Jack, your link doesn't seem to work.

Since you use the basement stairs often, regardless of how the kitchen layout ends up, how about considering opening up that stairwell so that visual space belongs to the kitchen, and perhaps to enhance the connection between upper and lower spaces? Any door would go at the bottom.

I would definitely change the heat on that wall and make you kitchen a galley style. You need work/prep space, on each side of your cooktop or range. And, as you said, with the kitchen open to the dining room, you no longer need a kitchen table.

I'd be tempted to leave your original plan (before wall oven) and put the wall oven, where you have the range. I'd move the cooktop (if you decide on that) over to the stair wall, but if possible, add a prep sink. You do NOT want to have traffic, between your sink and cooktop.

If you can't do a prep sink, I would leave the cooktop as is (even without the better prep space) and put the wall oven, on the stair wall, with a nice landing/baking space and maybe a pantry. Hope that helps :)

I agree that changing out the baseboard heat for toekick heaters makes the most sense. Your kitchen would function well as a galley.

If you slid the cooktop to the right a little, you could fit in a small prep sink.

I am sorry about the link not working, I do not know what I did wrong. I didn't want to simply embed the picture after having two other pictures in the posting. But here is the picture of my house layout.

As far as opening the stairway we have considered that before (perhaps put a half wall or window in the wall), but the ceiling in the stairway is framed on an angle along with the steps and there is a light under the pantry section in the ceiling. It could be done and something to think about but if we find a way to continue to use the built in pantry then it probably wouldn't look right.?

As far as the sink, we have a double bowl sink and are likely going to put a double bowl sink back. I don't think that we would necessarily need a second sink. There is not much traffic when someone is cooking but should I still plan on having the cooktop on the same wall as the sink?

As far as the heaters, I am glad to see that I was headed in the right direction about changing them to toekicks. I haven't looked into them enough to see how well they work as compared to the baseboard or what is involved in switching them. (whether we can do it ourselves?) Does anyone know whether i would need more than 1 to replace a 8' span of baseboard heat?

I never thought of putting the double ovens at the end of the sink wall and just stopping. But that just had me thinking if I continued cabinets around the corner do they make stock cabinets that would fit a double oven or cooktop in the corner? Or would something like that have to be a custom cabinet? Or would that just be more of a waste of space?

I appreciate all of the suggestions and am going to try to come up with a layout using that wall where the baseboard heaters are and just plan on replacing them.

I agree that the kitchen works best as a galley. I'd look at leaving the fridge where it is, and even trying to use the existing pantry if it works for you. Could try to use Ikea parts or something to retrofit a pull-out, perhaps.

Running the sink wall straight into the wall instead of turning the corner for the L does 2 things. It allows a longer counter run on the other side, making the other side more useful, and eliminates corner storage options. No matter the gizmos used to make corners more accessible i.e. susans, blind corner sliding contraptions, etc. - they all are more wasteful of space than straight runs with drawers.

Incidentally, I'd punch a hole in the back of the coat closet to access the closed in old pantry space and run electrical for a light in there. At 30" off the ground, it'd be the perfect little reading hidey-hole/fort/play space for a small child back behind the coats in the wardrobe a la Narnia, or good out of season storage for large tubs of stuff that only gets pulled out and put away twice a year.

Do you have hot water baseboard or electric baseboard heat? Turbonics makes a toekick heater that can be tied into an existing hwbb system fairly easily with an adapter thingy.

Again I appreciate all help and suggestions. I just drew two layouts that use the stair wall They are basically the same one but moving around appliances. In the first one leaves the refrigerator where it has been and the wall ovens but moves the cooktop on the stair wall and allow me to try to use the existing pantry with the pullout drawer slides I bought. Looking at that design in 3d it looks like it would appear more opened up if the refrigerator was moved along one of the other walls. It doesn't really fit at the end of the L without being too close to the corner or the stairway. I seen what you meant about having more usable space on the stairway wall if I didn't turn the corner, but to me it seems that I am losing cabinet space and countertop space by going with the Galley style but I just seen your suggestion about it eliminating the need for corner storage and having more usable space on other wall. It also looks more closed in on the drawing perhaps because the tall wide pantry and refrigerator near the front blocking view between dining room and kitchen. That is why I tried to incorporate your idea of putting 1 of the major appliances on the stair wall but also keeping the L shape in the back corner. I also think a L shape looks better than a galley style but need to consider it a little more.

As far as punching a hole in the back of the closet... we were thinking that if there was no way we could use it in the kitchen then we would/will open it up into the closet. The only problem is that is a lot of kitchen storage we would be losing in the kitchen.

As far as the heat, they are hot water baseboards which is why I was unsure how involved it would be to change them to toekicks. I am not as familiar working with plumbing as I am with other aspects that would be involved in the kitchen remodel.

Here are my two designs (like I said they are basically the same) Let me know what you all think and I need to look harder at a galley style to see whether that is the direction we want to go.

I like the way you wrapped the corner into the dining room in new layout #2, but I don't love that you'd end up prepping over the dishwasher. Most prep tends to happen between the water source and the cooktop. It's unlikely that you would wash veg, then carry them across the stove or over to one of the larger counter areas to work only to bring them back to the cooktop. That means that a spouse or child would need you to move every time they wanted access to the dishwasher which makes this version more of a one-butt kitchen.

Both versions use 12"base cabinets to fill in space around the larger items(ovens, susan, etc.) 12" base cabs are pretty useless. The interior width of a drawer in a 12" cab is about 6.5-8.5" (12 - 1.5 for cabinet sides - 1.5 for drawer sides - space for drawer motion - cabinet face frame if using framed cabs.)

Of the 2, I like the first one better.

Was it only because the prep beside the cooktop was over the dishwasher that you didnt like it? Or is 24" not enough prep between the sink and cooktop? I think I also like the countertop wrapping the corner better, still unsure.

I dont know whether I liked the refrigerator where it was in the first layout (that is why I changed it in the second). It feels like it closes it in more and when the door is open it would narrow the walkway into the kitchen similar to how it does now. However I like the fact you can get something from the refrigerator without disturbing someone cooking in the kitchen. I dont know the best spot for the refrigerator?

As far as the 12" cabinets, I felt that they were kind of small also,(probably using framed cabinets) but was mainly trying to find the best spots for the large appliances first.

Jack,

Would you please let me know what direction the walls are facing so that the walls are easier to reference when I write about them? For example, is the wall on which the window is located east, west, etc?

Thank you.

Rob

Rob, the north side(geographically is on the bottom) if it matters as far as the sun and the window. Otherwise to refer to the walls you can use that or the placement on the drawing (make top north), just let me know or I can probably figure it out based on your advice.

We have still been thinking about all of our options, and trying to find out where we want to place the major appliances before I make any more layouts. I mainly posted a couple of our initial thoughts to try to get as much feedback and advice as I could. We are still open to any suggestions anyone might have.

We thought about using the pantry as the inset for the double wall oven and have the oven flush with the wall. That would eliminate the need to move/switch the heater, but would also eliminate a lot of extra storage/countertop space. Like I said we have been thinking about this off and on for awhile. We mainly were looking for any suggestions that we may not have thought of and what everyone thought would work best if/when we do decide to redo the kitchen.

I'd recommend knocking out the wall from the lvg. rm., so you can enter into the kitchen/basement as well as have a circular 'flow' to the rooms and have less traffic running thru the kitchen to get to the basement.