Wise? Not sure. But how much of all that range territory do you expect to have hot at one time? I can't remember if it was Lacanche, but I've seen that style large range with a prep area on the surface. If you're cooking for 100 you're going to need table space. Even fifty, really. Cooking for fifty with limited counter space takes a good sized breakfast table, plus a buffet table in another room. And the top of the dryer.

Landing areas: You need a place to put the stuff going into the pot and out of the range. If you're only using a couple of burners at a time, again, the range itself can providde part of that. If you're baking/roasting in both ovens you can land on cold burners. But if you're cooking for fifty you need a table, a cart, a something.

Re design: Small spaces look better with a few large things rather than a lot of small things. A big range is a good start. Add a big table (can be counter height), a big dresser-hutch, and a sinkboard and you're good to go. Oh. And a fridge, I guess. :D

Going with a French range, I hope you're picking it for looks, not function.

The French are great at cooking. Engineering? Not so much.

Umm rey you obviously know nothing about lacanche. I have one and will be buying another and they're fabulous. Molteni is another wonderful range, La Cornue is another...sheesh you've got to be kidding, they're the three top of the line ranges available!

::Shaking head:: (some people think they know too much).

Umm anyhoo, back to the reasonble OT....

My kitchen in the townhouse is about 13x15...I have a litte more space than you, but not much. We went with a cluny 1400 and love how it works in the space. On the left side we have just a 12" wide counter and on the right it eats up the rest of the space to the sink. With a very small island (33x43) it works amazingly well, and DH says it would still work if he didn't have the island. We rarely entertain more than 50 at a time, but it's worked for big and small parties. WE just dedicated the wall to this (we don't have the doors you have but we had a challenge of two walls full of windows).

I seriously worried about how we would fit a 55 1/2" stove into this small kitchen and I have to say...it's a dream. Fits fine, obviously it's the focal point, but even though it's still huge, people notice the view as well :)

in our winter house, a 1889 victorian we'll be doing much the same but instead of the backsplash of chickens we will keep it period with subways etc (it's a national register home with some rules attached). I am going to go even bigger in that house and tuck it under the old servant's stairs.

As to the quality of the range itself...let me say, our budget was unlimited when it came to the range and we have NO ISSUES with our french range, nor with the choice. The Lacanche met all our needs (DH is a fabulous chef and I'm an award winning baker). You will absolutely adore the Lacanche! Best bang for the buck out there and the style is perfect for your period home.

I don't know what you have planned for a hood but ours in the pic above is just a vent a hood remade to fit the lacanche (I had it made deeper and a bit longer since they're not on the metric system) and then covered with marine grade plywood, drywall and a plaster mix we had an artist do. I added the granite to pull in the black from other areas of the house and the wood trim. Easy sleazy and I think highlighting the range like this really is what makes the space work so well.

In the appliance forum visit the lacanche threads (do a search if that works). You'll see many pics of smaller kitchens that worked in the big boys :) and they're lovely.

I can't wait to see what you do with it!!! Please be sure to share pics later!

I meant to post the rest of that counter run:

it's really not a huge space but it works wonderfully.

I should say that when I was talking about all those surfaces for feeding fifty, I was referring to much less counter space than Igloochic has in that kitchen. Hers is a great example of how to make it all work.

Notice, though, that IglooChic has a long run of counter on one side and that the short run (12") side is against a wall w/no windows and no door immediately next to it.

The best you can do is:

1" filler b/w wall & first cab + 15" cab on the wall side + 55.5" range + 24" cab on other side + 1" overhang (not the normal 1.5") = 96.5"

BUT, that does not leave room for door trim...do you have trim around your doorways? If so, how wide is it? 2"?

Is there a 48" range instead? That would allow you to have a nice large range (18" wider than the "standard" 30") and still have room for 18" and 24" of work & landing space plus "breathing room" around the DR doorway:

1" filler + 18" cab + 48" range + 24" cab + 1.5" overhang + 4" to doorway = 96.5"

I have to be honest, I don't agree that small kitchens with large items look better/bigger. I think you need to be careful b/c a large item can overpower a room and dwarf everything else...including the look & feel of the room.

Oh, and many of those people with "...ranges without generous counter space on either side..." are tearing them out and putting in new kitchens that have decent counter work & landing space around their ranges.

Also, if you're looking at magazine or kitchen website pictures, understand that most of those pictures are for "looks" only, not function. I can't tell you how many times I've looked at Kitchen magazines and cringed at what I saw...sure they look nice enough, but I wouldn't want to cook in them! It's the old "form over function" choice (sort of like the attitude of "looks are more important than personality" in a person). Personally, I prefer "function over form". That doesn't mean "form" or "looks" aren't important, but they take a backseat to "function".

However, if you don't plan to do much cooking, your kitchen is only for "looks", and/or form is more important than function to you, then go ahead. BTW...that's a valid choice, but be honest with yourself and then plan your kitchen accordingly.

Dear jcoxmd,

The Lacanche is a beauty and I can understand why you would want one for your historic, unfitted kitchen. But here are my two cents worth based on my similar sized 80 year old kitchen and my experience with cooking on my new range (I've just replaced a very 'unfitted' 39" Chambers B range.)

It sounds like you could easily fit a 36" range. And even a 39" or possibly 48" might work. But 55" seems a a bit too large for the size of your space. Most important, the idea of using the range itself as a work surface sounds charming in theory, but could be problematic from a functional point of view. Maybe it is just my style of cooking, but there are so many things I need to do next to the range when I cook (moving back and forth between the stove top and mixer or blender, prep work, chopping, mixing ingredients), that I would not want to do on/over the stove. Even something as simple as mixing pancake batter is something I want to do next to the stove, not on the stove.

Most important (perhaps in my mind because I'm still trying to keep my new range looking gorgeous) prepping on the stovetop means a lot of extra time has to go into cleaning the stove top. I'd much rather run a dishrag once over the counter to clean up bits of garlic, drops of oil, tomato sauce, cocoa powder, etc. than have to clean the whole range top to clean all the spills and splatters. (Not that the whole range top doesn't get wiped down everytime I cook -- but it would be even harder to keep clean if I prepped on it.)

OMG, cooking for 100? Not in my lifetime! Thank you everyone for the input...I will work on getting some drawings up this weekend. To answer a few things, I am completely interested in function (one of the most attractive things about the lacanche to me is that the work "workhorse" keeps coming up in the discussions. The fewer electronic doodads the better. When they carry me out of this house I want the range to still be there.) I do cook a lot ,currently in my little maytag gemini, and both ovens are going several times a week.
I didn't count the door frame in my measurements-these are almost 6 inches (to clarify, the 96.5 does not include that). I was also planning on having a run of counter on the wall perpendicular to the left of the range. This would be 4-5 feet depending on how I configure it. So it's right BY the range... I wouldn't use rangetop as a work surface- I'm too lazy to want to clean that up!
The next smaller lacanche is 44", and I suspect I'd be happy with that as well. (Could more thoroughly obsess about oven sizes if the search function was working.) That 10"...better as range, or better as counter?

I'd do it in a heartbeat. I can always work the layout around it.

I'd love to see the layout, it sounds interesting and I like small kitchen challenges.

If you want double ovens, and given what sounds like limited wall area, a big range might be the more efficient way to get it. I think a big range can serve as its own landing area too, except for truly big cooking projects.

I don't know what the burner surface of the LaCanche looks like but if you can place a large cutting board on, say, 1/3 of it while using the other 2/3rd for day to day cooking, you might get a useful and easy to clean work surface? I'm sort of envisioning a thick wood board with grooves routed in the underside that mate up with the LaCanche burners to hold the board securely in place, well away from the working burners. An odd idea, I know, and not one for the absent-minded.

Guys that's not as big of a work space as you think. The cabinet on the side is 12" (pot filler is in that wall with the soup burner on that side by the way) then 55 1/2" lacanche, 27" cabinet and an 18" cabinet then the sink. Because the sink is there we lose a great deal of that space to dirty dishes when cooking (DH is a slob...but a great cook) so he's really only working on the island behind him, and about 3' of the stainless run in front of the window at most. He'd be in heaven to have a 4 or 5' run on the side of his work space. The 12" counter is really just an ingredient and utensil parking spot. We lose about 2' of the space of that kitchen run to the powder room (backside of that wall). It's a pretty compact space actually.

Everyone said it would overwhelm the space and perhaps if I'd have gotten it in purple it might have :) but in black, though it's huge, it screams "this is the kitchen" but that's about all it screams :) We do use the french top as a work surface (they can make you a stainless cover for that and the soup burner which is nice...we move those around all the time). And in this featured stove we also get the warming cabinet which was going to go in the drawer bank next to the stove.

I did push out that counter a bit to a 27" debth (cabinets are deeper) but that's not always necessary. Really though, we're working in less than the space the OP is planning on and it works wonderfully, even for huge parties :)

And johnliu, because they make the stainless burner cover you don't even need to notch out a cutting board :) We tend to have one or two on all the time and use the surfaces as resting spots, spoons, other ingredients, etc. Works like a dream!

I think what would not have worked in my kitchen would have been to try to do a cabinet and integrated hood. The area would have felt quite unbalanced. In this case, the stove is on one side, with the windows and then on the other two sides we have uppers to the ceiling as well as a subzero etc, so it balances out the space weight wise.

I have a 40"/1m Lacanche and don't regularly use all the burners. I keep the simmer plate on the lefthand side and often use that as landing space. I don't prep there though.

I am dying for a Lacanche-style range but I only want an induction cooktop and electric oven.

I think those massive blast-furnace ranges are out of place. A 55" gets to be massive. I would much rather have a workable range, and landing zones on each side for prep, oils and s/p. I really don't like a kitchen where there is an oversized range.

I would do it and make it work if it was at all possible! It will help when we see the layout. All things aren't possible, but we can sure give it a good shot. I often keep a 2 burner griddle pan on my rangetop and use it for 'landing space.' Igloo's kitchen is a great example. The space is not at all overwhelmed by the range, and is much more special because of it. A kitchen is for cooking and baking and the tool that makes those things possible takes a top spot on the priority list, even if it's a little more about passion than necessity. Passion should not be ignored. :-)

Often when ranges have little space on either side, there is an island where prep work can be done, as in Igoo's kitchen. I assume you won't have an island, so I guess you could end up with 12" on one side and 24" on the other. That's not much prep space. Why do you want the 55" instead of the 44"? Do you need that many burners? Want 6 burners and french top? Two ovens and warming cupboard? Is it worth giving any of these up for another foot of counter? We have the Volnay and haven't used all 5 burners at once yet. We love the warming cupboard and larger oven, but have an another wall oven or else we'd have gone with the Cluny.

As to function: I was worried that I made a foolish impulse purchase when we bought our Lacanche but I couldn't have been more wrong. The burners on our range are AMAZING!!! A pure joy to cook on and very powerful. Can't say much about the oven as we use the Gagg for most things. Keep in mind, though, that the burners don't have an automatic gas shut off if the flame is extinguished. Our simmers went out several times and it was a pretty scary.

By the way, these ranges can be configured with induction hobs if you buy a European model. Maybe one will eventually be available here.

I have cooked for fifty (with one or two others working as well) in a tiny galley with 24"x30" prep area by the sink (over DW, with wall inc. because of small passthrough, next to fridge), 55" of cooktop with about 15-18" of counter on one side (mixer, cuisinart, juicer live there) and wall oven on the other, and about 4-5' of pantry counter and the other oven across the aisle. Spare fridge upstairs. Freezers in garage. Portable oven (similar to the "roasting ovens" now available) on the dryer for potatoes. Breakfast room table for plating and staging. Breakfast room counter for bar and coffee. Dining room table for buffet. Dining room sideboard for dessert. Thinking it through more, the breakfast room things could be done in the dining room as well, just with more cross traffic. That's just a family party.

As I said, the cooking surface becomes a landing area for prep and baking. Some work is done in shifts. It's easier if some things can be made ahead and frozen. It really works! Small kitchens can be very efficient if you use them efficiently. You said you had enough storage. I actually reduced my huge expanses of counter space from my old kitchen to new, because to me it was wasted space.

Since you won't be cooking for fifty, you should have plenty of space on the stove for pulling out your roast and setting it down. If you have a place next to the range to set down things that shouldn't be put on ranges (e.g., anything plastic), and you have a good prep area, and a landing space for the fridge, you're good to go.

Good grief, Igloochic, you do try to be nasty, don't you?

"Top of the line" and "expensive" are not the same things.

Try asking about French ranges at a site that specializing in cooking rather than kitchen design. I was very briefly interested in French and Italian ranges, but not after lurking of few months on a number of cooking boards. Wolf or Bluestar for me, now, and Bluestar has the best burner for wok cooking AND the only 60" range that holds two full sheet pans.

Well, I love my Lacanche and it functions beautifully. And I do cook for 100 from time to time, and 30-40 quite often. "Engineering"?? Perhaps not, it's the same as it's been for 100 years? That's fine with me, I don't need or want fancy engineered when I cook.

Getting back to the OP's question...I struggled with this too because I really wanted the warming cabinet. My kitchen is roughly 13 X 14. In the end, I decided to go with the 39" Cluny and not get the warming cupboard. I do somewhat still regret it, but not that much. But I wanted to tell you that aesthetically, the space could have certainly handled the larger range in my space. Just make sure you've got counter space, preferably on both sides of the stove. Then again, maybe one side alone would work for you. It would not work for me, I need elbow room. But everyone's different.

The kitchen portion of my eat-in kitchen is smaller than yours (10x11 in a 10x21 space), and I'll be putting in a 44" Aga. If you love it, I think you should try to make it happen. Because the European ranges don't look as muscular as the American pro-style ranges, they don't dominate the room quite so much. I look forward to seeing your space develop. It sounds like it's going to be gorgeous!

And cooking for 50 or 100!! I bow down to you guys. I guess I've done parties for 40ish, but it was only hors d'oeuvres and and kiddie foods.

Yikes, I am pretty sure some of this is not what jcoxmd expected when writing her post...as well she shouldn't have.

A lot of people here with personal experience have been impressed with the quality and performance of their Lacanche ranges. An assumption or inference that we care only about kitchen design without regard to cooking achievement or the performance of our tools would be, at the least, incorrect. Opinions are only that, on any forum, and where such research may lead one to a BlueStar, another may come to other conclusions and choose a Lacanche. Neither wrong...Just different.

I hope we get back to the OP, so she doesn't go off with a bad taste in her mouth about posting here. I, for one, am excited to see if you can have a plan that functions well, but also includes the dream range... and it's easy to see that others feel the same.

My kitchen is 11" x 14". Because of a wall of windows at one end and an entrance/doorway at the other, the style is galley. Before the reno, my kitchen was basically unfitted with 2 tables (small dining and bakers'), 1 hutch unit and a 3-cabinet run of uppers above a base sink and dw. I had a 6-burner, double oven Smoothtop range (circa 1923) that was 54" in width and was adjacent to the sink/dishwasher. I must tell you that, after 21 years of constantly searching for landing pads and prep space in my kitchen, the #1 aim of my reno was to get some! Now, Of course I used the empty burners on my big old range as a landing pad. But I hated it! The one bit of countertop space I had, 24" above the dw, was never satisfactory. It, along with the 2 dining and bakers tabletop surfaces I had, were always loaded down with other standard items like a paper towel holder, utensils crock, toaster, telephone, flower vase, etc., so the space to prepare meals was always extremely limited.

Unfortunately, my antique range which was supposed to be the focal point of the reno did not survive the remodel due an assault upon it by an incompetent plumber. When I realized I would have to replace it, I was intent on doing so with a range that would at least be equivalent in cooking capacity to the 6 burner, double oven range it would be replacing and be appropriate, design-wise, to the age of my 100 year old house. I ended up choosing an Aga 6-4 -- a range that is only 39" in size. The scale down of the range size from 54" to 39" made a significant difference in giving me the counter space I was seeking. BTW, I don't think that my 54" antiquee range in any way, appearance-wise, overwhelmed my small kitchen space but it absolutely did hog the surface area available to me for working.

I definitely understand your kitchen size limitations, the desire not to butcher the house's original footprint and to do a reno that honors the age of your 120 year old home. So, without a doubt, I think a Lacanche and unfitted kitchen furniture will be beautiful and appropriate! My primary advice, however, would be to scale back on the size of the Lacanche you'll be getting. IMHO, the 11" in difference between the 55" Lacanche and the 44" will be tremendous in a kitchen of your size and my hunch is that, when all is said and done, you'll appreciate having more food prep and landing space over that of more cooking capacity -- especially where the 44" range is hardly chopped liver! :-)

Good luck!

Hey girls, take it outside. ;-)

JCox, I have a 12x11 kitchen with three doors and a 40" vintage range with a 15" wide center griddle that gives me some nice flat setdown space. The thing to remember is that the top does get a tad warm regardless which burner is on, so it's not ideal for everything. But the idea of a wooden or stainless hob cover is an excellent one.

I agree with Pillog (no surprise): if you're going to have big objects in a small space, make it only a few of them. Don't do many wall cabinets, if any. You don't want to box in that range visually but rather let it speak for itself.

Have fun!

JCox, While landing area is great if you have room, I wouldn't choose it over a large range unless you're cooking for the multitudes. I too have an old home with limited counter space & a 36" range (bigger would have been better but just no room). However the only place where it would fit (by barely 1/2") is between a door & a large window that starts 18" off the floor. For landing area, I use a Boos free-standing butcher block - it's the right height & doesn't visually block the window - but mostly I use part of the stove top that's not in use. I also have a large table instead of an island that performs multiple duties. Since you'll have approx 40" of excess space, I would keep it all to one side of the range & not break it up, regardless of whether you choose cabinets or a free standing table, rolling cart, or whatever.

Another consideration for a range that's probably going to be used for prep, landing, etc. is an electrical outlet placed above burner height but very close to the stove's 'work area'; you'll be surprised how often you use it!
HTH

Hi jcoxmd --

I also have an old, quirky house and a mostly unfitted kitchen.

I agree that the stove can serve as its own landing space, and its own storage space too -- I keep a couple of LeCreusets on top and assorted items in the oven.

I also agree that a modest-size kitchen doesn't mean "Welcome To The Itty Bitty House".

Function is good, but I'm also a shameless chocolate-for-breakfast aestheticist. I'll admit I go for some stuff just because it's pretty. If form were everything we'd all have kitchens that looked like industrial ones and hosed clean into a giant drain in the floor. But we don't.

Do you NEED the 55 inch? Probably not. But hey. It's your kitchen. The key question -- is the 55" a big, bold anchoring presence, or is it out of scale, and the 44 inch is the right choice?

It might help to go to the Web site, get every measurement, including how far the knobs or leading edges or feet protrude, then measure it out on the floor. Factor in any clearances from the walls it would require. Some people even mock things up with boxes, just so it feels 3-d, not something you can see through. Try it again with the 44. Which feels better? Are there any weight concerns with the floor?

It would help to know if the 55" has some feature you especially want (people here seem to know a lot about the ovens, for example), how many people you usually cook for, what kind of cooking (a lot of baking? cooking for a couple or once weekly family dinners for 20 with 4 cooks?). It's not a test -- nobody's going to tell you you don't "deserve" to have what you want.

And, just a note: The idea of leaving a large cutting board semipermanently over a set of burners scares me. Too easy to turn on the wrong burner while you're distracted. I broke a dish like that recently!

Good luck with your choice!

I will say this....as to the cluny 1400 we do rarely use both ovens at the same time and I would have been just as happy with a larger oven and the warming cupboard. I'd sacrifice an oven any day for that warming cupboard. It really makes life so much easier!

We don't "prep" as in cutting veggies etc on the stove top. What we do instead is perhaps have a pot sitting on the stove which we might be filling with goodies from the counter next to it then it gets slid over to another burner for actual cooking (further away from the work space). Or resting items, spoons, food etc.

We have had stove discussions before and one thing to consider is how you cook. Are you a baker...well if so maybe you HAVE to have two ovens and the cooktop isn't the priority. If you're a top of the stove cook, then you need to be thinking of that. For us, we would never go without that wonderful french top burner in a new range. It's a fabulous wok space (since the center comes out) and is also wonderful for resting and keeping dishes warm then quickly sliding them to the center to finish.

It would be nice to see your floor plan if you get a chance. But as to the perfect stove for your 100 year old kitchen...lacanche is it ;) You get function and look appropriate to any chef and any antique kitchen. And really, they're the best deal out there when it comes to form and function and cost. Molteni and LaCornue are wonderful...but three times the cost of a lacanche. Are they worth it? Well emeril and other chefs will say yes, but since we're not quite to that level we're fine with our lovely lacanche. :)

Igloochic,

This is totally off-topic but where did you get the squirrel and moose head pulls? So cool.

Ok, "original poster" here (took me a while, but I figured it out.) I've been lurking long enough and fretting about the range to have expected some strong opinions-and I appreciate everyone taking the time to chime in, actually! I will post a blank layout of the room this weekend and see what suggestions that inspires.
I haven't visited the site all day because I've been at work (still here, ran to the science fair now back!) but that in itself helps me clarify my cooking style. Love to spend hours baking or working on a special meal for friends on the weekends. Many weekdays, frequently home with 30 minutes to an hour to assemble healthy meal for 5, and I have found 2 ovens helpful for this, as well as for entertaining. Having the ovens be a little larger seems like a good idea if it will work in the space.I don't need a plethora of burners, but need them to work well.
Again, I am astonished by all the help, and I'll post a new thread with my best effort at a drawing soon. Can't wait to get ideas!

If you're an oven user you'll love having two :) but if you've never used a warming cabinet...get ready for sheer bliss. We use that thing so much more than we ever thought we would.

I'm working on an unfitted kitchen for my 120 year old house as well and I know some of the challenges. I have 5 doors as well as a couple of fun plumbing cooridors to work around (one in the old dumb waiter and one in the old servants staircase) Servants were supposed to be using all of those doors...but I can't find the danged servants!

I just toured a fabulous kitchen that a builder I'm considering did. They did a wonderful island that looks exactly like an old store counter. Great idea for a functional island (which we want) but not the look of a modern island (which we want as well).

It's a lot of fun to plan a victorian kitchen :) And a heck of a challenge but for us, we'll be sure to work the lacanche in (though dh wanted the island to be a molteni LOL)

Have you seen the new AGA Pro +? 32" I love it and want to see in person. One large oven, or two smaller ones by inserting a dividing wall.

Here is a link that might be useful: AGA Pro +