Have you considered switching the kitchen with the laundry room?

Christy: Thanks. I think the extra storage in this plan would be nice.

Houseful: What do you have in mind? The kitchen is on the left now, the W/D are in the little alcove. I have not considered switching rooms (or keeping the rooms the same as they are now). The existing one-car garage (on the left; the steps are in the garage) will become all unfinished storage space until my son leaves his car here during graduate school in NYC.

The view should be better from the window on the right. The primary entrance to the house will be up the steps from the new garage. The view at the back of the house is toward one of the main streets in town.

Hi Cotehele. I like this layout a lot. It seems very workable and lets people get in and out easily. Also, you have a good work triangle with either your prep sink or your cleanup sink, so you could have two people cooking at once. It looks like there might be room for some stools on the end of your peninsula. Looks good!

I also like the way you've opened up the front hallway to the DR. It seems much more spacious now. Well done!

Here's something I had in mind.

Houseful, something like this?

I think I like this one. I'm glad to see you have your beverage counter back. I, however, really want a walk in pantry, so would extend the wall from the garage door straight down and put a door adjacent to where you have the UC fridge, then eliminate the pantry cabinet to the right of the fridge to get more counter space. Hope that makes sense...Or would part of the big closet be pantry storage?

Rhome, is this what you had in mind?

I still prefer counter on the right. Does this work?

I think I like this option also, but I'm partial to straight lines in a kitchen, especially an older house, just seems to fit for some reason ... so I like the square penisula... just my preference. I like this last design and the one you posted yesterday at 12:03 the best. Both of these seem to open up your kitchen, but allow for a good workable kitchen.

Christy

Christy, adapting a new kitchen to an old house is a challenge. I've seen some really nice, period appropriate kitchens here. My hope is our kitchen turns out as well. These layouts are conceptual, so 90-degree corners on the island may work. I'd hate to loose some length to have 36 inches or so to walk by the laundry.The island may be a polygon rather than just a rectangle.

This plan looks good, but I have a few questions. Where is your oven? Is it to the left of the cooktop? Isn't the kitchenet a baking center? That seems like a long way from the oven.

Other than that, I love the pantry. It is nice and big and cleverly conceals the chimney. It is still across the isle from the main part of the kitchen, though, so you might build in a pantry cabinet for food items that are used more frequently.

You could have pocket doors on the laundry room to close it off if you wanted to. - Stephanie

You are right, auchmedden, the oven is on the south end of the kitchen in the last three plans. And, it is a ways from the kitchenet. I hope one of the ovens in the stack is an Advantium. I've read it has a proof feature; the bread can rise close to the baking oven! I'll use the oven for casseroles and desserts that will be prepped on the island, not far from the ovens.

This tweaked plan has some doors added, which will need to adjusted so they won't be in the way when open. We foster Goldens for a rescue org. so closing off the back of the house will be a luxury we don't have now.

The abundance of under counter storage should have room for a few food items near the prep area. I keep rice by the rice cooker, pasta by the pasta pot, etc. so I can get everything at once.

The curves are removed from the island, too. The rectangular island thread has been a lesson in what to store in an island and how.

To answer your question from last night, it is kind of what I meant. I wouldn't put the bend in the beverage counter...Only make it a straight line of counter and cabs. Corners aren't that good for anything, and makes the other work area by the UC fridge seem small and crowded.

I wouldn't do the little bumpout on any of the islands, whether you have an arced bar or not. Can't imagine that it would add that much, but look awkward and add a corner to catch your hip.

Your last plans make it difficult to access the fridge from any of the eating areas.

If this is not close, I am taking a break. I wake up at night thinking about this, and can't go back to sleep.

You show only 30" between island and fridge. I didn't notice you'd done that in the plan before, too. That won't work. That whole aisle, with or without fridge, is pretty narrow...Does the island have to be that deep? I don't think you'd want to place anything on that angled pantry wall, it seems to stick out into that main traffic path.

Rhome: I didn't notice the aisle was so narrow. It should be at least 36".

I appreciate your wisdom! I am not disagreeing with your suggestions, just thinking out loud. The 3' work surface of the island can be less deep. Pullouts at the back of the work surface could hold cookbooks or something. I know they would not be as accessible as on a shelf, but I don't use cookbooks very often. I store purses in my kitchen area, too. (Weird I know. That is the last thing I grab going out the door. If they are in my closet, I have to run upstairs because I always forget something!) Purses could go in a pullout or on a shallow shelf on that angled pantry wall. An 8'' - 1' pantry shelf would work for canned goods. Or the nook would work for a ladder and broom.

This looks like a good point at which to step back and look at the priorities for your remodel. It feels like you are getting lost in possibilities without thinking about what is most important for you to accomplish here.

The variations in these plans are swinging wildly. Other than using the kitchenewtte somehow, what are your priorities? Do you just want an updated kitchen that is good to work in or is there a to-die-for feature you's like to have -- a possible focal point?

How do you see using the kitchenette? Do you want it to continue as a baking area or could you see it in another service -- a breakfast or snack bar, part of your beverage area, something else? Would you consider refinishing it or reworking it a bot, or does it need to stay as it is? Have you decided on your appliances -- at least as to size and type (seems to be some undertainty there)?

What do you want or need from your laundry area? Is another bathroom something you need or want? Bathrooms will add considerably to the budget, and depending on the construction of your house, it may or may not be that easy to just plunk one in. Honestly, that last option just threw me for a loop.

I'm sorry if I'm missed something or don't remember enough from before, but I'm confused and have a hard time commenting on your plans after reading through this thread. It sounds like you are getting tired and a bit frustrated (it's required), so maybe it's time to step back and look at the priority list. You've got some good parts in these plans. Maybe you can pick one or two favorite ideas and work off of them, keeping the priorities in mind.

Unless you really need that extra bathroom, and I'm guessing you just threw it in for fun, I prefer your Tue, Jan 15, 08 at 23:27 layout with a few variations. First, I think that nice laundry room would be great. I would put in a utility sink. Looks like you should have room to store your purses in there, too. I agree with rhome that you shouldn't do the little corner in the bev area. Not sure I understand the reason for the small cab next to what was before a very nice sized closet? It says pots, but that's a LONG walk to your range, so it won't be good pot storage.

What are you planning for that closet? Is that a coat closet? If yes, I would prefer to see the coat closet be the closet near the garage entry that you have as pantry, and use that nice big closet as the pantry.

I really like setting the kitchenette off on its own. Makes a great feature, and it won't look awkward next to new built in cabs.

I would swap the prep and cleanup sinks and move the cleanup sink and DW to the wall. It looks like your cleanup and prep zones are smooshed together, and you can't have someone at the range without interfering with the person at the cleanup sink.

I don't care for the U shaped cleanup zone with the kitchentte in your other versions.

HTH

lascatx: I am very flexible when it comes to layout. That is obvious with the variations in the kitchen plans. Priorities probably are not so obvious, but I do have them :) A little background may help.

Last year my husband said we could finally do some long overdue work on the house. He needs a garage; I need a kitchen. We agreed to include a sunroom. A friend (architect) drew up a conceptual plan for the kitchen, sunroom and garage. We settled on a kitchen plan, then went looking for the materials (cabinets, countertops, flooring, appliances) Well, in the end it was more than we could afford because of some major unexpected expenses. This try the budget is scaled back. No sunroom, keep the kitchen at the back of the house, expenses as low as possible and still accomplish the additions to house we need.

The house is on about a 4 foot crawl space with an unfinished basement in the middle. The new garage will be on the right side of the house. Access to the garage will be from the kitchen. In the plan, you can also see a stair to the basement that is between the garage and the house. We are taking out the current inside stair (where the big pantry is) because we dont need two basement stairs. Instead there is an entry that leads to the basement stairs, the garage, the kitchen and the outside.

My highest priority is to have a nice, functional kitchen. I dont need anything out of the ordinary:
prep space, clean up space (prep sink, clean up sink and if the tea/coffee bar is not convenient to one of these, a third sink)
storage for non-perishable food, non-refrigerated perishable food, and small appliance
baking hutch (Napanee Dutch Kitchenet it is spelled right- should stay as it is)
counter seating for 2-3 people (peeling veggies, eating a snack, working on laptop, reading)
a place to make tea, coffee, hot choc, smoothies (for commute, packed in lunch, at home 2-4x/day)
and storage for mugs, thermoses, sugars, teas, coffees, grinder, teapots, french press, strainerslots of stuff and reuse a dorm fridge/freezer for cold drinks if we can.

Appliances:
36 induction cook top (a range would be OK, but there isnt one yet) Dont care what kind of hood, but it needs to be on an outside wall.
2 ovens: one convection, one convection or conventional (can be stacked or under counter)
Microwave: countertop or shelf is fine. Built-in is too expensive to replace.
Refrigerator: will reuse Samsung Quatro Have no stand alone freezer
- Reuse FL W/D

Materials:
Stained cabinets, laminate counters (change to stone later), flooring (not carpet!@#)

We eat daily meals at a small table upstairs. The dining room is used once a week for 3-4 people. Family dinners are two or three times a year. Convenient access to the stairs is important, but direct access to the dining room is not a priority. Id also like to see outside toward the garage side of the house (the right side) and along the back of the house. There are three windows on the back side now. They need to be replaced and can be moved and/or resized. I like the island I have now; it is not a must have, but it would be nice to have one. I dont have any special focal point in mind. Simplicity is more my style

The laundry should be relocated to vent the dryer on an outside wall. I need a place in the house to hang lots of wet clothes. I need a counter to fold clothes and a place to sort dirty laundry into baskets or hampers. Storage for clothes pins and hangers, iron and ironing board. I can iron in the kitchen. And of course laundry soap etc.

The metamorphosis of the kitchen designs, as you said, have been quite varied. I realized that using the full 26 for the kitchen is too much. So what to do with the extra space? We dont really need a dining area in the kitchen or another closet. Moving the bathroom under the stair seems to make sense because it needs to be gutted and redone. Bathroom is a euphemism. The space is 36 wide and 5 long with a sloping ceiling. The narrow plumbing pipes need to be replaced and the electrical redone as well as all new fixtures, flooring, walls. A second bathroom would be available for the first floor (two three bedrooms). It would be accessible from the bedroom, the storage/garage and the kitchen. A shower would be useful for rinsing off dogs as well as humans. Plumbing is there for the current washer. A second floor plumbing chase is right beside where the shower is located. And the new bathroom is over the unfinished basement, so easy access for HVAC, plumbing and electrical.

Lastly, the remodel could easily over-improve the house for the neighborhood and the town if we aren't cautious. It should be simple, functional and good quality. We plan to be here for 10 years to life.

HTH: That plan was drawing up housefuls idea. The laundry room is larger than I need. In big house it would great.

That is a stool by the closet. We need someplace to sit and take off boots. I am sure the stairs to the garage/outside will be the primary entrance for us and the dogs. The closet will probably be a pantry.

The kitchenet would make a nice feature piece. It is in better shape than it looks in the pics. It would be more convenient near counter space, bread maker, mixer, fridge and sink. I dont want much, do I? My kitchen is so small now, Ive gotten used to turning in circles rather than having specific zones. The U-shaped clean up area is a lot bigger than now

I've been following this thread closely and have been trying to think of ideas. I also have an old house and a hoosier (stained but looks a lot like your Kitchenet) and want a period looking kitchen so this picqued my interest. IMHO, I think the Kitchenet would look best if it's not wedged in the middle of fitted cabinets. Even if the cabinets look period, I still think the kitchenet would look out of place. With that in mind there are several possibilites of using your Kitchenet. It could be baking central, hold cooking supplies, beverage or snack area, or hold message/mail stuff. I'm sure there are many other possibilites too. So I think one of the first things you need to do is figure out what you would like to use your Kitchenet for and then go from there. Do you have a vision on how you would like to use it? It's such a cool piece, it would be nice to make it a focal point of sorts.

What I did was make it my cooking center, holding spices, cooking oils, etc. and below pots and pans for cooking on my antique cookstove right next to the hoosier. I decided I wanted a modern wall oven (I like to bake) to be my main baking area and thought the hoosier would look strange next to a modern wall oven. So with that setup I have an antique stove and antique hoosier set off alone for my cooking zone. I also have an island near by with more space for pots/pans and a prep sink. (all this is not in place but hopefully will be soon, my island is arriving today!:)

You also mentioned the current bathroom is not very well designed in that you have a sloping ceiling because of the stairs. Could you repurpose that room into a pantry, mudroom or closet? And then have the new bathroom you designed be your main bathroom? I really think having two bathrooms so close together isn't a very efficient use of space.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1607728}}

One other thought..

Do you have a layout of what you have currently? Sometimes those old house layouts (ie. before years of remuddling)aren't all that far off from what would work best with families now a days.

Mom2lilenj, that's funny you should say that. I just drew an existing plan:

Your Hoosier cabinet is beautiful! I'm glad you found a use for it that you love. I really want to keep mine for baking. The flour bin holds 20# of KA bread flour. It holds everything for making bread, rolls, scones, well you get the idea.

The kitchen's cabinets are Napanee, too. An open space next to the built-in cabs is exactly the right size for the Kitchenet. It was made for it. I think it would not be historically inaccurate to place it beside a built-in cabinet. You are right, though, that is not the best place to for a standout focal point. I am going for function first, form second.

If we do the new bathroom, the old one under the stairs (in the bedroom) would become a closet.

Wow the cabinets match the kitchenet!! Is there anyway you could reuse them in your new kitchen? You can modernize them with pull outs and drawer slides to make them more convenient to use. Unless you don't like the look of the cabinets.

In any case with the Kitchenet being used for baking it should be close to the ovens (or range if you go with that). You could group those with a sink and maybe some island space for those bigger jobs.

Are you the primary cook? If so, do you like help in the kitchen or do you prefer others to keep out of your way and maybe sit a chat while you cook? You occasionally have family meals for 15, would you like some help at those times? Especially for clean up.

Like you we get a group of 20 a couple times a year and my old kitchen was WAY undersized (7'x11') to handle 6 women helping clean up. We ended up with 3 in the kitchen washing and putting away dishes and 3 in the dining room partitioning leftovers and drying dishes.

Six cooks in any size kitchen is alot! Our family dinners are always carry-in with the hostess planning the meal. Not a lot of actual cooking occurs in our kitchen. I am the only cook and bottle-washer in our house.

Please take pics of your island once it's in!

Well, I don't think I can have everything next to the right appliance. Walking across the kitchen to put something in the oven isn't a long hike. Anyway, once it is in the oven, I'll be doing prep or cooking. And those are right by the ovens.

Ironically, it is DH who insists on new cabinets. The old ones are hard to open, have no drawer guides and a few of the dovetails are coming apart. I am stripping the paint on the doors and will use new hardware. If that doesn't work well enough, the cabs can go in the old garage. I love inset reverse panel doors. Unfortunately the cabs have slab doors. So the end result will be a compromise. If I do need new cabs, I want Shaker style doors. Inset doors are expensive. Realistically, the doors will be some degree of overlay. I love painted cabs, and the one's I've checked are more expensive than stained.

We are sure about the induction cooktop. I've been using a countertop unit for six months (some of the electric coil burners quit). I just love the instant heat or not, and the timer that turns off the burner. I've gotten plenty of cookware that works on induction.

Oh they weren't all cooking they were cleaning up after a big sit down dinner.

Anyway here is the island. I'm sooo excited to get it even if my kitchen is pretty much bare other than my pie safe.
cookstove side:
{{gwi:1607773}}

and the other side:
{{gwi:1607774}}

What you described with the shaker door with a little overlay looks more like the Kitchenet door style in the picture above than the cabinets. Unless I misunderstood what the picture was. But if you do keep the cabinets a local cabinet maker could put some drawer slides and reglue the joints and you might get some more use out of those cabinets. I'm sure it would be cheaper than buying new cabinets that have the look your going for. Plus Rev-a-shelf also has cabinet inserts for pull outs you could fit in to make them easier to use. The guy who made the island is putting in drawer slides and pull out shelves in my hoosier (it's been redone a bit so I'm not too worried about messing with it).

I have a question about your current layout. By the way, it looks like a Victorian, is it? What is that little square area to the right of the bathroom? Did that used to be the side entrance? Also what is the reason for having the steps in the kitchen? If you could get those out of the kitchen that woul open up more possibilities.

Ok, here is an idea. If you can remove the set of stairs that I think were closed off in your current bathroom you could reroute your stairs from the new garage using your old bathroom as an entryway with closet, bench, and table with storage for your purses, keys, mail, etc. Then the new bathroom is about where you drew it but I closed off the duplicate doors and added a new door off of the main hallway making it convenient to the bedroom and everyone else on the first floor.

You could put your ovens in the beverage center and swap it with the fridge/broom storage.

I left what looks like a mini hallway between the dining room and your old bathroom. Not really sure what that is. If that can go away you could enlarge the closet and/or add a powder room dedicating the full bath to the bedroom.

What do you think?

Now I'm going to bed! You aren't the only one with layout on the brain. LOL:)

Oh my, your island is gorgeous! Inset reverse flat panel doors. I love the hardware. It just fits with the Hoosier. Surely it's custom made. Is that a trash pullout on the 'other' side? What is the kitchen layout? If you've posted I've long forgotten. Sorry I don't remember things like I once did.

Isn't if fun to dream? Moving walls, doors, windows, stairs capture my imagination and will not let go. Well, until DH says, ''We can not afford that.'' The plan is west (top) - north (right).Our house was once a small 1-1/2 story Victorian with a tower and modest wrap-around front porch. It was moved around 1908 and put on the crawlspace. In the intervening 100 years it has been remodeled by at least three owners, and looks very little like the original house.

In your plan, the prep/cooking/baking zones are nicely close together. :) The full 13.5' in the kitchen would be nice. I've always wanted a mud room, but really don't need one as such. The new garage must go on the north side of the house; the most useful entry point is in the kitchen were it's been in all the plans. It would be a long way to the kitchen entering in the dining room (that's a closet on the west end). We need the north bathroom (it was remodeled) as well as a second bath. So, there is no room to extend the kitchen east. Thanks for working on this.

Hi Cotehele. I was trying to reconcile your comments with mom2lilenj's drawing and I think there has been some confusion. I thought you had said that the bathroom could become a closet if you added a second bathroom. I did not realize that there were already two bathrooms on the first floor and the bigger one needs to stay because it has already been remodeled. I never saw the little one under the stairs when you did you whole house plan. I've got it now.

Have you ever thought of swapping the current DR with the bedroom? The BR is closer to the kitchen and you could open it up to the kitchen which might make for some more interesting layouts. I hate to muddy the water further, but I just was wondering.

You could go back to your Thursday 12:31 plan. Take out the door from the bath into the BR and shrink the size of the bath and move the sink. Open up the doorway into the DR (old BR) a little. You could keep half the closet in the BR (old DR). What does that do for you?

auchmedden,
That is a good thought. I'll play around with it a little.

As usual, I changed lots of things.
- The stairs to the kitchen are in the garage. (I kept the inside basement stairs & put the stairs to the kitchen where the basement stairs were in the other plans.)

-Beverage center is back.

- Cooktop is on the island. Would need to use a down-draft vent. I know some people don't like those. But I forget to use the vent I have now, anyway.

- Kept the half-bath under the stair.

I think you'd want to be able to close off the laundry. I'd do that by getting rid of the little pantry on the butler's pantry wall and bring it out even with the other so you can put in a door.

Then the island will need to be shortened just a tad for a 3 ft aisle.

I love the butler's pantry/beverage area. Do you have 30" counters in there? If so, I'd take them back to 2 ft, so you can widen the doorway coming from the kitchen, as well as the aisle in front of the counter and small fridge.

I'd swap the fridge and the pantry next to it so you can open the fridge doors into a roomier spot. You have less than 3 ft in front of it now and I don't think that's enough.

One big problem: Seating into a 3 ft aisle.

No ovens?

Rhome, I can go to sleep happy tonight. Thought I'd never read ''I love'' about my kitchen plan :D Thanks! Hope this fixes the miscues:

The W/D can stack with room for a counter.

The 42'' bar counter is 1' 8'' wide; it could still be shortened a bit if need be.

The ovens can go under counter or in a stack. I really don't care which. I think there is room for either choice.

I'd rather see an undercounter oven between the fridge and prep sink, I think, because of the counter it would offer, and a less crowded feel. There's another problem with the oven in that location, though: I've heard there is a clearance requirement for opening an oven and I don't think 3'2" would be enough. Maybe swap the pantry and the oven? It'd mean shortening the island a bit more (Looks like 3 more inches or so). I wouldn't get the counter I'd like to see, but you could have an oven stack and be able to open it. ;-)

Speaking of stacks, can you be happy with stacked washer and dryer? I worry that you had such a large laundry planned to begin with and now have such a tiny one. I'm not saying it's bad...Just checking.

Wow I totally missed that bath under the stairs. Several things I was confused about suddenly make sense.

I think your on the right track with these the last two layouts. I REALLY like getting the stairs out of the kitchen and keeping the old stairs should reduce some costs, too.

On paper I like the dining room convenient to the kitchen and the bedroom convenient to the bathroom, but does that make sense with the styles of the rooms? IE. one room more formal than the other, however if the original woodwork has been stripped out that may not matter. Another thing to consider is if you swap the dining room and bedroom are you going to keep the half bath off the dining room?

I also like where the beverage center is, great access to the dining room and the kitchen. How about if you make it an L with the long part of the L shallower like 15" or so and the short part 24" deep. It'll open up the isle a bit more and no one would get stuck in the corner with the fridge.

I think, IMHO, the island in the last layout would work better moved 3-6" south (toward the laundry) giving more room in front of the DW for someone to squeeze by if need be and I think 42-45" on the other side is still roomy.

By the way, that's so cool you know the history of your house. I've been trying to get more info about mine from a neighbor guy who lived in it from the 1920's to the 1960's. He has a wonderful memory, but has not been well.

Thanks for the compliments on my island! Yes, it is custom made. I designed it and a friend of my BIL made it. Mostly because I couldn't find what I wanted without going custom. I told him I wanted a 44"x48" 4 legged table with specific storage underneath. He is a metal worker by trade, but does woodworking as a hobbie. He likes the compariably large tolerances for woodwork(LOL). He said for him it was no harder to make inset doors than overlay doors. The "other" side which is going to be across the isle from my cleanup sink (big old wall mount cast iron job) does have a trash pull out. The first side with the doors will have a prep sink. Here is a link to my layout as of now. LOL :)

Here is a link that might be useful:

I too love that you've moved the stairs out of the kitchen and into the garage. I have been wanting to suggest that, but didn't know whether the garage was already built.

My concern with this current layout is that you don't have alot of counter space. Try this version. Working from the counter end near the entrance from the garage and moving up and then around to the left:

Kitchenet, undercounter oven, turn counter and put the sink far enough away from the oven so door can be opened, DW, prep space, prep sink, fridge and pantry.

I wouldn't have any upper cabinets on the wall with the kitchenet, but definitely a window for the view. The cooktop would stay in the island with a second oven under it or to the side. I am assuming that you want two ovens.

This setup would give you a baking area, clean-up zone, a prep zone and a cooking zone. I sketched it out on paper, but I don't know how to post it. What does anyone think?

Thanks for more good suggestions.

The ovens are under the cooktop and beside the Kitchenet near the prep area. Clearance would be OK both locations. I was not really comfortable with the cooktop in the island. I like the island a bit longer with Auchmeddens layout, but I modified it some.

Rhome, The laundry room is small, but much better than I have now. I think I can live with a stacked W/D. I will need a place where clothes can hang to dry. Ill try a rod above the countertop.

Mom2lilenj, the abstract we got with the house begins in 1832 when this end of town was a farm. One advantage of living in a small town (2,800) is that there are long memories, especially about our house and the people who lived here. Nothing significant happened in the house, but one well-known family lived here in the 1950s-70s. Another had a florist's shop in the front rooms. Also, there is a written history of the town, and an old man gave me some period post cards depicting the house c.1908 before the house was moved to the back of the lot. You might have some luck with old county histories. I hope the neighbor is able to help you learn more. When was your house built? Your kitchen plan really follows the unfitted kitchen concept with the antique stove, Hoosier hutch and pie safe. The island fits perfectly. I didnt realize it would have a prep sink.

Our (new) dining room (old bedroom) must have been a dining room at one time. We discovered an arched doorway from the LR into that room during the first remodeling in 1988. At the time it was our master bedroom. The nursery was across the hall (old DR/new BR). The florist family used it for the LR.

I really like this one. Not sure if you really need 3 sinks, but obviously up to you. You might be able to eliminate the one in the island. The one concern I have is the seating at the island and that the aisle there looks to be a traffic aisle. If people are sitting at the island, and someone wants to get by, it may be tight. Looks like you could shave a couple of inches from the overhang if need be. I don't think it would be a deal breaker though. Especially since there are only 2 of you in the house.

Also, maybe you want to eliminate the small pantry near the butlers pantry. Sometimes it's nice to have some free wall space. Just a thought....

Hi malhgold. I just read through your thread; so interesting. You have put a lot of thought into how you want the space to feel and how it will be used. I love the bay window and brick. I wish my house had elements with character. I didn't post because I honestly don't have anything helpful to add.

Three sinks does seem like overkill since we rarely entertain. The one thing that drives me insane in my current kitchen is needing to wash veggies or drain pasta or fill a pot with water. And the clean up sink if so full of dirty dishes I have to sit the pot on the counter and fill it with the sprayer or try to pour the hot water into a dish that needs a little soaking. I'm going to LOVE the prep sink or be devastated it is not as simple as it seems to have convenience and efficiency!

This kitchen has quite a bit more cabinetry than my current kitchen. I expect I'll not be able to get it all at one time. The pantry near the butler's pantry will be one that comes later with time to be live without it before I decide.

Hi Cotehele. I think this plan looks great! I am sorry that you don't have the big pantry anymore or the second bathroom. But you do have a wonderful butler's pantry!!!

Cotehele, you must be exhausted! You must be putting in a lot of time to try all these ideas, and it must be frustraing to not have it be done yet. Especially after having to put it off from the last time. Maybe it will be all the sweeter when it's done. I have an 1880 house that is boxy and closed in. I hear you about having to make "sacrifices in convenience for efficiency" to live in one of these houses. Kind of like my having to go through the entry, and the mudroom, and the laundry, and down a hall around a closet, just to get to the bathroom. And don't get me start on making the rounds to shut lights off in the house in the morning that the husband leaves on, it takes me a long time to make the curcuit around our tangled and twisted main floor.

And you must know your design program well by now. May I ask what it is? I need one, and I like how yours looks.

Good luck, I hope it all falls into place soon.

Auchmedden: It is such a challenge to keep up with this thread and the football playoffs at the same time! Thank you for your perceptive suggestions along the way.

Seedsilly: you must be a gardener. Your house sounds intriguing. Is it Georgian or Federal style or some other style? I imaging your bathroom was not originally in the house, and was added where space could be found. It is the unique things give the house its endearing charms. We do put up with it, don't we? Thanks for your good wishes. Are you planning changes to your house?

Hate to add a negative view, but the fridge is at the opposite end from all the prep areas...

Don't know how the bathroom is set up...Any chance of insetting the fridge into its wall? Having it open into the main traffic path isn't great, but I think it wrecks the idea of zones if it's so separated from where you need it while you're cooking. :-\

I think I prefer the clean up sink and DW along the north wall with a big window for what I recall was the view you wanted. Then have the cooking and baking in the center. One thing to keep in mind when you stack your W/D that the washer is on the bottom and can't be on a pedestal, so the bending you've been doing will have to continue with the washer. You could put them side by side and steal some space from the butler's pantry by recessing a shallow counter area with shelves and bins.

Actually, DH and I grew up in the same rural area as my house, so I've heard some stuff some of which are rumors (ie. so-and-so burned the big barn while out there smoking pot, LOL). My house was built in 1885 and was the only house along our road for a couple of miles around; it used to have hundreds of acres most of which was farmed. That I knew before talking to my neighbor. My neighbor let me copy a picture of him at 4 in 1922 with the old porch behind him. He told me the kitchen originally was where I'm moving it to, but when indoor plumbing was put in, the kitchen moved to the back porch. It was also a boarding home for a while. Pretty cool stuff.

Cotehele, yes, Im a gardener. Or a wanna be gardener. I plant a million seeds and manage to keep a few alive through the summer. Im not a consistent waterer. I like the planning, digging, planting part of gardening better then the upkeep and harvesting.

My house is, ah, yes, lets go with intriguing. I dont know much about house styles, but I think its probably Victorian Folk. Which I think means it was built during the Victorian era, by plain, county folk who did not have the means to embellish it at all. I think the foyer, dining room, and what we use as an office are about the only rooms original to the house. The kitchen, laundry room living room, bathroom and the upstairs were all added on in rather curious, less than effecient, amateur ways. Our roofer says he's never seen a roof line like ours. It's all over the place. Our plumber and electirican have had a few choice things to say, too. The ramshackle green house, out of tune piano, and large gone to weed yard are what drew me to this house.

I have a lot of plans, but little money!! The north run of the house is a huge laundry room, bathroom, then living room, with a hallway running along one side of it. I want to make the laundry room the kitchen, the bathroom the dining room, then open up the walls to have one large space. To do this, we first need to re-do the upstairs bathroom, as I cant stand the thought of getting ready every morning in our rust colored bathroom that has Model As (or Ts) and old Rolls Royces all over the wallpaper, all the while tripping over my 260 lb husband to get around the shower that juts out 1 ft from the toilet. And of course a structural engineer to tell us if this is possible. So, this is really a 5-10 year out plan. We might start work on the bathroom this summer, that is, after we fix the floating patio slab with the trench and the cracked concrete that is our current kitchen floor (hence the desire to move the kitchen). It is so cold in the kitchen, that hubbie uses a space heater to thaw the dish washer every day. The olive oil in the cupboard is congealed all winter long. We live in Minnesota. Ok, sorry, I know this isnt my thread. I just like to talk about my quirky house.

So yes, we do have plans to change some things!

Seedsilly, LOL about thawing the DW! We have to do the same thing. With our kitchen in what used to be a back porch we have to keep a space heater under the sink to keep the sink trap and DW from freezing and there is NO way in the winter you can walk with bare feet!

Rhome: In my imagination the work zones in the kitchen flow from fridge to the island then move from the island to kitchenet, cooking or cleanup. Its more compact that I realized, and I think it will work. The bathroom has a very small closet in the NW corner, but not large enough to sink the fridge into.

Mom2lilenj: The windows arrangement will be OK. I can look out the north window while cooking or doing prep at the island or the north counter and keep an eye on who is coming in the house or what stray dog wondered through my flower bed and scattered mulch all over! Grrrrr, does no good to go yell at the dogs. I may have room to put the W/D side by side in the final plan and change the window and counter. Ill work that out with the architect. The laundry room location is good, finally.

Thats so cool, moving your kitchen. Isnt it funny how things go back to the place there were supposed to be? Will you still have a porch? You and Seedsilly live in the deep freeze! I only have to get the heater out when the temps get below 0 and we forget to leave the sink cupboard doors open and the water dripping over night. I hope that is remedied somehow in the new kitchen! DH insisted on carpet in the kitchen because the floors were so cold. We are NOT doing that again!!

Seedsilly, I became a wanna be gardener about 5 years ago. Spring is so exhilarating when I can finally work the soil without freezing. Once it gets hot outside, and the rain doesnt come, its a chore to water and keep the plants going. Ive been trying native plants for Indiana hoping they will be better adapted to water conditions here.

You are lucky to have original rooms in your house with a paint history still on the walls! The additions are often constructed based on need and not design in old houses. Roof lines dont match, plumbing and electrical is pieced together and from a huge range of materials. Well, did you tune the piano and play it? Im sure your weedy yard is nothing of the sort now.

Oh, lots of us know about plans and little money! Youll get lots of sympathy here. Changing rooms, moving walls, switching plumbing and replacing windows are all expensive and complicated. But we dream anyway, and once in a while those dreams come true. I havent been on the bathroom forum, but old wall paper is curiously interesting. Ours had naked Roman women draped over each other and leaning on fluted columns. We saved a bit of the old paper just to laugh once in awhile. Good luck on starting construction this summer. You asked about the computer design program Ive used. It is Better Homes and Gardens Home Designer program by Chief Architect. I ordered it from Amazon. The program is one recommended by quite a few people on GW.

I have a bookmark that says "This is where I stopped to rest." This looks like a good place to take some time to mull over things and consider materials and the look of the kitchen because the hard drive my kitchen plans were stored on died today. Guess I've been working it too hard :-(

Thanks auchmedden, rhome, sarschlos remodeler, bmorepanic, malhgold, raehelen, houseful, saskatchewan girl, mkitchen, Christy, lascatx, mom2lilenj, and seedsilly, for all your help, suggestions, antedotes, and house stories. My kitchen would never have made it without you.
Cotehele

To clarify my concern: I agree with your pathway from fridge to island to..., but the problem is the dishwasher and cleanup sink interfere with that path. Maybe it's not an issue for a kitchen in which there's usually only 2 of you, but if someone is working at the main sink and dishwasher, it's tough for the cook/prepping person to get to the fridge. Anyway, maybe it's just the compromise you have to make in this space. There are always those...

Rhome, I understand your concerns. I agree that they are valid. It is a compromise. One point is sadly amiss. There are are 2 of us in the house, but only 1 (me) is ever in the kitchen. Sometimes that is good, DH is not critical or demanding about what comes out of the kitchen. Thanks.