while, but I think I get the difference that you are describing.

pinch_me, I don't think you can adjust the height on roll-out shelves. On mine you can't. The hardware is attached to strips of wood nailed to the sides of the face frame (I think I said that right). I use mine to store small appliances (waffle iron, crock pot, george foreman, etc., and heavy glass baking dishes and mixing bowls so two shelves with ample height has worked well for me. (Forgot to take a picture of that. I will tomorrow if you need one.)

buehl, I agree, if she is storing small things like canned goods, falling off would be a problem. Actually, I haven't seen any pictures of these shelves with no sides; the wire ones have a railing to keep things from falling off but I didn't notice it until just now. But what I have in mind is a front panel that is no higher than a regular drawer would be, not as high as the one in desertsteph's picture #1.

If storing larger, heavier things like pots and pans, having shallow sides can be an advantage, because she wouldn't have to lift directly, or at least not so far. Mine have shallow sides and it's easier to lift what I keep there than it would be if they were in full drawers.

However, I think it's a toss-up between vertical drawer dividers in which pans sit by themselves and a roll-out w/drawer front.

{{!gwi}}
Shallow sides

{{!gwi}}
Gouging from rollout hardware (15 years' worth)

I've had the drawer with either 3 (pans) or 4 (cans) roll outs below in 2 kitchens, and have loved them, especially for canned goods. Never had anything fall off--just pay a minor amount of attention when putting small boxes or lids in them), and I could easily see what was where. I always looked in them from the front, so doors (which were never wider than 18" on a single or double cabinet) never blocked my view. They were adjustable (Kraftmaid), so I could have one for smaller (soup, etc.) cans, one for larger (tomatoes, peaches, etc.), whatever I needed. Which is why they work better than drawers sometimes.

Also love our Super Susan.

Anne

How about "super susan"? Here's a picture of a pie cut one. it's "super" because there's no central pole. This is much better. If it's shelf mounted then if something falls it stays on the shelf. And the central pole just gets in the way, though less so on a pie cut than a full circle.

See how it rotates outside of the cabinet? Much easier that way.

{{!gwi}}

Susan, that much gouging after 15 years isn't bad at all!

I have one base cabinet w/two ROTS and they are adjustable. (It's our Pet Center cabinet). As you can see in this pic, I put one ROTS on the very bottom and one as high as it would go.

I will say, though, that if WarmFridge is planning on storing canned goods or other small items in base cabinets, then the one she linked to in her "Sun, Jan 17, 10 at 18:21" post (the 5-ROTS cab) may be useful for her. She could store her canned goods on the side, label name side up. It would allow her to store some pantry-type items in lower cabs. I just think ROTS shelves in general, though, are best for her.

plllog, thanks, I am so glad for Super Susans, for the name at least, and perhaps for function in my kitchen, if I can ever decide what to do with my corner! : )

All in all, I've loved my ROTS, considering the other options available at the time. Agreed, buehl, that for warmfridge's situation, these may be the best solution. And I love the 5-tier can shelves in her picture!

Actually, I made a mistake. In my last sentence, I meant to say I thought drawers in general would be best with maybe one of the 5-ROTS cabs as well for canned goods.

jsweenc...in my old kitchen, all my base cabs had those half-depth, fixed shelves and they were awful! I didn't have the option for anything else...not even ROTS! Compared to the old kitchen, almost anything would be better!

I just had a thought, I think this is one case where I think one or more counter-top appliance garages might be the best idea for storing small appliances...less lifting and lugging them around.

A couple more questions...

Are the ROTS generally sturdy enough to handle canned goods? (full extension shelves in a 15'' cab)

And are deep drawers for pots & pans going to be manageable in a 30'' cab?

Regarding small appliances, I have a whole row of them on a counter now. There was an unused coat closet in the LR half of my great room, which I fitted with shelves and now serves as a pantry & broom closet. It's a few extra steps but a good use of wasted space. I'm hoping that when I get the new cabinets and everything reorganized, I'll be able to move my blender and FP into the pantry and have fewer small appliances on the counter, but the breadmaker and KA mixer are staying put...they're too heavy to lug around.

I can second the recommendation to get roll-out drawers without a cabinet door in front of them. We did this as a last-minute space filler when I realized I had a long tall opening and nowhere to put my canned goods, and it's worked out amazingly well, one of favorite new kitchen things.

With the pullout drawers at body height, you can see everything, and because of the taller sides everything stays in place - my problem with so many of the vertical pantries is that I tend to be too hasty and things invariably tumble off the sides when I push in or out. (Add me to the Susan Abominating Club, for the same reason [!].)

I am so not an engineer, warmfridge, and I have had the same question as you. It's hard to imagine putting heavy things on a shelf and pulling it all the way out. My best answer is if they are being recommended by experts and those with experience, they must hold up to the math and the real-life testing. I plan to get them too. (Now, those with real knowledge can truly enlighten you.)

I would think that unless you have all cast iron (can't imagine that you do), a 30" drawer won't be unwieldy. Depends on the weight of your pots and pans and how many you will store in each drawer/shelf.

buehl, I would also agree that drawers would be the best option IF they had shallow sides rather than typical tall sides, especially if used for heavier things. Not with tall front panels like steph's pic #1 but regular front panels.

And yes, fixed shelves are awful! On the few that we have, I almost always strain a shoulder or have to get way down to reach back. In my new kitchen, I'd rather lose a little space than have to deal with any of those.

The problem w/the short sides, whether ROTS or drawers, is that things can fall off them when they're in motion or while getting something else out/off them. With the higher sides (close to the height of the drawer front, in the case of drawers), the sides will stop things from falling.

Open shelves/ROTS...my personal opinion is that I don't like them. I don't like having my pantry items all out in plain sight like that...assuming the above pic is in the kitchen & not a pantry or side room somewhere. To me, and remember this is just my personal opinion & YMMV, it looks unfinished...but, keep in mind that I also do not like open shelves, so it's probably all part of my preference. Yes, I'm sure they're more functional than standard ROTS behind doors...but since the walls of the pullouts are tall & there are no doors, they're really drawers...just drawers without a drawer front.

BTW...another idea for a space like that is a pullout broom closet...a pullout w/pegboard would give you a place to hang a broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, etc.

As to lazy susans, most of today's lazy susans no longer have the "falling off" issue. The walls & back now follow the contour of the shelves and are so close to the shelves (probably within 1/8" to 1/4") there is no way anything can fall off. You also have a limited front exposed so there's also very little likelihood that anything will fall off the front either. Even my old kitchen's cheap builder-grade cabinets from 1995 had the "new" lazy susan. We never had anything fall off (b/c there was no place for anything to go) and the lazy susan itself was in the best shape of all the cabinets in my old kitchen...as a matter of fact, it operated as smoothly the day we demo'd as the first day.

OTOH, my mom has the "old" lazy susans in both the upper & base corner cabinets (from 1960). Both lazy susans have room for things to fall off, and things do fall pretty often (especially if you spin them too quickly). While it's probably nice to be able store boxes of cereal or rice on the sides, it's a real pain to retrieve those fallen items. If that style was the only option out there for lazy susans, then I would join the ranks of those that hate susans!

jsweenc...if I had found this Forum years ago, I might have taken the plunge and removed those shelves and put in ROTS as a DIY project! Instead, I lived with them for almost 13 years!

Sorry WarmFridge, I meant to address the weight issue. If you have good drawer hardware, there shouldn't be any issues w/the weight of canned goods or pots & pans. Drawer glides are rated for the maximum weight they can hold...so check your glides. I would try for 100-pound glides if you plan to store a lot of cans or cast-iron pots & pans.

My pantry is 36" wide but due to the frames, the pull outs are only 24.5" wide (interior). They hold a lot of weight. I believe the glides are rated for 100#. You can check with your cabinet company about the rating for the pull outs. My pull outs do rub against the doors sometimes but after 4 1/2 years they only show slight marks that can be rubbed away with my fingers.

Our pull outs are more like interior drawers---with the advantage that they can be separated as much as I want to accommodate taller items. I could add something (i.e. a stiff piece of cardboard) to the backs of the can storage pull outs to keep the cans from toppling off the back but I've solved the problem by not stacking cans in the back-most rows. I really like the pictures above (desertsteph's and buehl's) with the shallow pullouts and cans on their sides--it looks really easy to see the labels.

Here's our can storage:

{{!gwi}} {{!gwi}}

Here's the base roll out in our baking cabinet. I have them adjusted so that the stacked panini press and electric griddle just clear the pull out above. The pile of pie plates in the upper pull out usually goes a bit higher. The stack is very stable and I have no worries about them toppling. Picture on the right shows the adjustment holes (upper portion of baking cabinet.) The door doesn't have any rub marks.

{{!gwi}} {{!gwi}}

I like Circuspeanut's filler drawerROTS. I like doors on everything for myself, but I like the way these look in Peanut's kitchen, which has more of a country sophisticate vibe. While being stylishly finished and deliberate looking, the boxes suggest something of a farmhouse heritage, and the spacing gives a visual interest that full drawer fronts wouldn't. And, of course, there's the practical issue that if they were full drawerfronts, there would have to be a face frame, which would cut down on the storage volume. Having no frame and fronts goes with the style of the kitchen better than a change to full overly.

Most of all, if you like the look, Warmfridge, it might be good for someone with pain and mobility issues because you have the advantage of ROTS of being able to see what you're looking for before you pull your chosen drawer, combined with not having to do the open the doors shuffle.

buehl, yes, things can fall off if they are lightweight and/or are stacked like in zelmar's. I have these in a 36" base, a 24" base and an 18", 42" high base. That one has 3 shelves and I use them for plastic storage containers, which sometimes fall out the back side, lids especially. I will definitely have a different arrangement for these, maybe a full drawer. OTOH, heavier or bulkier items will not fall off. I've never had trouble with the ones on which I keep my baking dishes, small appliances, pots & pans, etc. So drawer fronts for sure, not ROTS, but IMO, it would depend on what warmfridge might be using them for as to whether to go with full drawer box or shallower sides. If for larger items, it will help to be able to scoot them a little and get under them for easier lifting; in a full drawer, she would have to lift them directly. If for smaller, lighter weight items, a full drawer box would definitely be better.

warmfridge, zelmar's bottom left pic illustrates perfectly why full extension is needed. Imagine trying to get that appliance out from behind the tall boxes in front of it. You either have to take those boxes out or risk knocking them out, or be so awkwardly careful that it might hurt. (Not that you needed convincing, I just noticed it.) zelmar, are they FE?

If we all had this forum many years ago, none of us would be here at all, right? Except maybe to share stories about the good old days!

Thank you all so much! I've been able to actually make some decisions here...a week ago, I was just spinning my wheels. ROTS behind a door for the canned stuff, a pullout for sheet pans, deep drawers in the island for pots & pans, and a pie-cut super Susan in the corner. Hopefully, my cabinet guy will say it's all doable.

Whew! An actual decision! My other goal is to decide on lighting and flooring by the end of the week. ;>)

Hooray, decisions made!! I would say "Let us help" with those other things but I'd really only be volunteering others' services. I know I like my hardwood floors, and I know I want more light. But I'll be cheering for you!

Susan

" 'Regular' drawers are usually only 3/4-extension so 1/4 of the drawer is left inside the cabinet."

those should be out lawed! if they aren't, we should start a movement to do that!

the slide out drawers w/in a drawer front can have any height of sides/back as you want or need (if custom i guess). pic 1 had high ones, pic 3 has low sides. I think the drawer w/in a drawer front works nice for like things. pans with lids, mixing bowl with measuring cups, spoons, sifter etc. you'll usually be using from both 'drawers' anyway. different ones for different options.

the type of 'drawer' with the sheet/cake/bread pans could also be used for cutting boards, trays, lids etc also.

btw - i did measure my sister's SS 'doors' on either side of the corner once just to see how much space it'd take up... was 8" on each side-not bad. everything really did seem accessible on the turntable also. I could take a pic next time over there if you want to see it. that'd be later this week.

do you have one of those grabber/picker upper things? it's a long metal thing with a 'pincher' thing on the end of it - you squeeze the handle and it grabs something on the ground (or up high) and pull it to you? if not, you should get one - they're maybe 30.00 or so. my sister gave me one last yr - don't know how i've survived w/o it all these yrs!

Yes, jsweenc, our roll outs are full extension (not so obvious from the pictures.)

I've been so spoiled with the FE that now I get frustrated when furniture doesn't have it (i.e. bureaus.) I agree that there ought to be a law....

fwiw, I really like our supersusans. I wasn't a fan of corner cabinets (didn't want any) before our remodel but I am now glad I got convinced to put in 2 ss's.