Do you have dimensions of each wall/doorway & the distances b/w each? You included the dimensions for the sliding doors (6') & and the laundry/pantry (3'), but the rest.

More questions:

• This entire space needs to include the kitchen work area plus table & chairs for 6 plus bar....correct?

• Can the knee wall be removed or changed in length?

• Can any of the doorways (inside & outside) be moved/changed?

• Can plumbing be moved?

• You show a cooktop but no ovens???

• MW?

• I assume the pantry is staying in the laundry room?

REALLY think over the dw opening in the main entrance to the room. I think if you did a 24" drawer, sink base, 18" dw, and the returned to the plan at the 15" unit - it'd be a lot better.

Yes, bmorepanic identifies a major flaw. It's not a good idea to have that dishwasher or any appliance door that would obstruct the entry to the kitchen. I would be inclined to take out the knee wall to get either a table in the space between the long kitchen wall and the patio door or maybe do a peninsula that comes off the wall where in the current plan where you have the dishwasher. This way you can have a direct route to the patio door from the opening for the kitchen. Hope this makes sense---what I mean is that you have either the dishwasher or the opening to the kitchen in the wrong place.

I think we really need more information.

I'm not sure an 18" DW will be big enough for a family w/4 children...so I'd rather find a way to make it fit functionally. I hope the OP & his/her family are flexible b/c this is a very small space to try to hold everything.

Eliminate the knee wall and I think quite a bit of space will be gained b/c then you might be able to use some LR space for chair space around the table. When no one is at the table, not much space will be taken from the LR; when meals are served most likely everyone will be at the table and not in the LR. At a party, move the chairs for seating elsewhere & use the table as a "buffet" for putting out food...and now it's convenient to both the kitchen and LR.

I also wonder about the 6' sliding door...is it really 6' (the scale doesn't match)? Does it have to stay? Can it be reduced?

What about opening up part of the wall b/w the kitchen and the laundry/pantry and use some of it for the kitchen?

What is the size of the laundry/pantry?

Oh, and which is the 12'3" wall and which is the 13' wall?

So, Davids_2007, more questions!

We have four children too... I think you'll need more space for a table. I agree with the other posters that it would be nice to find a solution that utilizes the space in the adjacent room. Take down that knee-wall, if possible. We only have on eating area in our house, so our table is a multi-purpose table.. not just for food. Perhaps you could have your kitchen just be a kitchen and then have a living/eating area in your living room somehow.

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the replies. I am sorry I was away from my computer all weekend. I was not planning on using a table. I was going to make the bar area at the knee wall the primary eating area. I was also thinking of moving the DW to the other side of the sink and the stove to the other wall. The fridge and the sink have to stay where they are. I really would prefer to not move any plumbing if I don't have to. I have decided not to go with a cooktop but use a range instead. That should fix the cabinet problem of 18" and 15" I only used those because the Ikea kitchen planning tool is limited in their cabinet choices. The living room is not an ideal shape to add an eating area. 2 of the 4 kids will be in high chairs for a couple more years.

So...you're eliminating table eating completely? Are you sure that's wise? Or, are you planning to have seating on both sides of the bar area so that it "imitates" a table? I would recommend going with a table-height bar if that's the case...i.e., 30" total finished height with a 36" + knee wall width depth (36" + 4-1/2" = 40-1/2"). For 3 people on each side, it will have to be at least 6' long as well (24"/person). Which, even if that's the shorter wall (12'3"), you have enough room for it.

But, don't you think a table would be more flexible? Take down the knee wall and put in a table...they should take up the same space, maybe even less... Tables can be moved around. (We used to move ours around when we had parties to serve as a serving space. We'd move the chairs to the FR and shove the table against the wall & windows so there was more room to move around in the kitchen and b/w the FR & kitchen.)

Oh, and children grow very quickly! Before you know it, they'll be pre-teens & then teens...so plan accordingly!

(If your response is that you don't plan to be in the house that long, then think about trying to sell a house w/no room for a table anywhere!)

I just wanted to bring this up before you absolutely decide...i.e., think about the ramifications of your choice.

This is for a basement kitchen. The main floor of the house has a full kitchen and dining room already. We have moved into my parents house and we built them a full separate house in the basement. They want no table but would like a table height or counter height bar for them and the grandkids to have breakfast together and stuff like that. they love to garden and cook and want the best use of space in the kitchen. All of the other rooms are finished and we are trying to get this kitchen wrapped up before it comes time to plant the garden in a few weeks. Thanks again for the help.

Oh! That makes a big difference!

I still think the counter should be table-height (30") b/c it's easier for young children to get in/out of table-height seats w/o help and as we age it can become more difficult to get in/out of counter-height and taller seating.

Table-height seems the best for your family.