I hate to throw a wrench in your plans, but I doubt moving their toys upstairs will mean they'll play up there. They're too young yet and will be for quite awhile. We had a basement rec room in our last house and no one ever played there...It was too far from where I was. I'd have thought that with so many of them, they'd have enough company to want to stay and play in a bigger, more dedicated space, but no. The toys just ended up in the room next to the kitchen and where the TV was. Is there another place on the main floor for playing? If not, I think you're planning for something that may not work with your family and could end up to be a frustration.

I have to agree with rhome on the playroom issue. We had the toys all upstairs in our previous house, but my DD just dragged them all downstairs. Wound up storing toys in baskets and sideboards and cabinets and closets throughout the dining/kitchen/family rooms downstairs. We now have a playroom right off of the family room -- and I still have toys stashed in the rooms where we are. Play room is pretty much just a giant toy closet.

Hiya there, Rhome! I understand what you're saying completely. Let me elaborate some...

I don't plan on banning toys or playing completely from the first floor. I love to be involved in their play and I plan on having some "stashed" here and there for them, but the BULK of them will stay upstairs.

I have really let the kids "take over" the whole 1st floor of the house and it is out of hand. Time for some "grown up" zones!

I know they will still want to play wherever I am, and I am fine with that. I just no longer want to dedicate a whole room on our first floor to just toys.

They "act" excited about the thoughts of their new "kid lounge" as my 9 y.o. calls it, so I think I'm just going to go for it.

And... whether or not I keep the toys up or down, it doesn't change the fact that I am short on the right side of the kitchen for seating for 5.

Rhome is right. We finished a third of our basement and set it up as a playroom with a TV for GameCube (& now Wii) plus a huge closet for their toys. Guess what...even now, with children 11 & 13 they still prefer to play upstairs with me. My DD who still likes to play w/her dolls & dollhouses (and Webkinz, of course!), will haul everything up to the FR and play. However, I have to say that it doesn't bother me as long as she puts her things away in the evening, or at least consolidates them if she's planning on playing with them in the morning. My DS brings his K'Nex & Legos up. They also both bring up the game cnosoles & games! The basement game room has turned out to be a place for my DH to watch his movies...and not much else!

Your children are younger. To be honest, when my children were that age I preferred to have them upstairs...we also used our DR as a playroom back then! We've only turned our DR back into a DR in the last 2 years or so.

I have a suggestion:

Your FR appears to be 15' x 18', How would you feel about setting aside a 9' or 10' section as a playroom...the north side. Then, put in a pass through b/w that section & the kitchen where the sink is so you can watch the kiddos and they can see you. If you raise it a few inches and put in a 9" or so counter (5" would be in the "wall"), you could use it to pass back & forth sippy cups & snacks. You could put in low shelving for toy storage, etc. (Put a narrow bookcase (4"??) under the pass through counter in the FR so the little ones don't bump their heads on the 4" or so that will extend past the wall.)

The "separation" could be actual walls or you could arrange furniture, use screens, etc. to create the separation.

Yes, toys will migrate out of that area, but that will happen no matter where the playroom is. At least this way you have an area set aside where the kids can take their toys back to that's nearby. I think you'll find that you'll be much happier w/this arrangement rather than creating a second playroom upstairs. Besides, I would think you'd want to keep a closer eye on the younger kids..which you cannot do if you're on different floors.

Beuhl - we may have cross posted, but at any rate...

I don't have a problem with toys on the first floor, really. The issue is more that I don't have room for the dining table on the other side of the kitchen, so I would like my DR back NOW rather than later. (and like you said... if they all "play" until they are 11 or so, I'll be waiting a long time for that DR if they use it exclusively for toy storage)

Your suggestion about storing toys in the FR is a good one! I have actually been "toying" with that idea myself today. The upstairs kid lounge may or may not happen. But, all that aside, it doesn't change the fact that I don't have enough room for seating for 5 on the other side of the kitchen.

And I am kind-of excited about the computer being in the kitchen! I go back and forth to it ALL THE TIME from the kitchen for recipes... with the daily mail, to pay bills, to check on whats going on in Webkinz World... hehe... so this seemed to solve a lot of issues for me.

The kids are both in activities 2 and 3 evenings per week, so I think there will be a lot of eating dinners quickly at the island for them, and the other nights of the week we can go have a nice meal together in our DR. Even if there is a toybox stashed somewhere...

Does this clear up my intentions some? I think I came across as if I was going to banish all kids/playing/toys to the East Wing from now on. Not really what I was going for. ;)

Cross posted!

You're right...I think to accommodate 5 seats even w/a tight fit you need to add a foot to the length of your island. You will still have over 5-1/2 feet of aisle space b/w the desk & island.

When calculating aisle space, don't forget to account for the 1 to 1-1/4 inch counter overhang beyond the cabinets.

I'd also reduce the depth of the island cabinetry from 30" to 27" to account for that overhang...so you don't take any additional inches off the aisle b/w the island & north wall. The recovered inch or two could go on the seating side (bottom) of the island to give you a little more room b/w the pantry and the island.

The pantry...if you are drywalling your pantry, remember that walls are 4 to 5 inches wide/deep. So, that means that if you have 42" set aside for the pantry width, the walls will take away 9 or 10 inches...you're down to 33", tops. That's not very wide, especially if you're using it for bulk items and b/c it's not really very deep either...2'? You'd be better off, I think, making the pantry wider, say 5' (60" - 9" = 51") and make it 18 to 24 inches deep with bi-fold doors. You could then put the china cabinet on that wall.

Question: If you're using the uppers/lowers for food storage on the north wall, will you have enough room elsewhere for your dishes, storage (tupperware, etc.), pots & pans, cooking utensils, kitchen linens, prep dishes (mixing bowls, measuring cups), etc.

I think that if you make the pantry bigger as I suggested, you may be able to store both food and bulk items in it. That frees up the cabinets for other uses/storage.

Or...you could put in 12" deep pantry cabinets to the left of the desk armoire...

HTH!

Beuhl - Yes, we cross posted twice, I think! :)

I am going to go check out that wall where the pantry will go... you've got me thinking...

Cross posted again! (I take too long to compose messages!)

I like your idea of the computer in the kitchen...not just for you but when the kids are on it you can keep an eye on what they're doing (and where they're going!). We have the computer in the den right off the kitchen/DR/LR (visible from all 3!) so I can keep an eye on them when they're on the computer even (or especially) at their age.

We've been telling them for years that they will not have computers, TVs, or telephones in their rooms. Yes, they can take the phone to another room for some privacy, but they will not have their own line or dedicated phone in their rooms! Even laptops stay downstairs!

Beuhl - you're my kinda parent! We honor the same exact rules.

The computer is a scary, scary medium.

I do sometimes think about eventually having a laptop that is NOT internet ready just for the purpose of typing up homework, and possibly using it to browse an encyclopedia on CD or DVD for research.

OK, we all lectured on the playroom move, but nothing about the kitchen, right? ;-)

Island: I'm not seeing 5 seated at it that size. Could you stretch it toward the desk? How do you plan the cabinets under the island? With standard cabs at 24" deep, I'm not sure what you have in mind. Also, I'd think you could now make use of the wall where the table was a bit more efficiently than the lone desk. :-)

Doorway...At first when you said 'remove it completely,' I thought you meant close it up! But I think you mean remove the wall and have it all the way open. Since I think you wanted something kind of open, and since it's now your only path to the family room, I think I'd leave it 4 or 5 ft wide. And doesn't your house have cased doorways? I would emulate whatever you have going on with the style of your house. If you have cased doorways between rooms, an open wall wouldn't be consistent.

Fridge/pantry: If they can be together, great. If they can't, it's not one of those things I see as the end of the world. My last pantry was in the basement. I was just glad to have it.

12" pantry closet: For your purposes, sounds great.

Cookbook shelf over sink: Mine aren't that neat looking, and I wouldn't want them getting damp from steam or falling into the sink...So not sure on that one. The plate rack would feel more open, but I can see the cookbook shelf being more usable and practical.

Rhome - thats ok, I liked the lecturing and it definitely had its purpose.

The cabinet under the island was planned at being 36" wide and 30" deep. Silverware/cutlery in top drawer, wraps and baggies in middle drawer, tuppeware in bottom drawer. I may reduce the depth to 27". Do you think that would work well?

Yes, I could stretch it towards the desk to fit more seats. How far do you think I could go and still keep plenty of room for traffic and an "open" feel?

You have a great point about the cased doorway, thank you -

I never thought about them falling into the sink... yikes. (cookbooks) I'll have to keep pondering this. Or plan on a shelf and play with the useages of the shelf after the fact. I could put baskets on it to hold vitamins and medicine perhaps...

BTW - I do have pots and pans planned for the 30" base cab to the right of the range, and cooking utensils planned for the 12" drawer stack to the left of the range. (someone asked about pots and pans, I think it was Beuhl?)

You appear to have a 6" something on the left side of the island...that could be for cookbooks...it would have to be wider, but if you extend the island the extra foot I mentioned, you could put in a 12" deep cabinet w/doors and use it as your cookbook storage. Mine isn't neat either...the books are fine but the pieces of paper w/recipes and notes, etc. aren't so neat! I put them in a cabinet that I can close!

Beuhl - I plan on storing all the other "stuff" you mentioned in my corner cabs, upper and lower. I also have the 24" upper to the left of the range for my baking ingredients. I am planning on using the two 21" cabs for dish/glassware storage, above the sink.

I also have two 12" drawer stacks planned. I know they aren't really the ideal size, but I think I can find uses for them (dish towels, measuring cups, cooking utensils, etc)

Beuhl - yes, I put the 6" overhang on the island just to hide plugmold I want there (under the island top) and maybe just to conceal the trash can a wee bit. (I am opting out of a trash pull-out, and putting it against the island, between sink and island)